The finance committee of the Lake County Forest Preserve District voted 7-0 in favor of having disc golf on a forest preserve property. The following members are on the committee:
Chair, Stevenson Mountsier, Lake Barrington
Vice Chair, Pamela O. Newton, Vernon Hills
Anne Flanigan Bassi, Highland Park
Stephen Carlson, Gurnee
Terese Douglass, Grayslake
Audrey H. Nixon, North Chicago
Randy Whitmore, Wadsworth
Pam Newton is a big supporter of disc golf and has been very supportive of adding a course to one of the forest preserve properties. Stevenson Mountsier, Anne Flanigan Bassi, and Terese Douglas were also vocal in their support of disc golf. Please visit the Lake County Forest Preserve website and thank these individuals for supporting disc golf. http://www.lcfpd.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.view
The next step is in choosing a location. The direction that the discussion went today is that they are looking to create a championship caliber course, that also has tees for recreational players. They are also considering this to be a pay to play course with minimum daily fees or the opportunity to buy an annual pass. This is great news. Please show your support of disc golf by contacting these members.
Tom,
That is sweet news!!! Nice work today & thanks for attending the meeting.
This is very good news!!!! :hello2: Just sent in my thank you letter.
Thanks Tom
location location location...
great news, cross fingers and lcfp may surprise everyone with a world class course.
27 hole course would be wonderful..
multi pins and multi tee pads please.
long, treachorous, and demanding . keep the lassies at home.
Quote from: lafrill on September 07, 2007, 06:50:17 PM
location location location...
great news, cross fingers and lcfp may surprise everyone with a world class course.
27 hole course would be wonderful..
multi pins and multi tee pads please.
long, treachorous, and demanding . keep the lassies at home.
This is not the attitude that should be presented to the Lake County Forest Preserve Board. We want a championship course, but we would also like a course with alternate tee placements that is user friendly to all residents of Lake County. The best chance of getting a course in place is to be all inclusive and to welcome players of all skill levels. That course can still be a championship caliber course.
Please contact the Board Members that are listed on one of the previous posts and show your support for disc golf. You can make a difference. One voice can make a difference, don't wait for someone else to speak up and have the board move on to another issue. Thanks.
and if it's a well-designed course, 18 holes are plenty. It's not like a course has to be either 9 holes or 27, after all. Quality, not quantity. ;)
Dear Brett...
Again, the board has not gone on record as "supporting" disk golf. Staff
was directed to consider sites, costs, potential impact and alternatives.
The dacision has not yet been made. I am not saying I will not support disk
golf. As I stated in the meeting, I have concerns.
Steve Carlson
I was talking to a Kensington police officer today while he was helping me out with a minor mechanical problem. He mentioned that they were thinking of pulling the course and moving it for a couple of years to let the land recover. I agreed that that was a good idea. He mentioned that the shenanigans at the disc golf course keep them busy, "But it's not the serious players like you; it's the kids who aren't very good at the game. We never get any trouble from the players on the Tobbogan course." I told him, "If you have any input into that meeting, tell them that the way to reduce littering, vandalism and all that is to build a course that's tough as hell. The serious players love that kind of course and the riff-raff will all go somewhere else. Make the average hole 500 feet. Problem solved."
Build a tough course. Make it pay for play. Good players who will be respectful of the rules will drive past free 9-hole pitch-N-putts to pay you money to play on a challenging course. The riff-raff who cause all the problems will stay away. Problem solved.
After my experiences this summer with chuckers, stolen discs, trashed courses, broken limbs, and various other issues, I would play almost exclusively at such a pay to play course. I'm tired of driving to Brown Deer, let's get something like that or better down here.
I was at the meeting today. They are sending the topic of disc golf to all of the committees. http://www.lcfpd.org/about/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.viewBoardMeetings
Today is was the Land Preservation and Acquisitoin Committe.
I can never remember the guys name but he has given the basic details to the board at each meeting. I do not believe he belongs to any of the boards. He does a pretty good job with the information. They then talk about the LCFPD policy, let visitors speak, committe gives their opinion, then a vote it taken. Below, the names that are in red are totally against disc golf. They did motion to move disc golf forward so it's advancing down the lines.
Land Preservation and Acquisition
Chair, Ann B. Maine, Lincolnshire
Vice Chair, Diana O'Kelly, Mundelein
Stevenson Mountsier, Lake Barrington
Suzi Schmidt, Lake Villa
Angelo D. Kyle, Waukegan
Larry Leafblad, Grayslake
Michael Talbett, Lake Zurich
Here is what it all comes down to. This has been discussed in the past but it's their "policy" that is keeping this back.
