for the 25 people who played Twin Lakes Park on Sunday, what did you think?
I was able to walk with Jim in the Fall so I knew the layout before Sunday. Here are my opinions.
Legend
+-> Good
=-> Average
-->Poor
R->Righty Route
S->Straight
L->Lefty Route
#1 + I like the pin placement behind the tree. Nice throwing alley with road ob & pond ob. (R,S,L)
#2 + Can that basket be moved farther up the hill? I like the options of throwing thru differnet gaps in the trees. (R,S,L)
#3 = Takes accurate shot but very short. Maybe think about moving tee area back & putting basket farther down the alley. Moving basket back would need a change in #4 tee area. May even think about moving the tee south towards the fence. The hole would be a longer lefty hole with protected pin and a pond. (S)
#4 = Another short hole with alley & pond to left & rough to right. Nice protected pin. (S,L) If possible, move tee to the southeast making it longer. Maybe move basket from protected position down the opening.
#5 + Toughest hole on the course. Must throw up high. You will be penalized for a poor shot. (R,S)
#6 + Love the pin position under the large pines and backed by the pond. From what I understand, the tee will be tucked back near the fence line extending the distance.
#7. -- Not a big fan of wide open holes but what can you do with no trees. From what I understand this hole will be longer once the #8 pin is in it's correct location. The tee will be move farther back towards the pond & east of basket 6. I did see many shots land in the nasty rough to the right of the basket so keeping the basket close to the brush line is a must. (L,S,R)
#8 = This hole will be more challenging when the pin is located on the side of the slope. The utility road will be OB so anything that is right or short may land ob. Anything landing on top of the hill will be a tough downhill putt backed by ob. (L,S,R)
#9= Very short hole. With #8 basket moved to it's correct location on the slope, this hole should be longer. When we played it in the fall, the big tree split the fairway so you had to throw right or left of the tree. On Sunday it was to the right of the tee and was not it play.
Overall, I had a lot of fun playing this course. There is still some room to use without overlooking saftey issues. Too bad we couldn't use that walking path. It has a natural alley.
Quotefor the 25 people who played Twin Lakes Park on Sunday, what did you think?
I like the idea of moving tees 3 and 4 to the south. In the Ice Bowl configuration, tee 3 is a hyzer bail-out area from an attempted anhyzer off tee 2. If you move tee 3 to the south, you would make it a bit safer and make #3 a little more challenging. Moving tee 4 to the south would make it a bit more challenging. I think those moves would still be in keeping with the character of the course.
It is a cute, fun course and I look forward to playing it in its final configuration.
Thanks for starting this Brett.
All opinions needed!!! I will track and tabulate alll responses, including the verbal ones I received on Sunday and will post the compliation and final layout decisions (which will ultimately be made/confirmed by WWPD).
I would have to agree with Brett and Jon about Hole #3. I think a move south towards the fence would make it a longer, tougher hole; bringing the pond more into play by stuffing the basket a little further back along the path.
Clockwise 1-9 Gives Greater flexibility to layout than wild ice bowl counterclockwise edition.
examp #1 Clockwise aligns #9 pin with #1 Tee box for those of us that like to play 18.
examp#2 eliminate's all baskets from open space...
examp#3 almost 2x distance possible.
examp #4 less money out of pocket.
+
+
+
+
I will post pic if someone seconds it...
Great Job and Effort. Look forward to Wildwood In any config.
Chuck and I got together this morning at Twin Lakes and finalized the placements for teeboxes and baskets. I am very happy with the layout as well as our strong relationship with the Wildwood Park District.
We measured each hole and double-checked layouts for safety, challenge, and flow. It went smoothly because of the help Brett and Paul gave before the holidays and because of so much good input from players at the Ice Bowl.
This course will serve several levels of disc golfers: recreational, novice, junior, and amateur. It will be ideal for beginners, and more experienced players may find it useful to practice basic skills and one's short game.
Twin Lakes Park is a pocket of rustic beauty, into which a disc golf course will fit snugly. We hope that neighborhood families will use this park more frequently and discover the fun disc golf has to offer.
Twin Lakes Park Disc Golf Course
Wildwood, Illinois
9 Holes = Mach 2 New Baskets
Total Length = 1640 feet
Teepads - boxed woodchips
Hole 1: 185', level, straight, two obstacle trees near basket
Hole 2: 252', slightly uphill, open except for two trees near tee
Hole 3: 144', slightly downhill, 60-degree left curve, with pond tight on left
Hole 4: 163', level, tight path alley littered with trees, buckthorn rough on both sides, pond on left, basket slightly to the right at path crossing
Hole 5: 180', slightly uphill through trees [scrub to be removed to open alley]
Hole 6: 179', level, straight, open, basket in middle of small clump of trees
Hole 7: 167', level, straight, and open
Hole 8: 206', slightly uphill, basket on slope, near service drive (Out of Bounds)
Hole 9: 164', tee off throwing over very slight ridge downhill, across service drive, to basket in middle of plot, one obstacle tree in front of tee
I will be meeting Chuck again Tuesday to help him prepare specific requests for park board $, finalize the Tee Markers/Signs, and set dates for working and the grand opening.
More to come....
Twin Lakes Disc Golf Course Update......
Tonight I met with Chuck Martin, Paul (showed up at Wild Ice Bowl Thang), and Maureen Jekot, the Director of WWPD. Great meeting! We are on track and within budget.
We confirmed that the baskets will be Mach New 2s, sunk in 5-gal buckets of concrete and reinforced with rebar.
We confirmed that the teeboxes will be 4'x8', 6" deep, and filled with 1" of sand underneath 5" of woodchips. The teeboxes will also be built with 2x6" wood forms, reinforced with rebar.
We confirmed that the teeposts will be 8"x6"x8', similar to those at Bevier, except the diagram and hole information will be recessed in the post and covered with plexiglass, mounted flush to the post to deter vandalism and moisture damage. Chuck will be doing the initial woodworking. Jim will design hole diagrams.
We confirmed that Chuck and Jim will be creating a course sign, to be installed near the first tee, at the entrance to the park.
Chuck suggested that the teeposts have the diagram and hole info on one side and an "Ace List" on the other. Instead of prohibiting teepost graffiti, the Wildwood Park District wants to turn this common practice into a positive thing. If you get a hole-in-one, you are encouraged to write your name on the teepost's designated area. Nice touch!
