Disc Golf Values has the proto run of the Destroyer, the new
Speed 12, Wraith-like driver from Innova.
QuoteDescription:
PRE-RELEASE Innova Champion DESTROYER! If you think the Wraith goes far you aint seen nothin yet! I have thrown this disc and it is the next level of high speed driver! It has a slightly wider rim configuration than the Wraith (as pictured) but with similar flight characteristics to the Wraith. The BIG difference is it is a 12 on the speed scale. There is a total of 160 being pre-released as a fundraiser (not CFR) for the 2007 US Masters. They are PDGA approved and these will sell out fast. Most are in the 168-169g range as these are the test shot prototypes and not from a production run.
Speed 12, Glide 5, Turn -1 and Fade 3
Here is the link:
https://www.discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=CE_DST&PHPSESSID=9b30a6c455679e792ea58389b0653937 (https://www.discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=CE_DST&PHPSESSID=9b30a6c455679e792ea58389b0653937)
From the PDGA message board, what Dave Dunipace says about the Destroyer:
Q: Dave, what can you tell us about the Destroyer, and do you expect it to be released in Champion or Star when it goes into regular production?
Dave D: The Destroyer will be in full production Monday. Mark got, what amounted to all the test shots for the Masters stamp. I am not sure why we started in Champion, but it seemed to test fine this time. We will run Star too at some point. DX is always a question mark with long range drivers. We will test it, but I don't have much confidence that it will work consistently.
I have had a chance to throw it and it appears to be something new for me. It won't replace the Wraith, but very well looks as if it will replace the Max for me. We have preliminarily rated the high speed turn to be -1, but I still had a difficult time turning it, and it always comes back. I can't say that for a Wraith, or even a TeeRex. The most unforseen thing with the Destroyer was its sidearm potential. It seems to be an excellent into the wind disc despite the slight high speed turn. Like the Wraith and other long range discs, it is highly nose sensitive. Any nose up means hyzer. The good news here is that it is a very long hyzer. I was throwing the lightest ones I could get, (167 & 168 gms), and I had no inclination to throw heavier at all.
I should also say that the Destroyer is not for the faint of arm. It works best with a lot of power behind it. Sidearms require less power than backhands, but still need driver power. To use this disc for backhand shots other than hyzers, you need at least 375 ft or more of power, or have the ability to throw with nose down.
Q: Would you say the same of a Wraith or TeeBird? I can throw 400 with a great pull, but average 300-360ish and I don't have any troubles with the either of said discs. Granted, I'm very green in the DG world. Any thoughts?
Dave D: If you can throw max weight Wraiths, you can throw this disc. If you can flip a TeeBird, you can throw this disc. A Max is the real test. If you can throw a Max, you want this disc.
I am getting one in my bag only because I seriously love the name Destroyer.
I'm holding out for the Annihilator. ;)
Maybe eventually they will come out with a disc named the Masturbator...
Everything I heard about the Destroyer for the last two months has been "faster Wraith." I guess that was the hook, because in reality it is more overstable than the Wraith. Dave Dunipace is now saying it is a "faster TeeRex X."
QuoteI would not describe it as a faster Wraith. More like a faster TeeRex X. It is replacing my Max in my bag, which I use for wind, sidearms, and shots where the disc has to come back after a hard pull. It is a power disc, and probably will not be popular with players who can't throw fast, unless they use it for sidearm. It comes in weights from 168-175 gms. I have been throwing the lightest ones I could get, and have no inclination to throw anything over 170 gms at all.
So, I guess the new marketing ploy is "compare it to your most popular disc, even if it is nothing like your most popular disc." ;D
The Star Destroyer is now available for ordering... they are limiting stores to 50 on their order. Too bad I just received my 550 disc order from Innova! I don't think I'll be able to order these right away... although I do like saying "Star Destroyer"... makes me want to have Darth Vader or a Stormtrooper dyed onto the disc lol.
During one thread here there was a comment about the PDGA needing to make tougher standards on discs to limit how far the manufacturer's can go. I guess Dave Dunipace was asked a question on the PDGA board about limiting the rim (or wing) length in response to the the length of the rim on the Destroyer. His response was
QuoteI agree with your assessment of the wide rim. One of the technical spec limitations we asked the PDGA for was a rim width limitation for the very reason you stated. Plus discs like the Destroyer make big arms bigger and do little if anything to help anyone else. I don't think that is a good thing for disc golf. I have resisted making this disc for a couple of years trying to get the PDGA to see this logic. So far, no go.