1. The board members that vote no say this is an activity that can be offered and is offered in the local park districts. They don't understand what disc golf is and think all these 9-holers offer plenty of disc golf in the area. Soccer, dog sledding, and the model air planes are always discussed when this topic comes up. They are worried that if disc golf is offered it opens the flood gates. This is what we are battling.
Do you want a quality 18 hole disc golf course in Lake County?
From the beginning i've never gotten my hopes up or even thought disc golf had a realistic chance of getting installed in the LCFPD. The only reason i've tried is because there is absolutely no land in any park district that can offer a quality 18 hole course. There are so many conservative people on the board and there are so many hoops to jump through I thought it was impossible but attempted anyway. However, over the last few meetings there are quite a few people interested in disc golf and giving it a chance. Many of them see this as a chance to bring many people into their forrest preserve. I think there is a 50/50 chance of this happening.
I was irratated today as usual. I was more irratated when one of the board members said she didn't think there was a demand for disc golf. She said she's had a few e-mails and that is it. They really have no clue how big disc golf is in this area and how big it's getting. Here is your chance to voice your opinion. I hear guys complain all the time. This is your chance to do something. Below is link to the board members that will be voting on this topic in the future. Please call, please e-mail. Contact these people. Below are the links to every member. Their e-mails are right there. Here is the phone number. General Offices - 847-367-6640. Monday - Friday, 8 am - 5 pm
In your response give them
1. Name
2. Age
3. Address
4. Why you want a disc golf course on LCFPD land. Make sure it says something to the extent that the local park disctricts cannot offer you a quality place to play and poor mantained courses.
5. Other, Lifelong fitness. I don't use the LCFPD but would if disc golf. I'm 60 years old and play, I'm a female & play. I have a family that plays, etc.. etc... etc...
Finance, Administrative and Education
http://www.lcfpd.org/about/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.viewCommittee&group=24557
Land Preservation and Acquisition
http://www.lcfpd.org/about/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.viewCommittee&group=24558
Planning and Restoration
http://www.lcfpd.org/about/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.viewCommittee&group=24554
Executive Advisory
http://www.lcfpd.org/about/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.viewCommittee&group=24556
Please Help!!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/newcourse/
I'm not sayin... but you know... I'm mentioning... am I reading that right that it's all the women are fully opposed and all the men are open to it? I'm not saying anything ... just curious if there's anything to it.
Quote from: stpitner on November 08, 2007, 10:52:02 PM
I'm not sayin... but you know... I'm mentioning... am I reading that right that it's all the women are fully opposed and all the men are open to it? I'm not saying anything ... just curious if there's anything to it.
Scott you are 100% wrong on this. Pam Newton who is on the Board is our biggest supporter of disc golf. This was only one committee. And this response is for you, but it is also for other people who may sign the petition. I appreciate you taking the time to sign the petition, but your comments on the petition are not going to help the cause, in fact it may hurt the cause. The Forest Preserve is looking for a type of course that will bring in Lake County Residents. A championship style course will do that, but we don't want to give them ammunition that it is going to be exclusionary. A championship style course can bring in the casual player, and one way of doing that is having multiple tee placements. A course with red, white, and blue tees. The goal of the board, which is not going to change is to enhance the Forest Preserve experience. We are looking for a course that will bring out old and young alike. A course with multiple pin placements that help to maintain the natural flora and fauna. But also a course that caters to the experienced player and will provide a challenge to those highly skilled players. The Forest Preserve has the property and the means to provide such a course.
I think focusing on being inclusive instead of exclusive is what would help. There is no need to mention a "bunch" of other disc golf courses, the board does know about the number of courses in the area.
This will make your contacts easier. Copy & paste.
smountsier@co.lake.il.us, pnewton@co.lake.il.us, abassi@co.lake.il.us, scarlson@co.lake.il.us, tdouglass@co.lake.il.us, anixon@co.lake.il.us, rwhitmore@co.lake.il.us, amaine@co.lake.il.us, dokelly@co.lake.il.us, sschmidt@co.lake.il.us, akyle@co.lake.il.us, lleafblad@co.lake.il.us, mtalbett@co.lake.il.us, ccalabresa@co.lake.il.us, sgravenhorst@co.lake.il.us, mcunningham@co.lake.il.us, jmartini@co.lake.il.us, bpaxton@co.lake.il.us, rpowers@co.lake.il.us, bsabonjian@co.lake.il.us, cspielman@co.lake.il.us, dstolman@co.lake.il.us, bcarter@co.lake.il.us
i signed petition
and to answer post in the other section
from fox metro
no it doesnt cost anything
brett are u going to post petition on other area sites ?
i cant do anything from work
that's why I was "sayin but not sayin..." I think it's great that Pam is a supporter. I just didn't see her name on the list. I just noted that it was 3 women listed that were completely against it and 4 men that were not. I was really more curious if there was any reason for a division along gender lines.
