Club Meeting
Immediately after Best Shot (Approximately 1:00PM)
Pizza Hut
Intersections of Sunset & Lewis
Waukegan, IL
Agenda
1. Twin Lakes Park, Wildwood, IL-> Update
2. Hole C Bridge-> Estimated Material Cost & Date
3. OB Rule Change @ Bevier for Leagues.
4. Krispy Kreme Fundraiser
5. Finances
6. Hole sponsorship @ UW Parkside Prairie Open Discussion
7. Junior League/Family Workshop
8. Other topics?
Junior League/Family Workshop
- After talking to many people about this, I think I have a new formula which will enable more people to get introduced to disc golf without severely impacting the schedules of volunteer members. I'd like to discuss all ideas on this subject and either get something going soon or pass on it until next year.
Don't forget, club meeting this Sunday.
Allan S., Myk D., Diron B., Jon B., Maddisen B., & Brett C. in attendance.
1. Twin Lakes Park, Wildwood, IL-> Update
All installation information is posted on the calendar-> http://discontinuum.org/forums/index.php?a...vent&eventid=67 (http://discontinuum.org/forums/index.php?act=calendar&code=showevent&eventid=67)
There were concerns about installation. What resources will Wildwood Park District be providing? Will they have a bobcat or any other machinery to help move materials such as sand & wood chips. Do they have machinery to dig the holes for the basket? Is 2 days a realistic goal to get all this work done if those are not provided?
2. Hole C Bridge-> Estimated Material Cost & Date
On hold due to Waukegan Park District. More deatils in the future.
3. OB Rule Change @ Bevier for Leagues.
This was defined more specifically to leagues and tournaments at Bevier.
This was my first post to the board members. We want to know what club members think.
1. Out of bounds for # 4, 13, 22 & #5, 14, 23, & #1, 10, 19
The out of bounds rule @ Beiver for leagues & tournaments have been played-> anything that comes to rest totally on the curb is in bounds. Over the past year i've seen several terrible shots that skid/skip on the road (McAree) and find it's way totally on the curb. I was one of them yestarday.
I would like to see the rule changed. Any disc that comes to rest totally off the grass is OB. I think the current rule for #1, 10, 19 is anything that is in the gravel is not ob. If it is completely on asphalt it is OB.
The grass would be in bounds. Anything completely out of bounds would be out. Thus making the curb and gravel out of bounds unless the disc is touching the grass.
This rule change would decrease the risk of having anyone injured. Playing on the curb & gravel is not safe due to the heavy traffic in those areas. Players will throw over the road but it may discourage them if the are consistently throwing bad shots & getting penalized for it.
2. Mando for #21. (Tournaments Only)
During tournaments players have the option to throw an anhyzer down # 4's fairway or take the hyzer route down #2's fairway.
With players using the fairway #22 to #4's basket, there is a potential problem. This causes slow play & can be dangerous. I suggest we put a ribbon on the first tree left of #2's tee pad @ our tournaments and make it a mando to take the hyzer route. If someone misses the mando, #2's tee pad would be the drop zone.
What do you guys think?
The Board will make a decision at a later date.
4. Krispy Kreme Fundraiser
Discussed and removed from agenda.
5. Finances
Allan has this info.
6. Hole sponsorship @ UW Parkside Prairie Open Discussion
Discussed and decided to wait for a vote at a later date due current club financial status.
7. Junior League/Family Workshop
Skipped
8. Other topics?
Leftover 02Blast Merchandise. It was discussed that maybe the leftover merch could be used @ the HPC Memorial Weekend or even shipped back to SunKing. Brett will continue to sell merchandise when possible.
Brett may attempt to put together a local high school competition in the fall of 2004. Format TBA.
Allan discussed an opportunity for the club to sell Gateway Discs. There would be no up front costs. It was decided to wait until club finances are calculated.
We also discussed using a new club logo. Diron & Sergio have created some new one logos that are posted on the message board.
What else did I miss?
