Brett Favre,
Screw the fudge packers. Let's play some ball with the Bears!
It will be interesting to see if the Packers will release him or try to get something for him. I can see him playing for MN, Bal, Atl, Mia, or Chi next year.
Wouldn't that just be a kick in the rear for all of us Packer fans if he went down south 300 miles to Chicago. I would like to think that the Pack would be smart enough to keep him, but is sounds like they are pretty set on not having him start if he comes back. Did Aaron Rogers start crapping out golden eggs over the off season or what?
I think Brett backed the Packers into a corner when he decided to officially retire.
They drafted 2 qbs and have structured their team assuming he was not coming back. There is no way the Pack can trade him with his contract because there will be no takers for that price. They obviously don't want him as the starter and they are going to release him.
Hint: Chicago Bears. Throw some big money at Favre. At least give us somewhat of a chance next year. Can someone edit a picture with Brett in a Bears uniform?
Yes, but still he has played with these guys for multiple seasons and can easily be as good as a rookie starter. I would be worried about Baltimore coming into the picture if you are wanting him down here in Chicago. They have not had a QB for a few seasons and have the money to throw at him as well. Although with not having a running game, Chicago really will need a big passing attack this year, which REX is not going to provide the team, and Kyle has not shown the big game yet in his games the past few years either.
I actually just realized this. The Madden curse.
Hint to Chicago Bears: Favre will be on the cover of Madden. He will get hurt this year. Don't throw big money at him. ;D
Maybe SI as well.
Oy, that would be great but it's like wishing Kobe would come to the Bulls. McCaskey or Reinsdorf, same thing: penny pinchers. But it would be a great opportunity for him to stick it to the Packers by playing in the same division. An actual QB? Every Bears fan's dream!
Quote from: CEValkyrie on July 11, 2008, 09:56:44 PM
I think Brett backed the Packers into a corner when he decided to officially retire.
They drafted 2 qbs and have structured their team assuming he was not coming back. There is no way the Pack can trade him with his contract because there will be no takers for that price. They obviously don't want him as the starter and they are going to release him.
Hint: Chicago Bears. Throw some big money at Favre. At least give us somewhat of a chance next year. Can someone edit a picture with Brett in a Bears uniform?
It's not quite up to the photoshop quality of the Iranian news service, but how's this?
Quote from: Bruce Brakel on July 11, 2008, 10:46:32 PM
Quote from: CEValkyrie on July 11, 2008, 09:56:44 PM
I think Brett backed the Packers into a corner when he decided to officially retire.
They drafted 2 qbs and have structured their team assuming he was not coming back. There is no way the Pack can trade him with his contract because there will be no takers for that price. They obviously don't want him as the starter and they are going to release him.
Hint: Chicago Bears. Throw some big money at Favre. At least give us somewhat of a chance next year. Can someone edit a picture with Brett in a Bears uniform?
It's not quite up to the photoshop quality of the Iranian news service, but how's this?
upsetting :'(
Even if Brett came to the Bears he wouldn't last 2 or 3 games behind the O line that the Bears are going to have this year. If he did last the whole year who is he going to throw to. The Bear's Offense is going to be a joke this year.
I have enjoyed every minute of Brett Favre's little soap opera that he seems to love. This guy just loves the attention. The last 2 off-season's the Packers are held hostage figuring out what roster moves to make because Favre can't figure out if he wants to play or doesn't want to play. Then finally the guy makes up his mind this year and retires, resulting in the Pack drafting another backup QB and committing to Rodgers as the starter.
Now he thinks he can just change his mind after a period of 90 days and the Packers should be cool with it? Ridiculous. I still think the reason he retired is because the Packers didn't go get Moss like he wanted (the Pats resigned Moss the day before Favre announced his retirement after he had pleaded with the Packers to go after Moss) so that was his way of pouting even though Driver/Jennings was actually one of the better WR tandems in the NFC last year. Now like a little baby he decides he wants to play afterall. Guess what? The Packers don't want you anymore! Hahaha. Fantastic.
I can't wait to see him suit up in some other uniform. I'm hoping Favre goes to the Vikings, wins a super bowl, and retires after winning the same number of titles with the Vikings as he won with the Packers. As much as I don't like Favre, that would be worth seeing just to have that sit in the stomachs of every Packer fan.
Oh man. This is getting good. I love it.