It started a thread on the PDGA message board:
http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=719797&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1 (http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=719797&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1)
On the one hand I would love to see a slow down of the distance race. I have seen some very nice courses re-designed just to accommodate the fact that a 300 ft hole is not what it was five years ago. Especially in places like here where the land values severely limit the land available for disc golf, these new discs threaten to take the challenge out of most of our courses. Unlike some other places that can just re-design the course to use more land or move to bigger plots of undeveloped land, we are mostly stuck with what we have.
Just the other day I was trying out the new course in South Elgin and I deuced #8 twice using an Inferno. Five years ago my disc would have been an Eagle or Cyclone, and if I had thrown one of those the other day I'd have had to have the putter working to deuce that hole. It's not like I earned that extra D with practice and hard work. Somebody designed a disc I could throw farther. If you could turn back the calendar 10 years and go to South Elgin when Gazelles and Cyclones were the max D discs, my score for 18 holes goes up four or five strokes easily. Just to protect the integrity of the game it would be nice to cap the distance these discs fly a little bit.
On the other hand, the cynic in me questions Innova's motives. Despite the hype of the Destroyer, some feel that discs like the Inferno or Quarter K are still faster. One of my conspiracy-theory friends thinks that Gateway and Quest are ahead of Innova in the wide-rimmed driver race, and Innova would like the PDGA to bail them out by legislating the problem away. I don't think I would go that far since Innova is selling the daylights out of the Wraith, but it's an interesting take on the world. I thought the wide rim would eventually reach the point where someone released a disc you can't hold with a backhand grip, and that would be the limit. I guess we are not there yet.
Anyway, I'm not sure I have a point. I was just curious if anybody thinks the PDGA should be doing something to slow down the big distance discs, or is big D good and we should just keep on throwing the next new thing?
The problem with specifying rim width is that it doesn't deal with new design ideas like the bottom of either an Epic or the Turbo Putt. The Epic has a non-constant rim width, and leaving aside the outside nubs of the rim on the Turbo, the spiral on the underside would confuse the rim width issue as well. Having a rim width specification will hamper disc innovation. If you are just changing the width of the rim to create new discs, then, yes, rim width matters. If you are rethinking conventional disc design you could be handcuffed by a rim width specification. Then there are issues in how do you measure the rim width? If the inside of the rim is sloped or concave, at what point do you measure it?
I don't think adding a rim width specification is necessary.
Quote from: stpitner on July 31, 2007, 01:16:34 PM
The Star Destroyer is now available for ordering... they are limiting stores to 50 on their order. Too bad I just received my 550 disc order from Innova! I don't think I'll be able to order these right away... although I do like saying "Star Destroyer"... makes me want to have Darth Vader or a Stormtrooper dyed onto the disc lol.
;D ;D ;D
Now Millenium just needs to release the "Falcon".
The one thing that I think the wide-rimmed disc is doing is that it is harming the number of new players that will stick with a back-handed shot. I've been noticing that a lot of casual players these days all throw side-arm. That's more than likely because they buy this cool looking/sounding disc (eg. the MONSTER - hey! that's a cool name as they have no clue what they are buying) and then when they try to backhand it the disc hooks immediately and goes nowhere. But wait... all these other people are throwing sidearm, maybe i should try that too, and then all of a sudden the disc seems to do a whole lot better.
Is this the case for everyone? No, of course not, but I do feel that the wide-rimmed disc is introducing a lot of people to the sport in an improper manner. Part of that is education, but part of that is somehow differentiating these discs in brick & mortar stores as well as online. Forget explaining all of the plastic types, get these people some small rim discs to get them started first!
Innova East is already out of the Destroyer and Star Cro. Oh well. At least I got some Star Cro's earlier :)
Quote from: stpitner on August 02, 2007, 10:20:43 PM
The one thing that I think the wide-rimmed disc is doing is that it is harming the number of new players that will stick with a back-handed shot. I've been noticing that a lot of casual players these days all throw side-arm. That's more than likely because they buy this cool looking/sounding disc (eg. the MONSTER - hey! that's a cool name as they have no clue what they are buying) and then when they try to backhand it the disc hooks immediately and goes nowhere. But wait... all these other people are throwing sidearm, maybe i should try that too, and then all of a sudden the disc seems to do a whole lot better.
And that is kind of the point. If you buy into the argument that a whole generation of players who do not throw backhand is bad for the sport, then that will be part of the legacy of the wide-rimmed driver. None of the kids are throwing backhand. They actually have to learn how to throw backhand. If you can buy a disc that you can throw sidearm and never have to learn the maddening mechanics of the backhand drive, why not?