Sorry I couldn't stay for the meeting; personal biz and overtime at work took priority.
1. Twin Lakes Park, Wildwood, IL-> Update
They will provide a post hole digger and either a bobcat or several wheelbarrows to carry chips etc. We need to provide manpower and shovels and rakes. By the time Installation Wwwkend is here, all baskets will be in cement, ready to sink. Wooden forms also may already be made, ready to put into teeboxes that we will dig on that day.
Is 2 days realistic? Yes, if people show up to work.
I've sent the first of 3 emails regarding this. I have posted it a 6 weeks ahead of time. There is no excuse for people not to show up to work those days. I believe it is reasonable. I have a more detailed work list which i will post later which outlines exactly how we will accomplish this.
2. Hole C Bridge-> Estimated Material Cost & Date
This will cost us nothing. I'm not sure how this will turn out, but the Club is not expected to produce any money or labor for installing a new bridge.
HOWEVER, we still need to dismantle the old one. I'm aiming for Saturday morning again.
4. Krispy Kreme Fundraiser
Does this mean the fundraiser is scrapped? if so, why? I thought it was a good idea for fast cash.
5. Finances
Mirth, yes, the $1013 was correct, but I thought we had paid on the account since then. I also thought you or Brett spoke to SunKing and clarified that some things on his Blast list had not been sent and therefore we should not be charged. Plus, that 1013 did not take into account the Orbies and other stoick we have, so the "worth" value is quite less than $1013. At least that's what I remember. Fill me in please.
7. Junior League/Family Workshop
I'd ike too transform this into a 1-day event. 2 workshops: Disc Golf 101 (2 hrs monring) and Disc Golf 102 (2 hrs afternoon). July 17th. The WPD is OK with this idea. It will cost participants nothing. It will cost the club nothing. We need to decide this soon because the WPD quarterly brochure is scheduled for printing in 2 weeks. If DISContinuum doesn't want to be a part of it because of time or volunteer issues, I'll do it solo.
Quote4. Krispy Kreme Fundraiser
Does this mean the fundraiser is scrapped? if so, why? I thought it was a good idea for fast cash.
It was skipped & removed since it's been discussed at the January & February meetings with no progess. Are you still planning on following thru on this? If not, it will be removed.
Sorry, but I do not have the time to do this. Wish I did. Can someone else? We all agreed it was a good idea, yes?
Quote5. Finances
Mirth, yes, the $1013 was correct, but I thought we had paid on the account since then. I also thought you or Brett spoke to SunKing and clarified that some things on his Blast list had not been sent and therefore we should not be charged. Plus, that 1013 did not take into account the Orbies and other stoick we have, so the "worth" value is quite less than $1013. At least that's what I remember. Fill me in please.
Perhaps the next time you run a tournament you should do business with someone who has the club's best interests at heart rather than someone who is just out to make a buck for himself. Looks to me like you guys made a decent profit on the Illinois Open and got ripped off on the Blast.
Quote5. Finances
Mirth, yes, the $1013 was correct, but I thought we had paid on the account since then. I also thought you or Brett spoke to SunKing and clarified that some things on his Blast list had not been sent and therefore we should not be charged. Plus, that 1013 did not take into account the Orbies and other stoick we have, so the "worth" value is quite less than $1013. At least that's what I remember. Fill me in please.
My numbers did not take into account whatever retail value of the merch, I was just looking at it from the 'how much did this cost us?' point of view.
We haven't sent Sun King a check since mid December & my math took that into account. The numbers are real, we really do still owe him that much.
There has been no contact with Mike regarding any discs that weren't shipped but we were billed for. Frankly, this should have happened within days of receiving the merch & not seven months later. If we send him a message about that now I wouldn't be surprised if he laughed at it. I will contact him about sending back the orbies & other discs we feel won't sell easily.
Don't you mean the 'worth' value should be
more than $1013, rather than
less? I don't understand that sentance....
QuoteSorry, but I do not have the time to do this. Wish I did. Can someone else? We all agreed it was a good idea, yes?