I like it here. I'm welcomed here. Comments about working out in Mississippi. Unreal!
needless to say, if you look at my user name you'll know where i stand. Brett Farve, please just go away!!!!
Quote from: ihatecheeseheads on July 29, 2008, 08:21:44 PM
needless to say, if you look at my user name you'll know where i stand. Brett Farve, please just go away!!!!
Rumors are that Brett has opened a bakery. He specializes in turnovers. Next weeks special is bears claws. :lol:
Can we all agree this is the most ridiculous situation ever? I'm so sick of hearing about it. If I'm the GM, I think I'd just bite the bullet and release him to get rid of the headache. I don't think they'd get very much in a trade for him at this point anyways. What is a 39 year old QB who turns the ball over constantly going to do for any team where he has to come in and learn a whole new offense with days left before the season starts? Not a whole lot.
Its like a soap opera and the media is loving every minute of it. If makes me sick! Brett F**head has thrown 288 career interceptions. Maybe he should come back to see if he can break 300. Just kiddin, DIE BRETT DIE
288 MOST INT IN NFL HISTORY!!!! CONGRATULATIONS ----YOU SUCK
Quote from: ihatecheeseheads on July 30, 2008, 08:53:13 AM
288 MOST INT IN NFL HISTORY!!!! CONGRATULATIONS ----YOU SUCK
Your an idiot, thats not the only record he has you bonehead. Why dont you do a little research and look up some of his other records and then start talking trash. He is on top of ALL QB records, thats right ALL OF THEM!! You just need to open your eyes and appreciate one of the greatest QB's off all time, and if you dont think so you are just an ignorant A-HOLE. :thefinger:
i dont hate the guy he WAS good but there's a time when you just have to let go, cause there is always someone else ready to fill the spot and take it back to the next level.
Quote from: discpro99 on July 30, 2008, 09:30:48 AM
Quote from: ihatecheeseheads on July 30, 2008, 08:53:13 AM
288 MOST INT IN NFL HISTORY!!!! CONGRATULATIONS ----YOU SUCK
Your an idiot, thats not the only record he has you bonehead. Why dont you do a little research and look up some of his other records and then start talking trash. He is on top of ALL QB records, thats right ALL OF THEM!! You just need to open your eyes and appreciate one of the greatest QB's off all time, and if you dont think so you are just an ignorant A-HOLE. :thefinger:
I love it when a good thread degenerates into a troll/flame-fest ::)
You know for having every qb record of all time, you would think he'd have more rings.
I know this is just the shoot the breeze area but let's take it easy guys and remember that we are all friends in disc golf here. Let's treat everyone with respect. It's ok to disagree just don't call each other names.
As far as I am concerned on the subject, what comes around, goes around. The Packers forced Brett's hand by making him make a decision before he was ready. Brett wanted to wait a few months but the Packers told him at the end of the season that they needed to know then if he was in or out. I would bet that most starters in the NFL feel like retiring at the end of the season. The entire offensive line from the '80s Bears used to go to Hawaii after the season for a month to recover from the season.
If I were the Bears, I'd be doing everything in my power to try to land Favre. Just to stick it to the Packers. Back room deals for trades for other teams to trade for him and then trade him to the Bears...whatever needed to be done. Just because it would be fun! >:D
wasn't that because the bears were so good back then that they went for the pro bowl?
Quote from: JCthrills on July 30, 2008, 01:24:11 PM
wasn't that because the bears were so good back then that they went for the pro bowl?
It might have started when one of them went to the pro bowl and they all decided to go for the month. I doubt that the entire offensive line ever went to the pro bowl though. The offensive line was kind of under rated in those days. People used to wonder how many yards Payton would have gotten with a better line. In retrospect I think they were pretty good and just over shadowed by the powerful defense that the Bears had in those years.
Offensive line
74 Jim Covert T
62 Mark Bortz G
63 Jay Hilgenberg C
57 Tom Thayer G
78 Keith Van Horne T
these guys were awesome
who cares about farve ?
its REX time !!!
Quote from: airspuds on July 30, 2008, 01:45:57 PM
who cares about farve ?
its REX time !!!
Mike, you might need a psych eval. Rex time? Gack!
Quote from: airspuds on July 30, 2008, 01:45:57 PM
Offensive line
74 Jim Covert T
62 Mark Bortz G
63 Jay Hilgenberg C
57 Tom Thayer G
78 Keith Van Horne T
these guys were awesome
who cares about farve ?
its REX time !!!
