(ideal stollen from the PDGA boards)
Okay loyalists out there help me spend money and inform me of what has changed since I last played.
Pick your company of choice: Innova, Discraft/DGA, Gateway/Quest and list the 3 or 4 drivers you do or would carry of theirs, in what plastic, and why!
Feel free to bash other's silly brand allegiances and offer your own recomendations!
Surge, Flash, Pred and Buzzz. I throw the Buzzz for a driver on short holes and holes where accuracy trumps distance. I'm throwing the Thumb Grip Z Surge for a turn over driver and the ESP Surge for a stable driver. The Flash is my big D driver, especially in neutral wind. The Flash is also my lefty stable driver.
I have nothing against Innova. But I can spend the same amount of money and get twice as much Discraft. Kenny can get a job. He and his team boys don't need four of my dollars for every disc I buy.
Star/Champion Orc, Star Wraith, (have a Champion but haven't tried Star) Firebird. Beat champ Orc tailwind/turnover, slowly progressing to Firebird.
Although my bag is weird. All Innova drivers, all Discraft mid-range (if you count XL as one), and Discraft putter.
Drivers in my bag....would be primarily Innova I guess. Orc/Teerex/Sidewinder/Starfire.
Teerex for the bombs where the fairway isn't too narrow.
Orc for distance where more accuracy matters.
Stafire for 365 straight and a 40 foot hyzer left at the end.
Sidewiner for my turnovers.
My bag is probably 80% Innova/20% Discraft but the 20% Discraft makes up for probably 50% of my shots outside my putts (Aviar).
This isn't out of brand loyalty, but all 4 driver molds I carry now are Millennium. I've tried and tested just about everything out there and these just work the best for me. Noticeably better than anything else I've tried.
Exp1 - Wind, super overstable.
Q and S OLF (Orion long fade) - Long teebird basically. Really long and really controllable and accurate.
S and M OLS (Orion long straight) - Hyzer flip, S curve bomber.
Polaris LS - Control/fairway driver.
mine is sorta like aren's I use innova drivers (wraith, firebird, orc and valkyrie) and then i use discraft mids (three buzzz's and a wasp) but i use the Aviar
I throw Innova exclusively; but I did start out chucking XL's and the old Eclipse for distance at Lippold. They helped me gain distance and form, but as time went by I was just not improving my consistency because the Discraft plastic at the time would beat-in almost instantly. Enter the Cheetah and the KC Gazelle. This is when I began to S-curve drives and gain confidence; and because I could rely on the Innovas flights, disc golf became a shitload more fun. That being said, my go to driver is the Wraith. Pro plastic when I need extra glide, and Champion for a straighter shot. Tee Rex for headwinds. For accuracy you can't beat a Star Teebird; holds any line even with a lot of snap. The Teebird TL is good for long tunnel and turnover shots; a nice beat CE will make turnover shots easier. Of course, Firebirds are a given and first run Starfires(made a 360 foot ace on #9 @ Streamwood with a now departed dank 1st run) are the bomb!! But hey, everyone is different and you should throw what best fits your needs.
I've been throwing Innova discs ever since I started playing, so I'm not too familiar with the offerings from Discraft/Quest.
My current drivers of choice are:
175g Star Wraith for distance/accuracy
174g Champ Orc (worn) for tailwind/wide open drives
167g Champ Beast for hyzers/turnovers
167g S JLS for shorter drives that require accuracy
The JLS is probably the only non-Innova disc I throw, and oddly enough it's one of my favorite discs ever. I started throwing it when I found one years ago and I fell in love with the disc. Since then I'm on my 5th JLS (lost the other 4) but I can't live without it. So easy to control and to throw dead straight when you need it.
I am thinking about trying out the Inferno DT from Quest and see how it compares to the Wraith/Beast. If I can get more distance out of it, I may just keep it.
The JLS is an Innova disc. Innova made the mold. Innova injected the plastic into the mold. Innova stamped it. Millenium sells it but it is Innova made.
Quote from: bruce_brakel on May 04, 2007, 02:19:16 PM
The JLS is an Innova disc. Innova made the mold. Innova injected the plastic into the mold. Innova stamped it. Millenium sells it but it is Innova made.
Who designed it? Wasn't Millenium bought by Innova? I've never been totally clear on their relationship.
Millennium is a partnership between Circular Productions AKA John Houck & Innova.