Educating the new player is easier said than done. I used to actually beg new players not to buy Vipers, but their buddy told them it was the best disc and it had a badass hotstamp so no matter how much I warned them...they would buy it anyway. I ran a pitch and putt course with two hyzer shots out of 18, and the Viper was always in my top 5 best selling discs. Now, not only do we get to try to convince them that their buddy is wrong and the TeeRex is not the best disc for them but we also get to try to tell them they need to actually practice and learn to throw backhand. Good luck with that.
I can only hope we have a whole generation of players that do not throw backhand. ;D I need that advantage.
Why is it up to the disc manufacturers to dumb down the discs because people won't learn the right way? If someone is serious, they will most likely learn to play the right way (backhand). If they are rec players, and get better results forehand (and they don't end up throwing their arm off), let 'em throw forehand. Who cares what other people are doing. Go sit at a ball golf driving range for a while. You will most likely see most people hitting clubs they have no business hitting and using very incorrect form. That doesn't stop Callaway from coming out with a new driver.
Also, if we had more courses like Brown Deer around here, it wouldn't matter how far the discs fly. Accuraccy and consistency are the keys to great disc golf. Long, innaccurate discs don't help with this. The destoyer might help you play Fairfield better, but that's about it. Just my .02
Everyone should only throw one disc -- the original Frisbee. Get rid of the bags, quad shocks, stools, golf carts, polo shirts, polyester, gay hiking boots, etc. Put on a tie dye tee shirt, cutoffs and sandals, grow out your hair, and have fun. Peace. ;D
I'd give anything to go back to the days of carrying around a #2 slice, ram, and glow eclipse. Maybe a whippet too.
Oh, and my 10 year old blow fly!
Still have my 1979 Whammo Moonlighter- original golf disc- in my car. Lets play some one disc :icon_farao:
Lids tourneys are a blast on the old pitch & putt courses. ;)
OK, I guess instead of a Masters Division I need an "Old Plastic" division. We can drive with XD's and putt with Super Puppies like in the good old days. That would make me happier.
Maybe I'll start the Disc Golf Luddites Association and get the Kitty Hawk Hooker back in production. ;D
I was able to snag 4 of the stars from zonedriven and they showed up yesterday. Hoping to be able to get out and throw one today.
mirth I've got a #2 slice and Eclipse just waiting for you to buy!
I was able to watch a player throw the Destroyer on Granite Ridge last week. He was crushing it. It is super fast and wraith like but more stable.
Before I left Highbridge Saturday I was able to grab one. I went out today to throw it. It is super fast and pretty stable. I like it as a distance disc but don't have much control on it. I'll give more info as I throw it more.
I liked mine a lot. Only threw it 3 times, but on the 3rd throw I put it 70 past a soccer field. I don't have enough throws in to know much about it, but I did like the D!
The destroyer is a very strong disc. It is not flippy like the wraith. The big arms are going to like this disc a lot.
The Destroyer should definitely be in that TeeRex-Max-Firebird overstable category. If you can get good D from those discs, the Destroyer is worth a pull. If you can't throw a TeeRex-Max-Firebird, than the Destroyer isn't going to do much for you.
It's a cool disc. I can't throw it, but I like to watch people who can let it fly (so long as they are not on my card!) It goes far.
Davey Mac posted this in a discussion about wide-rimmed drivers:
QuoteThe Illusion and Blurr wing have widest wing by Gateway followed closely by the Speed Demon-DT, Spirit and Rage which are all wider than any other disc that is pdga approved besides the epic!
I have not seen a destroyer but if its the same as a spectra than the above statement is true!
If the wings of the discs get much bigger it will be awfully hard to get high end TPU's to weigh under 175 grams because the volume of the mold will be to high.
If the cubic CM of a disc is 160 and the plastic weighs 1.1 the discs will weigh around 176 grams! There are blowing agents and specialty blends that help reduce weight but most effect the quality of the polymer and make it less durable!
( an illusion with its massively thick and long wing is 165 cubic cm which is why we have a hard time getting the weights under 177) The blurr has 12 cubic cm taken off the disc on the top and is around 153 cubic cm!
Its way easier to jam more plastic in a disc to get it to weigh more than back off and have it weigh less. You come up with short shots with parts not fully packed out! ( X-OUTS)
In order to have longer wings the wing would have to have a lot of concave ( not flat or convex) on them causing them to be really overstable or the nose would have to be sharp or flight plate really thin to keep the volume under 160 cubic cm at 21 cm in diameter!