We also set up a timeline - this is where we need help, so PLEASE make yourselves available AT LEAST one full day to help install this great new course:
Installation Day #1 - Saturday, April 17th
- Tees 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
- Baskets 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Installation Day #2 - Sunday, April 18th
- Tees 1, 2, 3, 4
- Baskets 6, 7, 8, 9
Rain Date/Finalization Date: Saturday, April 24th
Grand Opening: Saturday, May 1st, 2004
The Wildwood Park District has been wonderful to work with. Their enthusiasm for this project is strong. We believe Twin Lakes DGC will be a beautiful course - small but challenging - built for the enjoyment of every level of disc golfer.
VOLUNTEER LIST
SATURDAY, APRIL 17TH
Scooter
SUNDAY, APRIL 18TH
Scooter
BC
Not to rain on your parade, but do we really want to make people choose between playing league on the 18th or helping out?
I realize that most league regulars will play league on Sunday. Hopefully, one or two will give up a day and help at Wildwood, and the rest can come afterward.
Between the few events we have scheduled, weekly leagues, holidays, and other out-of-town disc golf events, there isn't a lot of choices available for work days.
If you've never helped to install a disc golf course, please consider helping out. Yep, you'll work alright, but the satisfaction you receive (plus my wife's cooking) is well worth it. You'll feel good every time you play the course.
She does make some damn fine chili.....
doubt that weekend is open for me
i want to play eau claire
and its the end of spring break
any boy scout troops in the area ?
Yep, Eagle Scouts in Wildwood. But our club needs to do the work. We want it done right.
This installation has been on the radar screen for a few months now. I'm looking forward to a lot of help that weekend! :D
how bout home depot or menards employees
Twin Lakes DGC is on track.
I spoke with Chuck this morning (he was excited about the News-Sun article) who let me know that the teesigns are progressing/nearly done. I have completed the artwork for all 9 teeposts as well.
Also, the 9 baskets have arrived!
We are getting together Monday evening to assemble one basket as an example. Brett/Mirth, can you also stop by for this? It should not take long. I would just like a technical-minded person there to ask the questions/dot the i's and cross the Ts of basket assembly. PM me for specific info.
WOO-HOO!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I should be able to. What time?
6:30
See PM
It depends what time & weather. The weather will affect what time we have practice.
Moved from "Club Meeting 3-14-04" thread....
Mirth wrote:
Jim & I had a very good meeting with WWPD tonight. The tee signs are going to look awesome! Jim's hole artwork looks very good also. I think that once the course has been installed it will be an accomplishment to be proud of.
Here's what my meager note taking skills captured from tonight, I'm sure Jim will have more that I missed as well as fill in some holes...
WWPD will have a gas auger for us to use. By the sounds of it, this ain't your daddy's gas auger either. Something about hydraulics, easy to use, $3k machine.... Anyhow, its an insurance replacement from their recent fire but they got this one with the course installation specifically in mind.
WWPD will also be delivering loads of sand & woodchips to each tee area. We'll most likely still have to move the sand & chips into the tee boxes, but we won't have to go too far to get the materials.
Speaking of tee boxes, the wood has already been cut & it sounded like Paul (?) will be assembling the tee boxes in the coming weeks.
The tee boxes will be secured to the ground using rebar stakes in the corners of the long sides. The baskets will also be double staked with rebar.
All 9 baskets have been received & one has been built. WWPD is going to put a bolt or some other piece of metal through the bottom 2" of the anchor pole to make it more difficult to break out of its concrete mooring.
So, thats it in a nutshell. Definately not as dire as the worst case scenario but volunteers will certainly be needed!
Thanks for being there Mirth.
The Wildwood Park District staff are wonderful folks who are truly excited about this project! We met at Chuck's house last night. Chuck is doing the woodworking - those teeposts are AWESOME!!! There is a recessed area into which the hole diagram and info will be secured (lexan bolted in). The 8x8 posts are bevelled and routed and look very smooth and professional. I am looking forward to seeing the large sign Chuck is making for the entrance to the course/park.
Paul is providing the rebar for teeboxes and the baskets. Each teebox will be secured twice and each basket will have 2 pieces of rebar securing 2x6 planks (screw-connected forms) into cement, as well as secured on the bottom of the anchorpiece.
This course, while small, will be a premier example of do-it-yourself craftsmanship, meant to endure many years of usage.
Please see the other thread for volunteering to help install this course. Being a part of this venture is exciting and fulfilling! Email or post with any questions! THANKS!!!!
Chuck and I met again last night.
I dropped off the final artwork for the teeposts and Chuck showed me his progress on the teeposts and the big sign. Chuck is a MADMAN!!! He highlighted the post with white paint and painted white behind where each teesign will be mounted. His $ deposit box WITHIN the big course sign is inventive, secure, and unobtrusive. Chuck's woodworking skills are masterful and his committment to this project is astounding.
Although this course will be considered small, it will be one of the most beautiful and player-friendly courses I will have ever played. See some of you on Saturday (tomorrow) morning at Twin Lakes Park for some cement pouring (see other thread).
So, I aced hole #9 today. Brett & Zach were there to witness it. There are three aces recorded at the course so far. Two yesterday, one on hole 4 and another on hole 9.
Dr Dye - It was with my orange Z Wasp
Good going Al.
Thanks Pat!
That was a sweet shot Mirth!! Nice touch.
I was also happy to shoot a perfect round of -9 for the 2nd 9 we played today.
#6 tee pad has standing water in it.
I was a bit discouraged to see garbage on the course already.
There course is getting a lot of use already so that's a positive.
After Mirth left Zach & I saw a guy pull out 3 discs from the pond. We saw 4 other discs in the pond as well. The guy said he's pulled out quite a few this week. It's a disc eater.
U shoulda asked him to go get my Beast. ;)
Re: Garbage - All three times around the course I picked up trash & every time through there was new garbage where there wasn't before. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to ask Chuck to get either some park cans out in strategic places, say every three holes, or get some small cans that attach to the tee signs?
QuoteSo, I aced hole #9 today. Brett & Zach were there to witness it. There are three aces recorded at the course so far. Two yesterday, one on hole 4 and another on hole 9.
Dr Dye - It was with my orange Z Wasp
The one with Barney dyed on it???? Congrats!!!