That was just this particular committee, Scott.
ok, then my comments were in regards to that one specific committee
Guys,
I heard on the radio yesterday that the Lake County Forest Preserve Park District is moving to reclaim a significant amount land, to the tune of about $41,893,700.
What does this mean for the implementation of a championship calibur disc golf course? Does it help in terms of more land to choose from, or hurt due to spending?
I mean to post a link...
http://www.lcfpd.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.details&intObjectId=26060 (http://www.lcfpd.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.details&intObjectId=26060)
Quote from: Classic_ROCer on January 10, 2008, 12:54:11 PM
Guys,
I heard on the radio yesterday that the Lake County Forest Preserve Park District is moving to reclaim a significant amount land, to the tune of about $41,893,700.
Thats just $41,893,700 in land that they wont use for disc golf. Mabey another dog park or a radio controlled airplane space. That is all LCFP land is good for :rolleyes:
Anyone heard any new news about this?
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=203585&src=3
Get ready for a never-ending group of people asking us for more land," committee leader Carol Calabresa said before the group's vote. "We're going to feel the pressure more and more."
isnt that their job to provide services, how do they know what services to provide unless someone asks ?
cant they see that this sport is can produce revenue similar to ball golf
what a joke
these people actually get paid to make decisions
my dog is smarter
Just another low blow to Lake County Disc Golf.
Please send an e-mail to the board.
smountsier@co.lake.il.us, pnewton@co.lake.il.us, abassi@co.lake.il.us, scarlson@co.lake.il.us, tdouglass@co.lake.il.us, anixon@co.lake.il.us, rwhitmore@co.lake.il.us, amaine@co.lake.il.us, dokelly@co.lake.il.us, sschmidt@co.lake.il.us, akyle@co.lake.il.us, lleafblad@co.lake.il.us, mtalbett@co.lake.il.us, ccalabresa@co.lake.il.us, sgravenhorst@co.lake.il.us, mcunningham@co.lake.il.us, jmartini@co.lake.il.us, bpaxton@co.lake.il.us, rpowers@co.lake.il.us, bsabonjian@co.lake.il.us, cspielman@co.lake.il.us, dstolman@co.lake.il.us, bcarter@co.lake.il.us
Grow the sport. They'll come to you when they are ready.
What forest preserves do you guys have your eyes on......if the door ever opens. I'm moving to Lake Forest from Charlotte, NC next month and have been looking around at where new and better courses on the east side of the county might be able to go. Glad I found this thread and see the work you guys have done to get on the radar, but very sad to see that latest decision.
There are some HUGE things happening here (not announced yet) that only happened when we worked with very high levels of the decision makers.
The Four Winds Golf Course purchased last fall by the LCFPD is ready for a course. It would be ideal.
Until there are new board members voted in that support disc golf there will never be disc golf there.
An old golf course would seem to be the lowest hanging fruit as far as getting a dic golf course into Forest Preserve land. Cutting fairways into forests will understandably evoke all sorts of protests from naturalists......they're trying to preserve the forests. I can understand those objections, but the "if we let the disc golfers in, we have to let everyone in" argument sounds more like laziness than leadership.
If they had an environmental impact statement or something along those lines, that would allow low-impact sports and recreation to come in, and keep others out. List the amount of grading, tree cutting, pesticides, herbicides, etc allowed and soccer fields would not happen, but walking trails and mountain bike trails could.....as could disc golf (if the statement was not too stringent).
I'll be on board to help out lobbying for the leaders to lead when I get in town.
Quote from: Dave242 on June 17, 2008, 06:43:26 AM
An old golf course would seem to be the lowest hanging fruit as far as getting a dic golf course into Forest Preserve land. Cutting fairways into forests will understandably evoke all sorts of protests from naturalists......they're trying to preserve the forests. I can understand those objections, but the "if we let the disc golfers in, we have to let everyone in" argument sounds more like laziness than leadership.
If they had an environmental impact statement or something along those lines, that would allow low-impact sports and recreation to come in, and keep others out. List the amount of grading, tree cutting, pesticides, herbicides, etc allowed and soccer fields would not happen, but walking trails and mountain bike trails could.....as could disc golf (if the statement was not too stringent).
I'll be on board to help out lobbying for the leaders to lead when I get in town.
Thanks for the good ideas and for the offer of help.