When Millennium started in '94-'95, Innova was taking a PR beating from guys like Scott Stokely because of the quality of the Innova DX plastic. At that time it was just Innova plastic since it was the only kind they used, and it wasn't as good as todays DX. In other words, it blew! Discraft was making inroads into Innova customers with their Cyclone plastic, which was far superior to Innova's plastic.
Cyclone plastic sold for the same price as the standard Discraft plastic because the belief at the time was that no one would pay more than $ 7-$ 8 a disc, so premium plastic at a higher price would never sell. Millennium was essentially Innova's way to test the the "better plastic at a higher price" idea. I'm not sure how Houck fell into the mix. I do know he was installing Innova Discatchers all over Texas at the time, so they already had a business partnership. Anyway, that is why the Omega is made from the small bead Aviar mold, the Sentinel from the Cobra mold, etc. Innova makes the molds, makes the discs, stamps the discs and until recently sold the discs. Houck did the promotions, sponsored players, etc. Now you order the discs from Millinnum so there has been more of a separation recently from Innova. But Innova still makes the discs.
Millennium was really successful at first. The Polaris LS & Omega Supersoft were huge sellers, and the Aurora MS sold very well. But once they proved that premium plastic would sell, Innova moved on to KC Pros and CE plastic. Discraft soon came out with the Elite Pro line, and Millennium sort of lost it's steam. Now there are so many discs on the market it is impossible for clubs and brick and mortar stores to carry the full selection of discs, and small lines like Millennium are the easiest to stop stocking. Millennium has some good discs, so I hope this new arrangement works out for them.
I throw a mix...DX Valkyrie for big open holes, Z XS for woody straights, STAR Beast for in-betweens, ESP Surge and Z Avenger for windy or hyzer curves.
Mids are a mix as well...Z Wasp, Champion classic Roc, DX Stingray.
I guess I'm more a Discraft man, but my bag doesn't say that.
Main drivers are:
Stable Wraith for a predictable finish and some head wind
Beat in Tee-Rex for a flex shot and no wind, this disc seems to be less nose angle sensitive for my style of throwing.
Beat-REally Beat Pro Wraith for a long turn over or tail wind shot.
Champ. Leopard when I need a straight shot w/o a head wind that is around 375'
KC Gazelle when I need a stronger leopard. (I may be moving to a TL, since the KC Gazelle is out of production)
I must agree with Tenny Shimo Fan, use what suits you the best and you can control . It is worth giving up 20 feet for accuracy, unless you are going over a lake.
SE Teebird, 3x JK Pro Champ Valkyrie, First Run SOLF
I've been throwing around alot of discraft/dga lately and am very impressed with the consistency in flight from plastic to plastic. I think as i retire/lose my current discs i will be replacing them with discraft/dga. the only discs that will be hard to replace are the roc and Valkyrie. but i think if i throw some more discs i can find a replacement for the Valkyrie.
QuoteI think as i retire/lose my current discs i will be replacing them with discraft/dga. the only discs that will be hard to replace are the roc and Valkyrie. but i think if i throw some more discs i can find a replacement for the Valkyrie.
Discraft has two outstanding mid-ranges: the Comet & the Buzzz. The Comet is longer than a Roc, but almost as accurate. It compared to the Ontario Roc very well; think of it as a longer Ontario. The Buzzz doesn't give me the same D as a Comet, but it is deadly accurate and will hold any line you put on it. You can throw the Buzzz and keep a Wasp in the bag for windy days when you need something more overstable.
I think some discs have a weird mystical hold over their users. No matter how many times you go away from them, no matter how many other discs you find that are arguably better than them, they find a way back into your bag. The Aviar & the Roc are those discs for me. There are tons of good mid-ranges and putters on the market, but for some reason I keep finding that matrix stamp and that big chicken in my bag. I don't get so attached to the drivers, they usually are the source of my problems. >:D
Quote from: smyith on May 12, 2007, 08:59:55 PM
... but i think if i throw some more discs i can find a replacement for the Valkyrie.
For me a Flash and a Valk are pretty much interchangeable.
I hear that DGA is coming out with an ESP Flash called the Hurricane.
I used to not like the Wasp, but now I'm throwing the ESP Wasp for a straight, short driver. The ESP Wasp does not seem to be as overstable as I remember the Z Wasp.
Quote from: bruce_brakel on May 13, 2007, 09:53:06 AM
I used to not like the Wasp, but now I'm throwing the ESP Wasp for a straight, short driver. The ESP Wasp does not seem to be as overstable as I remember the Z Wasp.
Yeah, the X-Wasp (which are cheaper ;D) is less overstable than the Z as well. When they get beat in, they are niiiice.