That was a great shot Mirth...sailed in like it was born to! I lost a Beast myself in the lake yesterday on #4...tried to throw an anhyzer, nicked a tree and it shot a good 25ft into the lake! Doh! :wacko:
Twin Lake is getting a ton of play, which is great news! Good call on the trash cans, Brett, hopefully that'll encourage folks to throw their mess away!
Congrats, Mirth!
I'll be out there saturday late morning/noontime with the wife and kids.
I will look at teebox #6 and see what can be done. It is probably mainly a settling issue.
There appeared to be a decent amount of standing water around the back of the box as well, looks like its just in a low spot.
I also lost one yesterday, my purple Champion Beast. Gonna have to replace that one! :D
Jojo - Yeah, my Barney disc.
I will update the ace gallery at DRDYED.com
Brett, Myk, Jim - I won't be at the grand opening... Going to be in Madison, got tix for Wha'd ya Know for my bday!
I'm getting containers for all the merch today, so things will be all good to go for whomever is there.
I have to work from 8 til 2 on opening day, so I won't be able to make it either. I'll try to stop by after I finish working.
I'll be there with Paul C and my family. I'll take care of selling discs. I've also printed out several dozen scorecards and flyers. Between myself, Paul, Chuck, Maureen, and Danny, we should have it all covered.
I played Twin Lakes several time this weekend. No fewer than 10 people on the course all the time. Played with T-Dogg, Dane, and Johnny V last night. Now I owe Terry dinner..... How schlepped is that? The designer loses on his own course! :P
That's OK. We had a BLAST. Always good to see my Wisconsin friends!
A coworker told me that there was a small clip about the opening in the Daily Herald.
Played this morning w/Jay - Diron, what happened to you?
Couse is holding up well, looks like WWPD went out & cleared a little more brush on 5 & put down some chips. There are 2 or 3 holes that were supposedly aced by the same three people all on the same day. I dunno if I'd believe that or not. Hole 5's ace club sign is now 1/2 used by some jerk who decided to note his ace in 3" tall letters & numbers. Also, some fan of ICP declared their love of the band on the side of 5's sign.
Hit metal on 9 again today, good times...
This sounds like an excellent place for an ACE RACE! Can't wait to play on Saturday.
Looking forward to seeing everyone out there tomorrow morning! Let's just hope the rain holds off! :blink:
Sorry mirth, slept in.
Managed to make it out there at 2:00 and played 18.
Hit the basket on a hyzer on hole 1 with my wizard, hit the top of the pin of 8 with my roc, and hit off the bottom of the basket on 9 with my wizard...
All in all a good day for ace runs :) I really enjoy playing this course it is great great practice. Too bad it started to rain or I would have played another 18, I love how fast this course plays
Kinda upset I can't be there tomorrow but I'm sure it'll be a good time
We'll miss you, Diron!
I know Paul, Danny, Jay, and I will be there. Anyone else?
Supposedly 40% chance of showers most of the day, high of 58 degrees.
Talked with Chuck tonight; we're all looking forward to tomorrow.
Club members: Please park in the driveway/near the garages off the street. This will allow more parking for other attendees and local residents. :-) Thank you!
Jay will be selling merch, and he laminated a bunch of info from various websites as educational material for people. I also made several dozen copies of a custom Wildwood Disc Golf InfoPak, and am bringing some used discs for people to use.
Perhaps we'll be able to do one or two BagTag rounds and a two-disc Ace Race. Come on out and have some fun!
Jim, Sergio and myself will be out there around 11 or so. Are there any good greasy spoons around to get a breakfast near there?
rain rain go away come back another day
WOOOOO-HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
What a GREAT day! No rain, bunches of disc golfers, good food, a few aces . . . . . what could be better?
Twin Lakes Disc Golf Course in Wildwood in now OFFICIALLY OPEN!
Thanks to Jay for coming out and selling merch (discs sold well) and offering lots of great information. You were the energizer bunny of disc golf infomercials today, dOoD! Thanks also to Paul Christensen, Shawn (congrats on your ace), Sergio, Danny, Nate, and Todd for coming out and representing DISContinuum in a fun and positive way!
Thanks also to the local residents of Wildwood who have been so very positive, welcoming, and supportive for the most part. Yes, we will run into some issues with some unhappy residents, but I believe that the course is going to be fine right where it is for now. This whole project has been a wonderful learning process.
SUPER-HUGE THANK YOU to the people of the Wildwood Park District!!!
Chuck, Maureen, Paul, and Steve have been such a JOY to work with. It cannot be said enough. I wish you were my neighbors. Thank you also, on behalf of the club, for the generous donation. Your satisfaction is our true reward. We hope you get many good years of low-maintenance usage out of your investment. (Players, please remember to pay your non-resident $1 per day fee at the main course sign - thanks!)
We had nearly 60 people stop by and either play a round or simply get information about the game and new course. A bunch of them came by after we had already dismantled the event HQ. Lots of kids, teens, and families played today. We were interviewed/photo'd by the Daily Herald, Lakeland Press, and another agency I missed. An article is supposed to appear in tomorrow's Daily Herald. Keep an eye out.
This was the most fun I've had in a while. EVERYONE had good things to say about the course and club. Keep playing Twin Lakes. Maybe a league will get started. Maybe cement tees will be added. The future is what YOU make it..................
^_^ ^_^
Here is the story from the Daily Herald
http://www.dailyherald.com/search/main_sto...sp?intID=381094 (http://www.dailyherald.com/search/main_story.asp?intID=381094)
cool!
QuoteHere is the story from the Daily Herald
http://www.dailyherald.com/search/main_sto...sp?intID=381094 (http://www.dailyherald.com/search/main_story.asp?intID=381094)
The article is on page 3 of the Sunday Herald.
....with a pretty cool picture of danny and paul's sons john and bill (ol' cousin bill)...
:D
I think things like this would be pretty nice to include on the webpage somewhere (Club News?).
It shows that the club is involved in the community. I don't know how long the link will stay active, but I'm sure the article itself can be copied and pasted. May even the actual article from the paper could be used also, for "history" of what the club has done.
Just an opinion.
QuoteI think things like this would be pretty nice to include on the webpage somewhere (Club News?).
It shows that the club is involved in the community. I don't know how long the link will stay active, but I'm sure the article itself can be copied and pasted. May even the actual article from the paper could be used also, for "history" of what the club has done.