We all thought is would be a pretty good fundraiser when brought up. Out of the 6 that attended yestarday, everyone was under the impression you were coordinating this fundraiser. No one disagreed to not doing the fundraiser, but no one volunteered to follow it up either.
Can we realistically sell at least half of the certs purchased in order to make our money back?
Quote1. Twin Lakes Park, Wildwood, IL-> Update
They will provide a post hole digger and either a bobcat or several wheelbarrows to carry chips etc. We need to provide manpower and shovels and rakes. By the time Installation Wwwkend is here, all baskets will be in cement, ready to sink. Wooden forms also may already be made, ready to put into teeboxes that we will dig on that day.
Is 2 days realistic? Yes, if people show up to work.
I've sent the first of 3 emails regarding this. I have posted it a 6 weeks ahead of time. There is no excuse for people not to show up to work those days. I believe it is reasonable. I have a more detailed work list which i will post later which outlines exactly how we will accomplish this.
That is great to hear there will be a post hole digger. Is it manual or gas powered? I hope it's a bobcat because using wheel barrows to fill each tee pad with sand and 5 inches of wood chips may take all weekend alone.
I would have to disagree and say no. 1 weekend is not enough time to do all that work. Going strictly by number of attendees at work days last year, a number between 4 to 6 in attendance should be expected. Any more would be a bonus. Don't forget, we lost one worker that was allergic to work but didn't do any work :D .
Bruce, hindsight is always 20/20.
Mirth, yes, that's what I meant. Sorry. If memory serves, there were 3 or 4 discs he billed us for that we did nnot receive. I thought I noted them on the master list I gave to Brett with the first box of discs. I will double-check to see if the list is still in my pile of stuff.
Brett, when the KK Fundraiser was brought up at the 2nd meeting, I said that I'd appreciate someone else picking up the ball, cuz I had no time. I hope someone does find the time, because it is a worthwhile idea. If not, oh well.
Also, about Wildwood: if only 6 people show up, then screw it. I have been talking about this and posting and emailing like a madman. There is no excuse for a club member not being there. No, the post hole digger is manual. Wildwood does not have lots of money or equipment or manpower. That's why they asked if we would be willing to help design and build this course. There should be no surprises about how much work there is to be done. We can do it if 12 people show up both days.
People - especially club officiers - who are allergic to work should show up and work anyway because that's the right thing to do.
BTW, I did post initially about rescheduling the Bevier work day on March 6th and made a new post about it on March 10th (which was less than 24 hours after the California tourney was officially posted by Bruce). I am truly disappointed that 7 people showed up for a tourney but only 4 members showed up for a work day. Also, Chud has not been a member for 2 years now but has helped at more work days than most members. All the negativity I'm hearing about "that can't be done" is BS. WE are the only ones who CAN do this!!!
Heard back from Sun King. He confirms the total remainder due matches my math.... Also, the 22 orbies he originally sent were on a separate invoice. The orbies wholesale @ $11/ea, since we now have only 15 orbies left in stock we owe Sun King $99 for the difference.
Oh yeah, he said he'd take back whatever we don't want w/o penalty. So now we need to figure out what we don't want to keep in stock...
QuoteOh yeah, he said he'd take back whatever we don't want w/o penalty. So now we need to figure out what we don't want to keep in stock...
We can sort thru it. Definitely the DX Leopards can go back :D .
:)
Too bad we can't send back the X-out putters, but they came direct from innova.
QuoteAlso, about Wildwood: if only 6 people show up, then screw it. I have been talking about this and posting and emailing like a madman. There is no excuse for a club member not being there. No, the post hole digger is manual. Wildwood does not have lots of money or equipment or manpower. That's why they asked if we would be willing to help design and build this course. There should be no surprises about how much work there is to be done. We can do it if 12 people show up both days.
People - especially club officiers - who are allergic to work should show up and work anyway because that's the right thing to do.