Quote from: Dave242 on June 17, 2008, 06:43:26 AM
If they had an environmental impact statement or something along those lines, that would allow low-impact sports and recreation to come in, and keep others out. List the amount of grading, tree cutting, pesticides, herbicides, etc allowed and soccer fields would not happen, but walking trails and mountain bike trails could.....as could disc golf (if the statement was not too stringent).
One of the problems our sport has been avoiding is erosion and soil compaction. Because our courses often cut through wooded areas in defiance of normal rules for trail development (looking for the killer shot, don't ya know) we often create compacted soil and erosion issues that lead to dead trees and damaged landscapes. Then we bitch when the trees get cut down. It's not so bad around here due to the fact that our land is so flat, but I've been in other areas where the traffic from a disc golf course has devastated the landscape. Unfortunately, completing the necessary environmental impact studies and landscaping to prevent erosion takes away that "cheap to install" designation for course development we like to talk about. I read about a District in the Kansas City area that did complete the studies and planned landscaping, and their course development estimates were over $50,000 for an 18-hole course.
Anyway given the damage I've seen in other areas from disc golf, somebody who was against disc golf could put together a pretty good argument that disc golf is very damaging to the environment. We might need the PDGA to really take the lead and get us some good data to fend off a good argument like this.
Quote from: Dave242 on June 15, 2008, 08:35:09 PM
There are some HUGE things happening here (not announced yet) that only happened when we worked with very high levels of the decision makers.
???
All you have to do to avoid soil compression is to aerate the soil once or twice per year. The Buffalo Grove Park District used to aerate Willow Stream at least once per year. Since I don't play that course every day like I used to I don't know if they still do that. Aerating the soil is pretty inexpensive. It costs about the same as mowing the course once plus the cost of the aerator attachment but the PD already has ball fields, they probably already have the aerator.
Quote from: Silicon Avatar on June 17, 2008, 02:44:11 PM
All you have to do to avoid soil compression is to aerate the soil once or twice per year. The Buffalo Grove Park District used to aerate Willow Stream at least once per year. Since I don't play that course every day like I used to I don't know if they still do that. Aerating the soil is pretty inexpensive. It costs about the same as mowing the course once plus the cost of the aerator attachment but the PD already has ball fields, they probably already have the aerator.
Umm...you could not aerate the courses I'm thinking of...heavily wooded, little ground cover, lots of elevation changes...aerating would just loosen the soil and make it more likely to erode. Courses like those need to be designed for proper drainage, and the landscaping needed to do that can make the cost of a disc golf course soar.
Like I said, not such an issue here. Most of the courses here are flat and open. They are not going to have extreme erosion problems unless that land is neglected by the park district. So it's the bright side of having nothing but flat courses...no need for expensive landscaping.
Anyway I was just thinking that depending on the kind of land you are talking about, I would not take for granted that a disc golf course would come out of an environmental impact study smelling like roses. A lot of issues could be raised about the potential damage to the site. Here is an article I saw from Washington:
http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080603/ETP03/716337765/-1/ETPZoneLT&template=ETPZoneLTart (http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080603/ETP03/716337765/-1/ETPZoneLT&template=ETPZoneLTart)
I could see some tree-hugger making a similar stink here over these issues, and the Forest Preserve would be listening a lot closer to them than your average Park District would.
I read Brett's post last week and read the article in the Herald. It appeared to me that the Board declined to green light disc golf in part because they feared that allowing disc golf would encourage other groups to apply to use land and in part due to old fashioned NIMBYism (Not in My Back Yard). Given that the current Board is not going to do us any favor I figured I would let them know their jobs since they don't seem to understand their job. I sent them all the following e-mail last week:
Dear Board members
I am a Cook County resident. I am not one of your constituents. However, I often have business in Lake County. I have clients, relatives, friends and colleagues who live in Lake County. My family often dines, shops, and enjoys recreational and cultural activities in Lake County. I am a member of a Lake County based club, DisContinuum, that holds its league at Bevier Park in Waukegan, Illinois.
I am writing to ask you to reconsider the Planning and Restoration Committee's decision to forego building a disc golf course in the Lake County Forest Preserve. I have written to members on prior occasions explaining the benefits of disc golf. I have already written to explain that the game is enjoyed by an unusually wide age range of people. Men, women, boys and girls all play disc golf. I am 50 and have played with older and younger players. I have already written to many of you explaining that disc golf is a very green activity that leaves the forest preserve in as good a condition after play as before play. The game has a minimal effect on the environment. I have already written explaining that the game is in accord with the mission of any park or forest preserve district in bringing citizens to the land and getting them to participate in a healthy activity. You are all aware of those facts.