Just an opinion.
We can post a link, but you can't republish an article without permission.
Would someone in the area be so kind as to get me a copy of this newspaper for teh club records? I'd appreciate it much.
You're right, Jon. Wasn't thinking about that stuff.
QuoteWould someone in the area be so kind as to get me a copy of this newspaper for teh club records? I'd appreciate it much.
I have a copy that I got ya know since my name is in there twice and all :D
I'll see if the WhiteHen still has one, if not you can have mine :D
Jay - keep yours. Myk, I picked one up yesterday.
QuoteQuoteI think things like this would be pretty nice to include on the webpage somewhere (Club News?).
It shows that the club is involved in the community. I don't know how long the link will stay active, but I'm sure the article itself can be copied and pasted. May even the actual article from the paper could be used also, for "history" of what the club has done.
Just an opinion.
We can post a link, but you can't republish an article without permission.
And I think posting a link would be problematic as it appears that the Daily Herald only keeps a week's worth of content on their site... :-/
I contacted the Daily Herald. They are sending me info about republishing the article. I will post more when I recieve the info.
Played 27 this afternoon. Ran into Brownie, Luke, and some other guy I didn't know. At one point I counted 20 people on the course, and that was not being able to see if anyone was on holes 1-4!
I played the course today. It was really nice. Definitely good for the short game. I grew up playing ball with my friends at Twin Lakes. It was nice to be able to go back and use the ol' place. Anyway, you guys did a great job! I was looking at the description for the TLP course and noticed that the directions were a little off. It said Tollway 294 when it should be 94. And just a little fyi, you cannot exit onto 120 if you are on 94 going east/south (towards Chicago). If someone was coming from Wisconsin or travelling down 94 from the north, they could exit onto Rte 21 (Milwaukee), take a right on Gages Lake Road, take a left on Hunt Club, take a right onto 120 and take that to Mill Road. Just a suggestion. Of course, once 21 is no longer under construction, you will be able to take that to 120.
http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-st...-04-294070.html (http://www.pioneerlocal.com/cgi-bin/ppo-story/localnews/current/gr/05-13-04-294070.html)
I will be at the Park District Board meeting to help answer questions and discuss options.
There is supposedly another article today in the Lakeland Press, Gurnee edition. If someone sees a copy, can you pease get me a few copies? THANKS!
Played nine today, there were 4 or 5 other groups out playing at the same time.
WWPD put up a sign on #1's tee post reminding nonresidents of the $1/day rule.
#6 tee completely submerged.
No litter seen, new trash can by #5 basket.
I think that Wildwood could reclaim some of the expense of installing the course by coming up with some sort of season pass... Maybe $40 or $50 upfront & you get a laminated card that doesn't expire till Jan 1. I know I'd pay it, I bet others that live nearby but not in Wildwood would too.
I realise this is last minute, but any disc golfers who are able to attend the wildwood park district meeting please do! The course needs a showing of support tomorrow night.
The meeting is at 7PM, at 33325 Sears Blvd, Wildwood.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searc...&submit=Get+Map (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=search&countryid=250&addtohistory=&country=US&address=33325+N+Sears+Blvd&city=Grayslake&state=IL&zipcode=60030-2158&historyid=&submit=Get+Map)
what day is it on?
This meeting will start at 7pm at the WPD Hall in Rule Park.
Other items are on the agenda, but the disc golf discussion may dominate the evening. I am told that MANY people will be there (residents), and maybe a person from the press, and that this meeting may go past 10pm.
Please bring a POSITIVE attitude, and solid examples of local benefits disc golf can bring to a community. This park is in the front yard - IS the front yard - for about a dozen residents. We need to remember that they live there; we just play there. :-)
I have compiled a decent arsenal of information in infopak, articles, demographics, written testimonials. I have also spoken to several major disc golf personalities and received some good advice.
We also need to respond to their concerns directly about:
-parking
-zoning
-educate the public and help them work through the stereotype of disc golfers being dope-smoking teens with sweaty angst.
-graffiti
-glow rounds
-non-residents paying their $1
-educating the kids in proper play/etiquette
-trash & maintenance
Please dress/act appropriately for this meeting as we need to present ourselves in the best possible light. Those residents are not the enemy; they are our neighbors. :-) THANKS.
Quotewhat day is it on?
tonight
Tuesday, May 25th @ 7PM will be a special meeting at the Wildwood Park District offices concerning the fate of the disc golf course. The park board seems to want to keep the course as much as is possible, but ultimately if making it go away will create peace among the neighbors then so be it.
PLEASE come out next Tuesday to Rule park on Sears Blvd and show your support for this course!
WILDWOOD PLAYERS PLEASE READ:
There have been 7 newspaper articles about the Twin Lakes DGC over the past 3 weeks in various local papers.
Most have been negative. The residents of the small community have been voicing their concerns about:
-vulgar language
-public drinking
-public drug usage
-public urination
-destruction of private property
The Wildwood Park District monthly Board meeting was a hot place to be last night. The residents were pretty reticent about the course being removed because of alleged incidents since its installation. They cited safety as the main issue, but trying to keep the park "private" was a big concern. The park is public, but the residents don't want it that way and will be vocal and active until the disc golf course is altered or removed.
IF YOU PLAY DISC GOLF AT TWIN LAKES PARK, PLEASE BE COURTEOUS. PLEASE DON'T LITTER. PLEASE DON'T PARK ILLEGALLY. THE COURSE WILL MOST LIKELY BE REMOVED - AND SOON - IF SOME BAD BEHAVIOR DOES NOT STOP.
Although I believe most of these issues existed long before disc golf came to Wildwood, the residents live there - we just play there. They and the WPD will decide the fate of the course. Right now, the proposed solution will be to remove 2 holes, making it a 7-hole course. The objective here is to keep the course, but to remove any possible safety issues and issues about discs landing on neighboring residents' private property, as well as to make the course unattractive to non-Wildwood residents. The second choice is to remove the entire course and sell the equipment.
Please spread the word about playing courteously. If a neighbor confronts you, please be respectful. Please take some POSITVE action so that the course can remain.
The next WPD Board meeting is a continuation of the chaos which occurred last Tuesday night - next Tuesday, May 25th at 7pm at the WPD Meeting Hall. Email me (Jim Klem) for more info or directions: klemrock@earthlink.net. Please come out and be a positive influence. THANKS!