Lower end plastics weigh around .91-93 specific gravity with out filler which will allow for wings to be be up to 2" or more and would allow for an over all volume of close to 190 cubic cm, staying under the 200 gram limit!
So the wings of discs CAN get larger but most likely high end plastic would not be able to be used.
If anyone has any information on a high end polymer that can be used for golf discs that weighs less than 1.1 specific gravity, I will gladly pay for the information.
To go along with that, Dave Dunipace has repeatedly said the disc like the Destroyer are generally not released in DX because they can't get a consistent run in the lower end plastic. So, there may need to be some advances in plastic technology before the rims can get much bigger. It sounds like they can make a disc with a wider rim if they go to a wider diameter to keep the weight legal, but the wider diameter will slow the disc down and kind of defeat the purpose.
Maybe Innova can retool some of the old discs. How about a wide rimmed Scorpion? ;D
n/m
anyone know where i can get my hands on one of these badd mamm jammas :huh:
Quote from: discpro99 on August 14, 2007, 02:03:46 PM
anyone know where i can get my hands on one of these badd mamm jammas :huh:
go to a search engine & search for "Innova Destroyer"
you'll get several different online vendors
anyone going to have some for sale friday at the invitational?
Quote from: discpro99 on August 14, 2007, 02:42:00 PM
anyone going to have some for sale friday at the invitational?
never mind sunking hooked me up
I won't have one for sale on Friday, but if I'm able to make it you are more than welcome to toss it.
I have 25 Destroyers being delivered Monday if anyone is looking for one. 5-165-169g & 20-170-175.
You can email me at ParkerJ152@aol.com
Thanks,
Jason w/ Action Sportz Disc Golf
got my destroyers in the mail last night and threw it a couple times in a field by my house and let me tell you this disc is the real deal holyfield.
Picked one up yesterday just for the hell of it... Threw it a few times at BG, just trying for distance. I got a couple throws past the lightpost on top of the hill on hole 1, which is around 390-400' uphill. I dont normally throw that far. That being said, I also had a few throws land only about 300'.
To me, it flew like a faster wraith with less glide. It moves so fast that it gets out quite a ways before hyzering out. But if you dont get it up in the air, it doesnt matter how fast its going... Its just going to drop to the ground a few hundred feet out. It doesnt have any glide, its just a super fast projectile. Not good for low, line-drive shots at all.
Flies further on a high hyzer line than anything I've thrown. Throwing anhyzer with no ceiling and a lot of left-right room to work with, I think this could also be the longest pure distance disc I've thrown. People at fairfield will probably love them. But it didnt seem practical enough for controlled golf shots to me. I'll stick with the star wraith for my distance shots for now.
They are nice. I've sold 20 of them in 2 days. People are going nuts over them.
pm me how much there are
i heard it will cost you a first born child
Nah, my prices are low. I have 20 more that will be here Friday if anyone else is looking.
Jason
parked hole 12 yesterday at round lake with a destroyer into a head wind. ;D thats the first time i have ever parked that hole. everyone should have one of these in there bag at all times.
I received an email from a customer today that he was a little disappointed with the Destroyer because it seemed to get nicked up pretty quickly around the edge of the disc. Anybody whacked a couple trees and noticed if it is holding up as well as your other Star Plastic? I have not been able to order any of the Destroyers yet for my own inventory to check them out.
Quote from: discpro99 on August 24, 2007, 12:05:10 PM
parked hole 12 yesterday at round lake with a destroyer into a head wind. ;D thats the first time i have ever parked that hole. everyone should have one of these in there bag at all times.
Unfortunately, not everyone can throw 500+ feet into wind. >:(
I've not noticed the nicks, but the foil on the destroyers are defective. If you take a wet paper towel & rub the foil, It comes right off. The foil under the colored foil is silver.
QuoteI've not noticed the nicks, but the foil on the destroyers are defective. If you take a wet paper towel & rub the foil, It comes right off. The foil under the colored foil is silver.
That is pretty typical, especially if the hotstamp is that purple metallic design. Most of my purple metallic Innova hotstamps have rubbed off fairly quickly to show the silver base underneath, and that has been going on for at least 15 years. I've never worried about it...once you throw it you have ruined your resale value anyway. ;D
Hey, has anybody thrown the Destroyer and the Blurr? I have mostly heard people compare the Destroyer to a Wraith or TeeRex, but I was wondering how it compared to other companies drivers. I have a friend who told me that the Illusion and Blurr were still faster than the Destroyer, but he lives in St. Louis and drinks the McCormack Kool-Aid so his info is suspect.