I understand that you have a very understandable concern that if you allow one activity you will then set a precedent for other groups to claim the use of Forest Preserve land. I read an article to this effect in the Daily Herald. If disc golfers get a foothold in the Lake County Forest Preserve, they will be followed by dog walkers, soccer enthusiasts, baseball players and others desirous of using the forest preserve. I understand that you have a legitimate concern about policies that may lead to new struggles to control the resources in your domain.
I think these concerns are legitimate. However, those same concerns would be a prudent basis for denying any usage of the lands in the Lake County Forest Preserve. Certainly the lands are intended for public use. The preserve is not a museum but an active, living area. You are not protecting the land in a way that we look to protect rain forests, the Petrified Forest and other areas that would be permanently destroyed with too much public use. Your mission calls for public use. I am certain, that within reason, you all intend for Boy Scouts to hike the woods and perhaps even set up camp in appropriate areas. I am sure that you intend for local fisherman to drop their hooks in approved places at approved times. Bird watchers are expected. Groups expect to be able to obtain permits to have picnics in designated areas.
Your job is to make the difficult decisions regarding appropriate and non-appropriate use. Would building a soccer field be too much of an interruption of the natural splendor of the forest? That is your decision. A baseball field? Again, a difficult decision that is appropriate for you. Obviously, you want to minimize roads in the forest. However, you have to build some roads to allow service personnel into the forest to keep it clean and safe. Accordingly, with all due respect, I feel that you should look at the merits of the disc golf proposal. It is inappropriate to reject the proposal with a "slippery slope" argument-- allowing disc golf will open the door to other groups asking for land use. Groups should ask for land use and the Board needs to make decisions regarding that use.
On the merits, disc golf is a very good match for the Lake County Forest Preserve. I, and others, have already outlined the positive impact that disc golf would have on the Lake County Forest Preserve. I will not rehash those points here. Also, bear in mind that the course that has been proposed would not be an ordinary, park district type course. The proposal calls for a championship caliber course that would bring the most serious players from all over the country to Lake County. The plan is to make the beautiful Lake County Forest Preserve a showpiece for disc golf and for the area. The plan intends to bring a course that would attract National and World championship events to Lake County.
As your neighbors to the south in Chicago try to bring the Olympic Games to the area in 2016 I dream that the Professional Disc Golf Association (PDGA) would hold a world championship event at a course in the Lake County Forest Preserve contemporaneous with those games and world attention, the right kind of attention, will be brought to Lake County. This dream can become a reality and you hold the key to making the first step. Please reconsider your position. Thank you.
Nice letter!
Been reading up on the LCFP $185m referendum today. I've been clinging to thread of hope that if it passes might help our cause of getting a course installed on land ideally sutied for the game. But then I saw this survey result on their website:
"The survey also showed that people didn't support constructing a disc golf course on Forest Preserve property (only a 3.8 out of 10 rating), confirming a recent decision by a Forest Preserve Committee to leave provision of disc golf courses to park districts and other local park and recreation agencies."
http://www.lcfpd.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.details&intObjectId=26543 (http://www.lcfpd.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.details&intObjectId=26543)
Anyone know about this survey? I wish I did, and I know a lot of people that would have supported it had they known about it. I hope we get a second chance and they do the same survey next year.
What I find amusing about the survey is the sample size..... How are 617 people's views an accurate representation of the 710,000+ residents of the county?
You know what is funny. If 38% of the users who voted for disc golf used the facility it would move to #2 on the most used according to their survey.
Quote from: Dzwicke on November 04, 2008, 02:18:05 PM
Been reading up on the LCFP $185m referendum today. I've been clinging to thread of hope that if it passes might help our cause of getting a course installed on land ideally sutied for the game. But then I saw this survey result on their website:
"The survey also showed that people didn't support constructing a disc golf course on Forest Preserve property (only a 3.8 out of 10 rating), confirming a recent decision by a Forest Preserve Committee to leave provision of disc golf courses to park districts and other local park and recreation agencies."
http://www.lcfpd.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.details&intObjectId=26543 (http://www.lcfpd.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.details&intObjectId=26543)
Anyone know about this survey? I wish I did, and I know a lot of people that would have supported it had they known about it. I hope we get a second chance and they do the same survey next year.
I did not hear about this survey until this post. I use the Forest Preserves and I vote.
I wonder how many of those people approve of the following recreations:
Dog Sled Park. No its not a joke.
http://www.lcfpd.org/preserves/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.view&object_id=161&type=P
Model Airplane Field.
http://www.lcfpd.org/preserves/index.cfm?fuseaction=preserves.viewActDetail&object_id=139
Oh wait. Did they even ask about those?