I can only think of two articles in the news lately that have been negative, both ran the other day. What else has there been?
I am extremely dissapointed. I spent about 12 hours to help put in a 9 hole course. Not a 7 hole course and not no course at all. I don't think I could make the drive up to Wildwood by 7pm, but its probably just as well. I might blow a gasget when these neighbors think they get to decide all on their own what is going to happen to public land. I would not have volunteered those hours to put in a 7 hole course. I would not have volunteered those hours to not have a course at all. PHHHBBBPPPPTTTT!!!!!!!! :blink: :wacko: :angry:
edited for typo--jb
How would you suggest we address the situation / concerns of the neighbors around the park? I'm not terribly thrilled at the prospect of cutting two holes or pulling the whole thing completely, but 3 short weeks after the grand opening there is a clamor for its disassembly.
I think a large amount of blame for the current sitation being so bad can be directed towards the 16-22 year old demographic... I'm not saying all in this group is to blame nor do I think that any of the people we usually play with have done any of the negative things, but the people you tend to see running around with little respect for private property, public urination in plain view of others, littering, loud & foul language, etc... tends to fall in here.
I know I certainly have been guilty of most if not all of this 'way back when'.
I'm also sure that some of these things have happened in the park prior to the installation. However the disc golf course has been a more powerful magnet than anticipated and this is the fallout of that. Increased traffic on the road = less parking around the park = increased traffic in the park = increased incidents of foul language = increased littering = increased presence of alcoholic beverages in the park.. the list goes on and on.
The neighbors also can't understand why people would want to play disc golf in the middle of the night, too...
Jim - I'd say the residents were anything BUT reticent in sharing their feelings and opinions the other night.
A player I talked to tonight said a homeowner across the street confronted him the other day. He asked him if he was a resident of Wildwood. This guy said " no, I paid my $1.00." Instead of arguing with this guy, he took off.
I think it would've been a more appropriate time to address the installation of this course before it was put into the ground..
QuoteI think it would've been a more appropriate time to address the installation of this course before it was put into the ground..
Hindsight being 20-20. I assumed that when Wildwood asked for help that this was something that THEY WANTED!
And it is something the parks dept wanted... The homeowners had advance notice of the course's planned installation too. Chuck hand delivered 50 IB2k4 flyers to neighboring homes.
Your confrontational homeowner was most likely mr or mrs cerrano.
Designated parking area would be a fine start for Disc Course Patrons.(otherwise known as young aggressive males)
Parking is available on Mill (parkside). Keep players from parking in front of playground. Between Houses and Playground Equip make it a problem for obvious reasons.
Larger problem is design. The playground is in conflict . Parking Conflict, Hole #1 Conflict, Walk through conflict from #9 to #1, Player conflict sitting in and around playground equip. Also the Course Sign/Kiosk is too dominating. Move it.
Suggestion...
TWIN LAKES GREAT IDEA keep the course but reconfigure it.
Take Playground out of the picture. Place Kiosk on other side of bridge. Start # 1 Clockwise from approx #4 tee box and go from there ending up in amost same spot for #9 Basket from #3 tee area (approx) ETC.
Kids could play on Playground and never know a disc player was there.
I would be happy to show layout to any one interested in Keeping 9 at Twin Lakes.
Why don't you post your proposed layout here, or bring it in person to the next park dept meeting?
posting here would be better, so everybody can familiarize themselves with the possibilities...
The course was designed for low-impact, neighborhood usage. Neither I or the Wildwood Park District ever dreamed that such a small course would be played so frequently by so many players.
The WPD is open to - but not in favor of - spending more money to re-do the signage. Their budget is VERY limited. Even if I donate the graphics again (which I have committed to), it would still cost to reprint and remount the big sign.
The WPD is funded through taxes of residents of Wildwood. The residents live there, we just play there. If the residents cannot be persuaded to allow the course to stay in some form, it will be pulled. Although I am heartbroken that the course will probably be pulled or at least reconfigured to fewer baskets, that is not our decision. We really have no input, except to offer suggestions on how to placate the residents. the Wildwood Park District Board of Directors will decide; I will abide by whatever decision they make.
Some of the residents who were at Tuesday's meeting are VERY serious about this - to the point of being a major liability to the park district. That one angry resident can cause a world of headaches for the Park District. And the Park District does not consider this course important enough to wage war (or to pay a lawyer a ton of money to defend). The WPD Board and its funding come from the community and serve their community, not our disc golfing promotional interests
sounds like the course needs a ranger
someone to enforce the rules
my 2 cents
increase pay to play from 1 to 5 bucks
allow only 4 on a hole at once (like in regular golf)
sign in check in type thing
which is more expensive to do ?
take the course out or hire a starter/ranger
how about spy cams on all the holes
"excuse me " yes we saw you rip out that baby tree on 5
oh that wasnt me check the video
you could just put up signs saying the course is being monitered
it sounds like the one resident who is leading the charge
has had issues with disc going into his yard - when he expresses his
problem with it - the golfers tell him to bite it
obviously the open drug and alcohol use is a concern but once some
dumb ass is put in jail for it that could help
sounds like the local police need to bring their dogs out to the park
i think it would be a BAD thing to take out the course
especially since i havent had a chance to play it
open communication is the key
my look on similiar issue (this is just MY commentary not necessarily the absolute truth/facts )
when joliet west park added the extra holes on the wheeler pavillion side
notice that long walk from 8 to 9 (3 holes were taken out due to complaints)
residents were upset because THEIR park was being used by disc golfers
several of these residents were DOG walkers, that side of the park was used
exclusively by the residents to walk their dogs (arent there lease laws,
laws that say pick up your dogs waste, and the issue of what happens if your unleased dog bites a kid )
the residents were upset that THEIR park was now being used by other people
ok heres another instance
the field behind the kids school is used for soccer, on any given m-th in sept and oct the place is a madhouse there is zone parking on the west side of the street for the residents but the perimiter of the field is lined with suv and minivans
the residents of this block dont like all the traffic, noise and the such from the activities i got to a game late and parked in the zone area and started to go to the field crazy older lady starts screaming at me "you cant park there !!!"
you would have thought that i was killing someone the way she was screaming
i said yes i can park there, i did and if i get a ticket from the police so be it
and i kept walking
not all the residents around this open field are like that but what ive noticed
is that the field used by kids to play in is the residents dog pooping area
the residents walk their dogs here and dont pick up after themselves
"ive lived here so many years and thats the way its been so im not going to change what i do regardless of the consequences"
so where s the old lady screaming at dogs pooping and the owners not cleaning up ?
in chicago there are lease laws and pooping laws
are they really going to get enforced ?
it seems as though the residents dont like that THEIR park is being used
for something else (disc ) their ammo is the results of disc players (language, smoking , drinking) how can anyone not see their point when its there for all to see
open level headed communication is key (sounds like the one guy got into it with case toting. one disc chucking, 8 in a group yahoos )
I told Brett that if the course gets pulled, the first thing we should all do is grab a Skill Shot, go out there and play a round. ;)
sounds like a good bag tag challage
I think policing the park or installing even basic outdoor lighting is way outside the range of realistic possibilities.