BTW, I did post initially about rescheduling the Bevier work day on March 6th and made a new post about it on March 10th (which was less than 24 hours after the California tourney was officially posted by Bruce). I am truly disappointed that 7 people showed up for a tourney but only 4 members showed up for a work day. Also, Chud has not been a member for 2 years now but has helped at more work days than most members. All the negativity I'm hearing about "that can't be done" is BS. WE are the only ones who CAN do this!!!
I don't think being realistic is being negative. If you are expecting 12 people to show up, you are expecting too much. Past #'s have proved that. If 12 do show up, it would be a big positive.
When the installation was first discussed, I expressed interest. I think it's fantastic that a new course is being designed and installed. I also expressed concern of how much & what was expected out of the club to install the course.
I was once told this. When planning, always plan for the worst case scenario. What happens when only 4 to 6 people show up? Is the answer "then screw it"?
This was posted by me July 1st 2003 when this issue was first brought up in the Club Officials Section.
The proposal looks fine. I did not see any problems with it. It looks very nice!!!
Will there need to be any trees or brush cleared?
Also, does the WildWood Park District have a crew that could help out? Do they have a bobcat or equipment to dig holes or move wood chips around?
I may tweak the time it takes to complete the course by twice the amount of time. I just don't see 4 people completing this course in that amount of time.
Nice work Jim!
QuoteAlso, about Wildwood: if only 6 people show up, then screw it. I have been talking about this and posting and emailing like a madman. There is no excuse for a club member not being there. People - especially club officiers - who are allergic to work should show up and work anyway because that's the right thing to do.
Brett and I brought up the possibility of the Wildwood course being too much for our club to handle right now based on attendence of the Fairfield clean-up days. You said that if you didn't get any support from the club you were going to go ahead and do it yourself. If you need 12 people to show up both days then maybe you should have had a sign-up sheet or something so that you knew there were enough people committed to do this. There are only 3 officers plus you and Paul now, so if you are counting on all of them to be there, that's only 5 people. And which one of you guys is allergic to work? You have made it perfectly clear that I am not welcome at your work days, Jim, and I am respecting your wishes by not attending.
Some members always show up to work. Great!
Some members occasionally show up to work. Fine!
Some members never show up to work. Not acceptable.
We have 26 current members. If we get only 45% of them to show up, we'll do fine. If they don't, then those who do show up will have a heavy burden of doing the same work with fewer people. Plus, we'll have to utilize the planned "extra" work day on the 24th.
Since the Wildwood Park District has told us that they are going to donate XXX amount of money to the club, we should make sure club members are going to be there to do the work. If we don't get the job done in the required timeframe, I do not think we have any right to expect a donation of any sort.
Yep, I took the lead on this project. But we all knew about it, we all agreed to it, and we even talked about making some meetings and work days mandatory for officers. There is no reason members should not show up for these 2 days, unless pre-planned personal business is happening. Both Mirth and I have bad backs. Paul has a major heart condition. Yet we all show up at EVERY work day at Bevier (most of Round Lake's too).
So now we need to get more members out there. I am using emails, flyers, website, message board, and phone calls. If officers and members can help generate some interest and commitment, we'll be fine. We CAN get 12 people on Saturday, and 12 people on Sunday. We CAN. We MUST. We WILL...............
And guess what: In 6 weeks, we'lll have another course to play on. One that WE designed. One that WE built. That is the coolest thing a club like ours can hope to achieve. Can I count on everyone's support?
Jon, I said nothing about the 'allergy' thing since we discussed our differences. Today, I said those with allergies SHOULD show up.........
The reason I started DISContinuum was because the other local club didn't care about the Ams and didn't care about taking care of the courses. I wanted to be a part of a group of people that DID care. I thought we had that group in DISContinuum, but now it seems some people are more interested in pointing fingers, saying 'i told you so' after the fact, and just playing instead of helping take care of the courses.
I still believe we can and will get lots of people to help!