I wonder if the survey asked about how people feel about this debacle:
http://www.lcfpd.org/about/index.cfm?fuseaction=land.detailImprovement&intObjectID=20492&intPreserveImprovement=609
I guess dogs have more rights to recreation in Lake County, IL then Disc Golfers. Dog exercise parks. 4 of them.
http://www.lcfpd.org/preserves/index.cfm?fuseaction=preserves.viewActDetail&object_id=130
The best part of all this to me is that they already have Golf, 4 - 18 hole courses, in the LCFPD and they still find reasons to say no. And not a single golf course they operate is financially self supporting. They can choose to see it differently but I think they are wrong to do so. If you have Golf I do not understand needing to approve Disc Golf as a recreation. To me they are the same recreation using different tools. Disc Golf is all about trying to be part of nature. The basic principal of Disc Golf is to leave the course in better shape then it was when you got there. I truly hope that someday someone is able to help them see that Disc Golf is a perfect fit for their recreational goals. Until then I will be more than happy to remind everyone I can of their hypocrisy. I have heard dozens of excuses from the board and not a single one of them valid IMO.
They have the land. They have the money. They do not understand what Disc Golf is. From my experience they do not care to educate themselves about Disc Golf. They support a lot of other forms of recreation including Golf. But not Disc Golf.
IMO the only way to change their mind is political pressure. The LCFPD board members are the same people elected to the Lake County Board of Commissioners, http://www.lcfpd.org/about/index.cfm?fuseaction=about.viewBoardMeetings . Enough Disc Golfers, including family and friends, have to make a big enough deal about Disc Golf to them to make them feel that if they do not support Disc Golf that they will lose your vote. We need a bigger voice then we currently have. There are 100's of Disc Golfers who live in Lake County. I am pretty sure that there are more Disc Golfers then there are Dog Sledders and Model Airplane Fliers in Lake County, IL. Speak up let them know how you feel.
well now that some new board members were voted in to the lake county forest preserve board. maybe the outcome of getting a disc golf course on county land may happen.
I looked thru all the elections and it looks like the majority of those opposed to disc golf were reelected or were not contested. One of the supporters of disc golf did not win.
http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/IL/Lake/7239/13120/en/summary.html
QuoteI guess dogs have more rights to recreation in Lake County, IL then Disc Golfers. Dog exercise parks. 4 of them.
There are alot more people who want to exercise their dogs than people who would probably use a pay-to-play disc golf course. I'm pretty sure thats more about the dog-owners than the rights of the animals ;) Also dog exercise areas take up alot less room than a disc golf course would.
I've personally given up hope on this dream that started 3 years ago. It seems that the LCFP made it clear they are not interested. We can post a link, and the same 30-50 people can all write another email to the Board members, but I really don't think they are going to find out anything new thats going to change their mind.
I'm not trying to bring anybody down here, I'm just posting from a realistic point of view after reading angry messages on here for the last few years. Maybe we should just let this lay dormant for awhile and look for other opportunities elsewhere. This is a long way from every actually happening, IMO.
I think that is the problem with this area. There really aren't too many areas that I am aware of that are suitable for the disc golf course we are hoping for.
I blame most of this on the players and the sport in general. Why you ask?
I have a a copy of the LCFPD survey they sent out to all the local park districts in the area.
1. Not enough interest from players. It's been posted about meetings and where to send e-mails or call. Less than a handful attended meetings and i'm sure there were not too many that e-mailed or called the LCFPD.
2. This past election.
In a nutshell here is what they concluded about disc golf.
1. The perception of disc golf. Stoners, drunks, vandals, and litterers. Additional policing would be needed.
2. Area courses. Erosion. The nasty look of worn out areas around tee pads. Broken vegetation.
I don't think keeping quiet is the way to go though. Until there is a demand for disc golf they won't consider it. I agree with Mike, the LCFPD offers many things people aren't interested in. Pay to play was never in the plans. This would immediately become one of their most used facilites if they installed a quality course.
QuoteIn a nutshell here is what they concluded about disc golf.
1. The perception of disc golf. Stoners, drunks, vandals, and litterers. Additional policing would be needed.
2. Area courses. Erosion. The nasty look of worn out areas around tee pads. Broken vegetation.
Their perception is based on fact. I think we've been over this a million times on this forum. If they are frightened of these things then I'm not sure they should want to install a disc golf course. Look at Farifield or Adler and both of the above observations are running rampant.