By removing the course, the WPD can make back some of its money by selling the equipment and also placate the complaintants at the same time.
By altering the course (removing holes), everyone's probably going to be sufficiently satisfied, but the WPD leaves itself open to further hassles, even liability.
By leaving the course unaltered, this could go on forever. The WPD has had its share of legal battles in this neighborhood, and is understandably gunshy. Also, besides Mirth and myself, there was the one resident proponent, and one neutral resident. When the Board asked for a raising of the hands of whether the course should stay or go, it was tremendously one-sided.
Man, I hate to sound so very bleak and beaten, but I'm just trying to state the situation as objectively as possible.
I played Wildwood twice this weekend. Both times, there were 6 people on the course besides myself. They were newbies, quiet, friendly, and having fun. A few wondered what all the fuss was about. And, all but 2 were Wildwood residents. After spending over 50 hours at Twin Lakes Park, from July to May, I have not witnessed anything worse than a few loud f-words. That makes me think that our good conduct has had a positive effect on some newer players.
Perhaps the best thing (besides playing on SkillShots - nice, Jon) that can be done if the course gets pulled is to make sure the baskets have a LOCAL place to go.
If you can, please come and support the course this Tuesday at 7pm at Rule Park on Sears Blvd in Wildwood. If you can't, go and play a round soon!
QuoteI think policing the park or installing even basic outdoor lighting is way outside the range of realistic possibilities.
By removing the course, the WPD can make back some of its money by selling the equipment and also placate the complaintants at the same time.
By altering the course (removing holes), everyone's probably going to be sufficiently satisfied, but the WPD leaves itself open to further hassles, even liability.
By leaving the course unaltered, this could go on forever. The WPD has had its share of legal battles in this neighborhood, and is understandably gunshy. Also, besides Mirth and myself, there was the one resident proponent, and one neutral resident. When the Board asked for a raising of the hands of whether the course should stay or go, it was tremendously one-sided.
Man, I hate to sound so very bleak and beaten, but I'm just trying to state the situation as objectively as possible.
I played Wildwood twice this weekend. Both times, there were 6 people on the course besides myself. They were newbies, quiet, friendly, and having fun. A few wondered what all the fuss was about. And, all but 2 were Wildwood residents. After spending over 50 hours at Twin Lakes Park, from July to May, I have not witnessed anything worse than a few loud f-words. That makes me think that our good conduct has had a positive effect on some newer players.
Perhaps the best thing (besides playing on SkillShots - nice, Jon) that can be done if the course gets pulled is to make sure the baskets have a LOCAL place to go.
If you can, please come and support the course this Tuesday at 7pm at Rule Park on Sears Blvd in Wildwood. If you can't, go and play a round soon!
This is a real drag, and I know everyone involved has done a ton of work on this entire project, and while I've been feeling vaguely guilty that I wasn't able to contribute, justified (to myself) only on the basis on being so far away from the course - even Bevier is a haul for me - and using the excuse that I'd probably never play Wildwood (except for the Ice Bowl) and that my schedule never allowed me to get up their and put some sweat in anyhow...
[/run-on sentence]
I have to ask:
My impression was that the WPD was *completely* supportive of this entire endeavor... wasn't this project presented to the 'neighborhood' to begin with??
If it had been 'vetted' with the residents, what the h** are they complaining about??
I think the two root issues are that the neighbors are reluctant to give up their 'private' park, and that nobody imagined the amount of traffic it has seen in the four weeks since the installation.
There's hope that after the newness goes away the volume of players will decrease slightly, but who knows if it will....
I blame the Internet. ;)
Or the press, of which the club's had a decent amount of mentions within so far this year.
QuoteI blame the Internet. ;)
or Bill Clinton...
blame canada
Bush
WPD Board meeting tonight at 7:00pm.
Please attend if possible! Looks like there will be a little more support for keeping the course at tonight's meeting. A few more resident-proponents will be there; also a verbal report from the Lake County Sheriff's department may be included (no evidence of criminal activity cited).
If you enjoy Twin Lakes Disc Golf Course, please support its future tonight.
If you enjoy the growth which disc golf has experienced lately, please support our efforts to retain the disc golf course in Wildwood.
Directions: Take Rt. 120 (Belvidere Rd.) west (west of 294, west of Hunt Club Road) to Sears Blvd. Turn North on Sears Blvd., go 1/3 mile into Rule Park, where the meeting room is located.
I had planned on being at this meeting to show my support, unfortunately my sister and brother-in-law are flying in for a surprise visit. SURPRISE!! We're having a family cook out that if I miss would get me disowned, so I have to be there. Sorry.
I'll be there
^_^
I cannot make it tonight. Our baseball banquet starts @ 5:30 & probably won't be done until at least 8:00.
something tells me we'll still be there...........
The Wildwood Park District has decided to permanently remove Holes 1 and 9 next week. This will eliminate many of the concerns voiced by residents of Wildwood. They wil also post notices asking players to improve their behavior or risk losing the entire course. Tee Box #2 will be moved closer to the basket to eliminate damage to the trees. Tee Box #8 may be moved slighty as well. The remaining holes will remain intact.
The Board understands that the safety and traffic concerns are a mix of actual issues and fiction, but needs to weigh them against potential liability. Although it really saddens me to endure such dramatic nonsense, I support the Wildwood Park District. They are good people - volunteers - trying to do the right thing for everyone (even those with ratings of 859). :P
So get out and play Twin Lakes Park while it is still a 9-hole facility. Take your kids, friends, cousins, and grandma out to Wildwood and have a good round. Show the residents how much fun this sport really is. Some local residents can still discover disc golf and use the course for what it was designed for - casual, recreational, healthy FUN.