QuoteAlso, about Wildwood: if only 6 people show up, then screw it. I have been talking about this and posting and emailing like a madman. There is no excuse for a club member not being there.
So are you proposing making it mandatory for all club members to contribute some amount of time to helping install this course? I don't remember that being stipulated when I joined as a member. I recall this being a volunteer organization. Everything done on a volunteer basis.
As far as being upset that more people played a round than worked on Bevier, you're right. It sucks! A few people do a ton of work for the course while others just play it. Do we have to do all the work on Bevier though? No, not really. As I recall, the WPD layed out woodchips for us last year and we didn't have any problems. Why are we doing it this year?
Jon, I started a volunteer list on March 3rd.
BC, no, I wasn't suggesting making work days mandatory. You're right; this club asks members to volunteer time and money sometimes. It is never mandatory. But with such low turnouts, I think it is time to put the squeeze on some members who don't show up to help much. We at least need to let them know the NEED for volunteering.
The Wkgn Pk Dist has never spread woodchips for us. They've always just dumped them on one hole or another, which is fine. It has always been me and other volunteers who have spread them out.
Maybe some members simply don't realize how much time and energy a few of us have been donating. Lets see....... In 2003, I worked at:
3 Fairfield work days @ 4 hours each time = 12 hours
3 Bevier work days at approx 5 hrs each day = 15 hours
Twin Lakes - 10 hours, plus another 5 hours designing the layout at home using blueprints. OK, 12 + 15 + 10 + 5 = 42 total volunteer hours. Oh yeah, and i don't get compensated for running tourneys either, which can take up to 40 hours planning time.
Others have done a LOT as well, but I can't speak for them 'cuz I don't know specifics. But that is what a club like ours is all about. The Callahan family LOVES what we do at Bevier. They have no interest in playing, or time to volunteer. They gave a ton of cash a few years ago. DISContinuum uses that cash (through the WPD) to improve disc golf at Bevier. We built a relationship with the Callahans and the WPD. Wildwood saw this. Wildwood spoke to WPD about us specifically. We have a great reputation because a few people work their butts off. Now we need to ask/beg/plead for members to come out and help for 2 days. Fine! I'll beg! As long as we get Twin Lakes Course in the ground, I'll do whatever it takes to make sure we act with integrity and follow through on our committments.
QuoteJon, I started a volunteer list on March 3rd.
Well then, if I am welcome again at your work days, then me and my usual work ethic will be there on Saturday April 17th. I'll probably come by on my way home from leagues also on Sunday.
QuoteAs far as being upset that more people played a round than worked on Bevier, you're right. It sucks!
I don't think it sucks. Bruce, Brett and I planned on getting together before that work day was planned in order to take a look at some possible safari holes. We decided to make a bag tag and posted it before the Bevier work day was scheduled.
Last year Shawn kept promoting an event that was on the same day as a pre-scheduled club work day. I said something about it and was chastised because Shawn was promoting a good disc golf event. Whatever.
Jon, let me start by apologizing. I'm not chastizing anyone for anything. Jim was right though, it did suck to be there and not have enough people to do work. It's not your, or anyone elses, that no one showed up for the workday. It just sucks that no one showed up, that's all. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough in the first post.
Children, play nice.
Jim - Thanks for all your hard work putting together this new course plus everything you've done in the past.
In fact, thanks to everyone who's ever volunteered to help out at a club event, leagues, workday, park meeting.... Without the continued support of our volunteers we wouldn't be half as good as we are today.
The only thing I'm going to comment directly towards these exchanges re: Wildwood is that one should always plan for the worst case & not the best case. We all know that provided we have the proper equipment & enough volunteers this course can go in over a weekend. We also know what our past turnout of volunteers has been.
Some people just like to play & not do a lot of work. That's fine in my book. What we need to do is find out how to motivate our current and past members to the point where they want[b/] to volunteer. We can't make anyone do anything....
