Hey guys/girls,
Now that I've joined the PDGA, I'm trying to find weaknesses in my game that I can approve upon in order to become a better tournament player. I was a big sidearmer (righty) for the last few years, and could barely throw 30 feet backhand. I really like my forhand shot and topped out at about 375 feet. Backhand, however, would allow me to throw on those holes where the hole placement is to the left. Once perfected, it also should allow me to throw 400+ feet.
I've been practicing for about a month now. I'm just trying to get some muscle memory. My routine consits of 100 throws on hole three at Adler. I picked this hole, because it forces me to be acurate with at least 250 ft of distance. I've also been watching Scott Stokley's instructional videos (which I highly recommend) as well as some of the different World and USDGA tournaments. Both have been very helpful, and I'm currently throwing with some accuracy about 275 feet.
Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated. I don't have a problem with the mildly overstable discs (Wildcat, Flash, Crush etc.), but I'm having problems throwing ROC's (and other midrange discs) withouth them turning over too much. I noticed that in the USDGA Championships, most of the players use midranges on the first hole (straight down the middle 275 feet thru rows of trees). It looks like they release on a hyzer angle with good spin. Some of the prettiest throws to watch....they float with a soft but solid anhyzer and then straighten out and land within 10 feet of the pin. I long to get that shot into my "Disc Golf Shot Portfolio".
Curious to hear what you guys/girls have to say.
sounds like you pretty much know what to do. practice. keep that up and you will continue to improve vastly, especially when the weather gets nice again next spring.
I did the same thing with Rocs at first. I tried to over muscle them & they'd turnover. You need to work on not overthrowing & find a smooth release. Once you figure it out, you'll be really surprised how far they go. I practiced throwing a putter for distance. Once I got the hang of that I moved to a Roc.
QuoteOnce perfected, it also should allow me to throw 400+ feet.
If one could honestly perfect the backhand throw, they would be able to hit a straw 650ft away, everytime..
Cannot be done!! :lol:
What grip are you using? If your flipping Rocs without wind - especially new rocs, then you are probably putting to much torque on the disc and not enough rotation
QuoteQuoteOnce perfected, it also should allow me to throw 400+ feet.
If one could honestly perfect the backhand throw, they would be able to hit a straw 650ft away, everytime..
Cannot be done!! :lol:
What grip are you using? If your flipping Rocs without wind - especially new rocs, then you are probably putting to much torque on the disc and not enough rotation
What does it mean to put torque on a disc?
By definition, if you put more "torque" on a disc, it rotates faster. That is what torque is: a force that causes rotation.
Pardon me, almighty Jon :rolleyes:
While I don't fully understand why I'm responding to that, Let me correct myself to appease the Vice Pres... :lol:
He may be applying too much off-axis torque, which is having a negative effect in the rotation of the disc. I'm sure you knew what I meant but decided to be a lameo. It causes inconsistant shots/forces usually overstables discs to burn.
I know, because I did it alot before I climbed over the 900 mark
QuotePardon me, almighty Jon :rolleyes:
While I don't fully understand why I'm responding to that, Let me correct myself to appease the Vice Pres... :lol:
He may be applying too much off-axis torque, which is having a negative effect in the rotation of the disc. I'm sure you knew what I meant but decided to be a lameo. It causes inconsistant shots/forces usually overstables discs to burn.
I know, because I did it alot before I climbed over the 900 mark
What is your problem, Diron? I did NOT know what you meant, that's why I asked. Perhaps Bruce can explain what off-axis torque is. It doesn't help my game to just hear words thrown out, I need to know what they mean also.
If he is haveing a "off-axis torque," not a word I hear everyday there are discs out there that will correct that, you will have to experiment to find one that works for you.
If you want to be a better bh player, do what Brett said... work on throwing a putter straight... left and right. You should be able to make a disc do what ever you want. When you get the hang of it, you should be throwing that putter over 275 easily. Move up to a midrange do the same thing and then go to drivers.
This is the fastest way to learn the game and learn what you do wrong.
If you torque off your axis too much you'll tear your peroneal ligament. Careful out there!! :o
You don't know what torque is, Jon?
Correction Dan
Tear the sheath which holds the peroneal tendon in place, doh :)
Doug
Check out - http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/technique.shtml (http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/technique.shtml)
Great site that offers some great information on how to improve your game
I got yer off-axis torque right here... B)
I'd have to agree with Shawn and Brett about using a putter to learn how to properly throw. It's better to know how to get the desired shot you want as opposed to straight out distance.
I had the same problems with Rocs and still do. I've taken the easy way out and throw Spiders, since they seem to take more torque without turning over. One thing that you can work on is attempting to slow down your arm speed, while still snapping the disc. This is what I have noticed from playing with advanced/pro players who throw the Roc. The only difference between a 100 ft. Roc shot and a 300+ Roc shot is their arm speed.
Just keep practicing and you will get it.
if u have figured out how to throw accurately 275 feet, then i would like to know too. please share. i have been playing a while and have no clue.
QuoteI got yer off-axis torque right here... B)
W-h-e-r-e?
:)
QuoteYou don't know what torque is, Jon?