And ignore Jim Centano if he comes outside and confronts you, if you can.
That's disappointing that a fun, family course will be shortened due to a few unruly players ruining the course for everyone else. As a resident (but not a homeowner) of Wildwood, I'm sad to see the course shortened and hole #2 going from a great anyhzer to a simple straight shot. I am glad, however, that the Park District seems to be supportive of the course and is doing it's best to keep it in the ground. If only more Park Districts were like the WPD!! Many thanks to all the volunteers to helped put the course in, please know your efforts are appreciated!
[/QUOTE]And ignore Jim Centano if he comes outside and confronts you, if you can.
Quote
is this the guy who has all the complaints ?
sounds like he needs to come out and PLAY with some club members
Yes, he's the driving force behind all this.
Becky, Maddisen and I will be at Wildwood around 11am on Saturday, May 29th to play a couple of rounds. Enjoy what we built while it is still there. If anyone wants to join us, feel free (or actually pay a $). :D
danny, patrick, and i will be there aout the same time.
what bagtags do you guys have?
This is the 3rd time i've heard of this guy confronting players on the course. He had no idea who I was yestarday. I pulled out the phone & told him I was going to call the cops for harassment. He left me alone.
Here is an e-mail I got today. I have also talked to another player who was bothered by this guy.
"I don't know what affiliation you have with it but i have a question you
might be able to answer. The other day me and some fellow frisbee golfers
went to check this new course out, but when we arrived a man walked out of
his house across the way to tell us this is a private course and only
wildwood residents can play here and they still have to pay a dollar. now
in fear of this @$$hole calling the cops or towing our car we left. Now
what's the deal with this? is the old man right? or is he just bitter
they put a course in front of his house?"
when are the holes being pullled ?
is it feasible to play here and fairfield ? ( to lazy to look at map)
or any other suggestions for me to play
any water in this area that would affect my travels
its a little bit of a hike for me but since i got tuesday june 1 off
i might come play (almost now just to spite the guy)
i just want to confirm that this [span style='color:green']chicago south side irish resident can
pay a buck to play [/span]
im thinking ill bring the camera and add the course to my
airspuds photos on yahoo
The best thing we can do is to ignore any argumentative people, even some area residents, especially Mr. Centano. He is inconsistent in his statements and argumentative. His seems volatile. Please do not engage this man. Other neighboring residents are not combative and a few have expressed willingness to discuss the issue.
Holes 1 and 9 will be removed after the Memorial Day weekend, so play the course now. It flows well and you can play 9 holes in 20 minutes if the course isn't busy.
Floodwaters from the DesPlaines River have receeded a bit, and most roads are open. The best route right now is to take the tollway up to Rt. 120 West to Mill Rd, north on Mill to Twin Lakes Blvd, east 100 ft and parallel park. Please do not park on the asphalt - do not park in the lot on the east end of the park.
Please pay the $1 fee per player per day. Although it seems silly to pay for a course which is being shortened, it will make a difference in the long run, as evidence that disc golfers are honorable. If we do not pay the $1, that's just another reason for the residents to want to yank the course out.
I have found that we should enjoy what we have, throw well, and allow the Wildwood Park District to handle the situation. One angry neighbor can become a huge liability for the Park District, and any incidents can escalate things to really bad levels. If that happens, say goodbye to the course. It is not a matter of "fighting" the residents. We need to keep educating people, playing courteously, and having fun. Getting right back in someone's face will only get the course yanked - and quickly.
Thanks for the support and for using common sense when playing disc golf anywhere. See y'all Saturday.
QuoteThe best thing we can do is to ignore any argumentative people, even some area residents, especially Mr. Centano. He is inconsistent in his statements and argumentative. His seems volatile. Please do not engage this man. Other neighboring residents are not combative and a few have expressed willingness to discuss the issue.
very sound advice
didnt mean to sound combative
im sure several club members feel this way (let it be)
even with the frustration involved
you know us southsides are a loving people
my friend bill and i thought we would come up and play
lol
Hope all of you who played the entire course as originally designed liked it. As of today (at least, maybe yesterday) hole 1's basket has been pulled & a 'hole closed' sign placed on the tee sign.
QuoteHope all of you who played the entire course as originally designed liked it. As of today (at least, maybe yesterday) hole 1's basket has been pulled & a 'hole closed' sign placed on the tee sign.
What happened to next week?!?!?!?!?!?!? Well, I'll have my basket tomorrow so I can play the course one last time.
That sucks. Its raining hard here, so we'll play Wildwood tomorrow or Monday. I guess the "possible" in "as soon as possible" just got sooner.
oooohhh weeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllllll................................
Played Wildwood twice this past weekend and met Chuck from the WPD out there. He seems to be a quality guy and was disappointed about removing holes 1 and 9. Sad to see them take out the two holes, but I suppose 7 holes is better that none!
Is #9 now out?
Yep, holes were removed to eliminate potential problems. Nip it in the bud, so to speak.
Tees 2, 6, and 8 will be moved next weekend.
Wow, as if I didn't know they were removing the holes....
When I played the course on Friday hole 9 was still in.
I thought the tees for 6 and 8 were going to stay where they are now, with 6 becoming a double decker teepad... elevated so to speak, with more wood chips to alleviate the flooding issues.
Hole 9 was in yesterday, but they could have moved it today. Where are they moving the other tee pads? I heard they're moving 2 so it's not behind the trees, which will totally ruin the hole.
yes, hole 2's tee is being moved in front of the trees. far enough in front as to not disturb the roots.
Good to know 9 hasn't been removed yet. I know Chuck was going to pull #1 to start and wait to see if complaints drop.
Complaints have not stopped, even though any physical proof of bigbad stuff continues to allude WPD eyes.......
Chuck asked me to help re-evaluate some tee placements, possible future moving of holes. Actual moving happens Saturday morning (tentative)...... It would be nice if a few guys could make it........
Jim, please don't take offense, but I don't think I'll be able to make it. I have a problem spending an entire afternoon helping to install something because someone asked me to do it, and then spending another entire afternoon destroying the work I did less than 2 months ago because someone else doesn't like it. This park disctrict asked us to help on behalf of the people. They asked us to put this in! I refuse to help pull it out.