QuoteJon, let me start by apologizing. I'm not chastizing anyone for anything. Jim was right though, it did suck to be there and not have enough people to do work. It's not your, or anyone elses, that no one showed up for the workday. It just sucks that no one showed up, that's all. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough in the first post.
I'm sorry also. We're cool.
I for one plan on renting a powered auger if one won't be available. I've used manual post hole diggers back in my boy scout days & those things suck for digging holes for anything larger than a large fence pole!
Food for thought - We should prolly notify the diggers' hotline just on the odd chance there is a power, phone, or gas line buried near where we're working.
Thanks for the support Jon. I'll move the list to its own thread and possibly put a link in the news page on the website.
I'm not chastising either. I just want everyone to know the need for lots of help on April 17th and 18th in Wildwood. Any help in spreading the word is greatly appreciated!
Mirth, you are SO SMART - I didn't even THINK of things connected to digging. I'll mention it to Chuck tonight. Oh yeah, gotta go! :D
Yup, see you there!
Okay, hopefully this thread will die soon after this reply.
Jim & I had a very good meeting with WWPD tonight. The tee signs are going to look awesome! Jim's hole artwork looks very good also. I think that once the course has been installed it will be an accomplishment to be proud of.
Here's what my meager note taking skills captured from tonight, I'm sure Jim will have more that I missed as well as fill in some holes...
WWPD will have a gas auger for us to use. By the sounds of it, this ain't your daddy's gas auger either. Something about hydraulics, easy to use, $3k machine.... Anyhow, its an insurance replacement from their recent fire but they got this one with the course installation specifically in mind.
WWPD will also be delivering loads of sand & woodchips to each tee area. We'll most likely still have to move the sand & chips into the tee boxes, but we won't have to go too far to get the materials.
Speaking of tee boxes, the wood has already been cut & it sounded like Paul (?) will be assembling the tee boxes in the coming weeks.
The tee boxes will be secured to the ground using rebar stakes in the corners of the long sides. The baskets will also be double staked with rebar.
All 9 baskets have been received & one has been built. WWPD is going to put a bolt or some other piece of metal through the bottom 2" of the anchor pole to make it more difficult to break out of its concrete mooring.
So, thats it in a nutshell. Definately not as dire as the worst case scenario but volunteers will certainly be needed!
Thanks for that reply. That pretty much addresses my concerns. With that equipment and matierials being delivered close to each tee, the work is much more manageable.
Pardon me for not interpreting too well, but are the tee boxes going to be wood-chipped or concrete?
Reason I'm asking: We had a hell of a time pouring the concrete pads at Parkside. We had the volunteers, but not necessarily volunteers who have poured concrete or knew how to "finish" concrete. We had pads settling before we could finish them. There's definitely a need for manpower if this is the case. I'll do my best to make it down there.
Don't mean to stir up anything more...just a concern from a past experience.
QuotePardon me for not interpreting too well, but are the tee boxes going to be wood-chipped or concrete?
Reason I'm asking: We had a hell of a time pouring the concrete pads at Parkside. We had the volunteers, but not necessarily volunteers who have poured concrete or knew how to "finish" concrete. We had pads settling before we could finish them. There's definitely a need for manpower if this is the case. I'll do my best to make it down there.
Don't mean to stir up anything more...just a concern from a past experience.
Sorry, didn't know I wasn't logged in.
Woodchips on the pads for right now.
To expand on that, I believe its going to be 5" of woodchips on top of a 1" layer of sand. I'm not entirely sure, but I think that's covered in the course thread.
The concrete pads at Parkside were TOUGH! :wacko:
I was inexperienced with concrete, but learned fast.......... :P
Yes, Mirth is correct.
Teepads will be 4'x8' x 6" deep. 2x6' planks will be screwed together to make the form. The long sides will be rebarred into the ground for stability.
There will be 1" of sand as a base with 5" of woodchips on top.
The top of the teepad will be flush level with the ground.
If the course gets frequent use, no vandalism, and positive marks, it is possible that the teepads will be upgraded in the future (to crushed limestone perhaps).
Thanks.