I think several disc golfers in the area have done a good job making LCFP aware that disc golf is an option. Their land isn't going anywhere and the sport isn't going away. When they want to install a course they will.
Keeping quiet on the issue will not accomplish anything positive. This is a political issue at the moment. Without people speaking up they have no reason to change their mind.
I will never stop pursuing disc golf in the LCFPD. For 2 reasons.
1. They have the money to do it right. An 18hole course would cost less they what they spend on a single picnic pavilion or bridge.
2. They have the land to do it right. They own more than 26,500 acres. To not let disc golfers use 40-60 acres is embarrassing to me.
There is no better option in Lake County, IL. The IL state parks have no money to put into any projects. But they do have the land. The local park districts that do have the land let high school kids or play ground designers build/design their courses.
If anyone has any better options and they need help please let me know and I will be more than happy to help.
The perception is correct. But if this is this is the reason to not install a course then they should shut down more than half of their preserves. They have stoners, drunks, vandals , and litterers on every piece of property that I have ever been to. Hell every year they are pulling up and burning weed that people are growing in the forest preserves.
The courses in this area have erosion problems and look like crap because no one maintains them. I think Bevier is a good local example of what a good course can look like if taken care of. LCFPD does a great job of taking care of their property. I do not think this would any different then the issues they already deal with in their current preserves.
I think a huge part of the issue is the way they are set up. I would like to know why Lake County and Cook County do not have county parks like their neighboring states. I am not sure about the rest of Illinois. Some of the best Disc Golf courses I have seen across the country are in County parks. Some are in state parks. Very few of them are in city or village park districts. Lake County wants us to go to the local park districts for Disc Golf courses. Kind of funny seeing as how everytime there is a large piece of land available in Lake County LCFPD buys it. So how is a local park district supposed to even acquire the land required for a good course. The simple fact that the only research they did was to survey local parks was a joke. They were told flat out at the first meeting I went to that the parks/courses in our area are horrible examples of a disc golf course. If the local parks provided the service we were looking for why would we have gone to the LCFPD asking to have a course installed.
Yes people use the dog parks. Alot of people would use a disc golf course if they chose to install one. I believe that it would be in the top 5 of the most used facilities within 1 year of it being installed. Over time I believe that they would sell as many permits to a disc golf course that they do for the dog parks. The LCFPD Dog parks are huge. You could put multiple disc golf courses in the one down on Fairfield and 176.
I know they do not want pay to play. If it is to be a disc golf only facility. Just like the dog sled area, model airplane field, and dog exercise parks are for those uses only. It only makes sense that is a facility that requires a permit to use. Plus it would eliminate most of the issues discussed above.
Getting a championship caliber course installed in our area has become an obsession of mine over the past year. And I will not stop until we get one. There is no valid reason why Lake County Disc Golfers do not deserve one of the best if not the best course in the country. And I feel that LCFPD is our best option.
The perception of disc golf. Stoners, drunks, vandals, and litterers. Additional policing would be needed.
*-------++
Think if governmental officials played disc golf - they would pull all the courses
Anyone have a list of all the convicted gov officials
Someone smoking a joint vs taking bribes for licenses
thank God george ryan doesnt play
or we would all be branded child killers
ny gov - prositution
mn senator - banned from all airport restrooms
the list is endless
actually i think i see more non smokers on the courses now than when
i started playing
What it will take is someone on the inside who will champion the idea; it sounds as if the only person who was in favor was voted out. WIthout someone on the inside pushing this through, it will be an excercise in futility to continue to solicit the idea with those who have already nixed it. I would estimate that all who were against it have never played. Best way would be to invite them out for a round with some of the top tier players and judge for themselves.
example; recently while playing at New Lenox, we (group of old timers playing since late 70's) were approached by an interested spectator who was having a picnic with a group there and watching us. He approached us after we finished and were having a brew in the parking lot; we talked for some time and he threw a few of our discs and was totally psyched; turns out he is the Park District director in Kankakee, and said he will push to get an 18 holer in at a Park he knows would be perfect; covered in large Oaks.
There have been several insiders that have pushed for disc golf. There were 3 of 4 heavily promoting for disc golf.
The problem with the LCFPD is they have 23 board of commissioners. Each are on at least 1 of the 4 separate committees. It's tough to persuade that many people when they have no clue what you are talking about. I was so frustrated sitting in those meetings only getting a few minutes to tell them your opinion. The rest of the time you just have to sit there silent with no input while they spout out ignorant things.
Below are the boards. I've invited the entire board to come out to several local events. Not 1 showed up.
Here they are.