I think we all know that certain neighbors of the park will refuse to shut up until the course is pulled. I don't want to be a pessimist but I think its only a matter of time....
QuoteComplaints have not stopped, even though any physical proof of bigbad stuff continues to allude WPD eyes.......
Chuck asked me to help re-evaluate some tee placements, possible future moving of holes. Actual moving happens Saturday morning (tentative)...... It would be nice if a few guys could make it........
I'm not going to help dismantle it either. Lame 7 hole course, 0 hole course. Whatever. Obviously WPD commitment is to a few people who don't like living next to a park (why they moved in next to a park is a good question) rather than to disc golf. And that's fine, but they aren't going to get any help from this disc golfer to take apart what was a decent 9 hole course.
experience tells me that
"kill em will with kindness"
can work
sometimes when dealing with a particular
jerk type trader , i try to kill em with kindness
i got clients who will cry ass about the littlest things
sometimes you got to suck it up and do something you dont want to do
thats LIFE
pesrsonally sat the kids got a soft ball game and im going to RUSH at the tweeter center (this being planned since tickets went on sale)
sunday the kids got a game again
is the term passive agressive correct
if we still show suport for the course even when its being pulled
the message might just get to the residents
and could be seen as a reward in the eyes of the WPD
wouldnt chuck be impressed if more people showed up to help
better the situation than the initial install
i would also feel a little bitter if i had donated my time and effort
to install only to see it go away 2 mos later
again thx for all the hard work that was done earlier in the
year to all involved
I am a BIG guy, but I guess I'm not that big emotionally or that strong of character. I'm bitter about the whole situation and volunteering to dismantle the course isn't going to make me feel better about it. I won't be in this state this weekend, but no matter what day this were to happen, I don't think I'd be willing to do it.
--edited for typo--again--
It is a tough situation and I hold nothing against Chuck or you, Jim. Everyone had the best of intentions going into this. I was under the impression that the WPD donation was in recognition of the volunteer efforts to install the course. Have the neighbors put in some work to change it! ;)
QuoteI understand your feelings, guys, and am not about to start casting judgments...Stop being crybabies and either help out or give back the undeserved money. Act with integrity.
I'm glad you aren't casting any judgements. :D
The only comment I'm going to make about any of this is a reminder that many of the would-be volunteers will be playing in a certain C-tier tournament just North of the border this weekend...
QuoteThe only comment I'm going to make about any of this is a reminder that many of the would-be volunteers will be playing in a certain C-tier tournament just North of the border this weekend...
And the other one is going to be playing/running a B tier in the state that shall not speak its name.
& I can't play either. I'll be at my sister wedding in Bloomington.
Poof! The evil moderator strikes
boooooooooring
QuotePoof! The evil moderator strikes
Sometimes I wish I had your power :ph34r:
QuotePoof! The evil moderator strikes
Excellent call. ;)
QuoteQuotePoof! The evil moderator strikes
Sometimes I wish I had your power :ph34r:
The power is mine to give and take at will.... What, do you want to be a moderator for any given forum? I'd be happy to grant your request. All I'd ask for in return is your soul! Muwahahahahahaaaaa!!!! (http://www.rafansrule.org/ubb/graemlins/firedevil.gif)
Take it :D
So, you just delete what is too harsh to hear?
Unbelieveable. Not even one swear word was used.
Just delete all posts that contradict your lies and self-grandizing bologna.
This is how you demonstrate integrity? Just make sure my name is off ALL the paperwork. I no longer want to be associated IN ANY WAY with this club ever again.
No, we didn't delete them. They were moved, at club members' & Brett's request, to a less public part of the board.
Lies? Self-grandizing bologna? Well, if thats true then we learned from the master.
Don't worry about the paperwork, all that can be changed will be. Yet another reason why we'd be unable to return the DONATION from Wildwood - Its expensive to file the forms, thank you for that.
Now, if you want to continue this tirade I suggest you do it with the other flames and not in the public eye.
This is a possible Nine Strategy for Wildwood. Take Playground and Front of park out of sightlines Put action on the corners. This adds much more distance than you have now. Wildwood Park District can handle any heat and forget charging anyone to play. Park Districts are for Parks Period They are not Open Space Preserves. Residents must pay something or Non Residents can not be charged. Step back and let the Park District do their job. Get uninvolved 100% if you do not live in Wildwood. If you live in Wildwood Support WWPD and their decision to make some thing work out here. The number marks the Hole and tee area. This is an approx grid and works very well here. If it came down to a decision on a great looking 7 hole course or a not so great looking longer 9 hole course what would you decide ?
I can tell you for sure that hole 8 would not work because of the baseball diamond's proximity. Hole 6 would be questionable due to its following the bike path....
I definately give you an A for effort, however...
I like your plan better than the 9 that we put in, but when Jim was designing it they said they didn't want him to use the path. Also, I think you would have bad problems with number 3 because a hyzered out shot is going to hit the house that is over there or go in the back yard.
Mirth, Myk, & I atteneded the Wildwood Park District meeting tonight. On behalf of DISContinuum we presented the WPD with the DISContinuum Stamp disc that all club members signed & attached it to a plaque that had an engraved tag. The hot topic of disc golf has seemed to calm down in past months. No angry residents at the past 2 meetings.
Basket #4 stolen from Twin Lakes Park in Wildwood on November 13th.
Wildwood Park District is offering a reward.
Please contact DISContinuum or myself with any information. Thank you.
-Scooter, klemrock@earthlink.net
Bad news regarding Wildwood, this came from Chuck @ WWPD:
Quote
Brett,
Hope all is well with you and the club. Just wanted to share some sad news regarding the Wildwood course. Between the 15th and 16th of June we have had (4) more baskets stolen. With the one last fall that's 5 of 9 gone. I suspect that unless they are recovered, we will scrap the course. We have filed a police report, removed the remaining baskets, and obviuosly closed the course. We will discuss options at our Tuesday Board meeting. Personally, I've had about enough. If you would be kind enough to "spread the word", we would greatly appreciate it.
Sad & dishartening news to say the least. Its never good to hear that a course is likely to be removed.
If anyone has any news or tips regarding any of the 5 baskets stolen from this course in the last year, please don't hesitate to contact the club, the Wildwood Park Department, or the Lake County Sherriff.