Correction Dan
Tear the sheath which holds the peroneal tendon in place, doh :)
I thought maybe torque was the what caused rotation, so your first post didn't make immediate sense to me. I still have no idea what off-axis torque is. I'm always trying to learn about the mechanics of throwing.
by off axis torque do you mean the flutter or wobble sometimes seen on release of some drives?
Thanks guys that's a lot of good advice. I will work on throwing a putter with minimul off axis torque. My first step will be to figure out what off axis torque is.
It's alot easier to show an example of off-axis torque. Or could just use common sense to figure it out, or even the dictionary!!
I asked Blake (wwww.discgolfreview.com) if he had any videos but he said no..
Sooooooooooooooooooooo
ax·is
A straight line about which a body or geometric object rotates or may be conceived to rotate.
torque
The moment of a force; the measure of a force's tendency to produce torsion and rotation about an axis, equal to the vector product of the radius vector from the axis of rotation to the point of application of the force and the force vector
I would bet money this is why your flipping Rocs
I'm having bad flashbacks of my college physics courses!!! :o
you went to class ?
In body.
I went to the third hole at Adler to practice with the advice I got from you guys. I threw six Aviars and one ROC. I worked on low speed throws, and was able to keep about 5 out of 7 in the fairway on a consistant basis. I was still quite a bit short of 250 feet (I was hitting between 200 and 225 consistently), but I was happy with my progress. I actually encountered the opposite situation as I mentioned earlier in this topic. I am now having a hard time turning the discs over. I seem to get a little turn over at the beginning, but for most of the distance the discs are hyzering. I know now that I need more spin to get them to turn over for a longer period of time.
Any advice?
Your problem is very similar to what I had going on. I would turn them over a lot because i'd over muscle them. I then tried to change my form & was "babying" them. Basically I was throwing them without the power & very gentle. They would hyzer the whole way. Try to throw them hyzer so they flip up flat. It will take a while to figure out that angle. You still have to throw them with a lot of power but work on that clean smooth release at the same time. Hope this helps.
By "throwing them hyzer", I assume you mean release them at a hyzer angle. That way I can put a little more speed on them, and they should turn over for a longer period of time.
Thanks Brett. I'll try that as soon as the weather allows.
QuoteBy "throwing them hyzer", I assume you mean release them at a hyzer angle. That way I can put a little more speed on them, and they should turn over for a longer period of time.
Thanks Brett. I'll try that as soon as the weather allows.
Yes, throw them with hyzer angle and with good power. They should pop flat and ride a long ways straight. My orange putter will pop flat and stay straight the entire length of it's flight. It's fairly beat up. My white putter is super beat and will turn into a sharp anhyzer. It's perfect for hole #15 at Fairfield. One thing that improved my game this year was playing catch with a putter. At Worlds we played catch every day to warm up before rounds. It improved my putter throwing tremendously. I play catch as much as possible now.
Thanks Brett. Do you consider an Aviar a putter? I use one as my putter.
QuoteThanks Brett. Do you consider an Aviar a putter? I use one as my putter.
Yes, I use all 175G Aviar Putt & Approach for all putter upshots & putting.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on January 05, 2005, 08:33:48 AM
QuoteBy "throwing them hyzer", I assume you mean release them at a hyzer angle. That way I can put a little more speed on them, and they should turn over for a longer period of time.
Thanks Brett. I'll try that as soon as the weather allows.
Yes, throw them with hyzer angle and with good power. They should pop flat and ride a long ways straight. My orange putter will pop flat and stay straight the entire length of it's flight. It's fairly beat up. My white putter is super beat and will turn into a sharp anhyzer. It's perfect for hole #15 at Fairfield. One thing that improved my game this year was playing catch with a putter. At Worlds we played catch every day to warm up before rounds. It improved my putter throwing tremendously. I play catch as much as possible now.
I've been working with Kira on the hyzer flip downwind with understable lightweight stuff for added distance. Last night we had light tailwind breezes and she was throwing a 150 Surge. Her best throw was 330. If you can teach something physical, she's a quick study.
Here's a visual of what off axis torque is:
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t146/MDR_3000/lotsofthings029.jpg)
The white line represents the angle of the disc and for a clean throw, your arm should follow that angle all the way around your follow through.
The red line reprents the off axis torque. If you keep the disc on the angle that the white line is on, but your follow through follows the red line, you're yanking the disc off line and causing it to turnover.
Hope that helps.
Ah, that is a nice visual. Without knowing what off axis torque is, I would have just called that yanking the disc if it was unintended and artificial turn-over if it was on purpose. People have been trying to explain to me for a few years on the message board what off axis torque was and I never understood. Now I do. Thanks!
Hmm, I really need to take some video of myself throwing to see if this is one of my many problems. Great picture and explanation.
Gotta get Z's on a disc to fly straighter and longer; choice of disc and condition makes all the diference too; most of today's discs do not fly striaght, but a few I have recently picked up are great; the Discraft esp Meteor mid range is my disc of choice for staright shots 230 up to 330 or so. I always used Aviars for the past 15 plus yrs. until recently picking up a Ching; no more Aviarws in my bag now as the Ching flies straighter and can steer it either direction predictably with backhand approaches from 75 to 200 ft or so.