Executive AdvisoryPresident, Bonnie Thomson Carter, Ingleside
Vice President, Angelo D. Kyle, Waukegan
Carol Calabresa, Libertyville
Ann B. Maine, Lincolnshire
Stevenson Mountsier, Lake Barrington
Pamela O. Newton, Vernon Hills
Audrey H. Nixon, North Chicago
Planning and Restoration
Chair, Carol Calabresa, Libertyville
Vice Chair, Susan Loving Gravenhorst, Lake Bluff
Mary Ross Cunningham, Waukegan
Judy Martini, Antioch
Brent Paxton, Zion
Robert Powers, Round Lake Beach
Robert G. Sabonjian, Waukegan
Carol Spielman, Highland Park
David B. Stolman, Buffalo Grove
Land Preservation and Acquisition
Chair, Ann B. Maine, Lincolnshire
Vice Chair, Diana O'Kelly, Mundelein
Stevenson Mountsier, Lake Barrington
Suzi Schmidt, Lake Villa
Angelo D. Kyle, Waukegan
Larry Leafblad, Grayslake
Michael Talbett, Lake Zurich
Finance, Administrative and Education
Chair, Stevenson Mountsier, Lake Barrington
Vice Chair, Pamela O. Newton, Vernon Hills
Anne Flanigan Bassi, Highland Park
Stephen Carlson, Gurnee
Terese Douglass, Grayslake
Audrey H. Nixon, North Chicago
Randy Whitmore, Wadsworth
Just want to put the LCFPD's Mission Statement on here for the record. This should clear up any misunderstandings about their responsibilities to the residents, including disc golfers, of Lake County. Remember they are in office represent all of us not who they choose to.
"To Preserve a Dynamic and Unique System
of Natural and Cultural Resources,
and to Develop Innovative Educational,
Recreational, and Cultural Opportunities
of Regional Value, while Exercising
Environmental and Fiscal Responsibility."
I have a really hard time trying to understand how Disc Golf does not fit in this mission statement.
This Mission Statement and more information can be found in this document.
http://www.lcfpd.org/docs/media_pub_23850.pdf
Quote from: Mike Clark on November 10, 2008, 07:43:56 AM
Just want to put the LCFPD's Mission Statement on here for the record. This should clear up any misunderstandings about their responsibilities to the residents, including disc golfers, of Lake County. Remember they are in office represent all of us not who they choose to.
"To Preserve a Dynamic and Unique System
of Natural and Cultural Resources,
and to Develop Innovative Educational,
Recreational, and Cultural Opportunities
of Regional Value, while Exercising
Environmental and Fiscal Responsibility."
I have a really hard time trying to understand how Disc Golf does not fit in this mission statement.
This Mission Statement and more information can be found in this document.
http://www.lcfpd.org/docs/media_pub_23850.pdf
Thanks Mike.
For your problem Innova invented the Traveler and God invented the Y tree. People were playing Frisbee golf at Adler before it had a course, and at Fink, Baycourt, Kensington, and variety of other parks before they had a course. People playing frisbee golf or disc golf in those parks helped convince the park districts they ought to have a course.
So long as you have some stomach for the fight, don't give up. But its hard to accomplish anything with government by going in the front door.
Quote from: Bruce Brakel on November 10, 2008, 12:49:14 PM
For your problem Innova invented the Traveler and God invented the Y tree. People were playing Frisbee golf at Adler before it had a course, and at Fink, Baycourt, Kensington, and variety of other parks before they had a course. People playing frisbee golf or disc golf in those parks helped convince the park districts they ought to have a course.
So long as you have some stomach for the fight, don't give up. But its hard to accomplish anything with government by going in the front door.
I think Bruce is on to something here. Perhaps they need a demonstration of what they are missing. This season is pretty much over. However, next Spring we should consider a rogue tournament at a desired site in Lake County with Travelers and Skillshots etc. Set up a great layout course and use portable baskets. Keep it down to about a half dozen foursomes of the highest rated players we can find.. Non-playing volunteers can caddy the baskets to the next location and make up a big gallery. After the round (make it a one round "tournament") have a skills event for school kids. The players who just participated can teach the rest of the attendees at a clinic. Maybe something can be done to get as many kids as possible to watch the event. Video the event. Invite the press. Send out some press releases. Have everybody look like they are playing in an A tier type event and show them what can be done. See if a local news station would bite. Specifically invite the Commissioners to the event. Use the Innova Traveler and try influencing them from the back door.
I really like what your saying about not giving up Mike! Bruce and David have some great ideas too. Some people may not agree, but maybe inviting some Cub Scout troops out on that self made course to teach them to play would be a strong influence in changing some minds of the big boys. But then again, maybe not. Just a thought. :)