Looking up the pro bowl rosters reveals that Jimbo and Hilgy went to the pro bowl several times. I have slippers that look like
Bears heads. I call the right one Keith and the left one Tom. I was not dissing the line, just the perception of the line at the time.
Discpro99- isnt it funny and ironic that he has all those records and the Packers are giving him the cold shoulder and pretty much telling him to "go away". Cheeseheads are really getting desperate.
J-E-T-S
wow. I can't believe he was traded to the Jets - for a draft pick of all things. Yes the quality of the draft pick gets better based on how the Jets do... but this hurts. I didn't really follow football until '94 or '95, and Favre was QB for the Packers. I've never been a fan of the Packers without Favre as the QB. I have to say that how the Packers handled this was one of the dumbest things that I've ever seen. It's really making me struggle with the desire to remain a Packers fan. I wouldn't expect to be a Jets fan just because Brett is on the Jets, but I'm certainly going to feel bad for Aaron Rodgers if he starts performing poorly this season...
Stupid higher-ups.
This whole thing has been a cluster-f**k from the get go. The Packers front office changed what they were going to do so many times I got sick from all the twists and turns. At first it was "Aaron Rogers is our QB" then it was "Let's try to keep him retired", followed by "It will be an open competition for the starting position", to now "Aaron Rogers is our QB and we don't want you here at all". Go ahead and and trade the guy. Never mind that he took the team out of the basement they had lived in for so long that their name was engraved on the doorway. Don't forget that he has started every game for you since then as well and that you have only missed the playoffs 1 year since he started as well. But what who cares about this stuff, we want to win the SuperBowl with this guy that has never started a game in his NFL career!
I guess going with a guy that has no previous starts and a few pass attempts helps to keep the expectations low for the year. If that is what you want.
With all this drama the Pack has put onto the shoulders of this team I find it will be very hard for the new QB to succeed this year. When he loses his first game, all hell will brake loose and he (as well as the rest of the Packers front office) will hear about how Favre could have won this game for whatever reason may arise. They have set this kid up for the possibility of a huge dissapointment.
I guess I am just really disappointed in how the front office handled the whole situation.
But....................
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!
As a Bears fan I was so pumped to see Favre retire after last season. I want the Packers to feel the pain of not having a stable QB every week.
This has been one of the most entertaining offseasons for me. I am absolutely shocked the Packers just said get the hell outta here. This is the best of both worlds for Bear fans. I can't wait to see Green Bay fans chanting we want Favre all year while losing games.
Quote from: Fox Metro Discer on August 06, 2008, 10:14:54 PM
This whole thing has been a cluster-f**k from the get go. The Packers front office changed what they were going to do so many times I got sick from all the twists and turns. At first it was "Aaron Rogers is our QB" then it was "Let's try to keep him retired", followed by "It will be an open competition for the starting position", to now "Aaron Rogers is our QB and we don't want you here at all". Go ahead and and trade the guy. Never mind that he took the team out of the basement they had lived in for so long that their name was engraved on the doorway. Don't forget that he has started every game for you since then as well and that you have only missed the playoffs 1 year since he started as well. But what who cares about this stuff, we want to win the SuperBowl with this guy that has never started a game in his NFL career!
I guess going with a guy that has no previous starts and a few pass attempts helps to keep the expectations low for the year. If that is what you want.
With all this drama the Pack has put onto the shoulders of this team I find it will be very hard for the new QB to succeed this year. When he loses his first game, all hell will brake loose and he (as well as the rest of the Packers front office) will hear about how Favre could have won this game for whatever reason may arise. They have set this kid up for the possibility of a huge dissapointment.
I guess I am just really disappointed in how the front office handled the whole situation.
But....................
THE BEARS STILL SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!
THE TEARS WILL ALWAYS FLOW IN GREEN BAY! BEARS OWN PACKERS. 90-79-6 ;D
Packer fans just learned the hard way that the NFL is a business. What Favre has done in the past doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes to next season. No matter what anybody else believes, the bottom line is that the Packers organization thinks it will win as many or more games this season with Rodgers instead of Favre. Maybe they know something we don't, only time will tell.
I agree with Brett, this has been absolutely awesome as a Bears fan.
If Rodgers comes out and throws 25TD with only 10 INT and GB gets back to the NFC title game while Brett goes to NY and wins 5 games while throwing 22 INT, I think the GB fans will be over this whole situation pretty quickly and realize that maybe Ted Thompson knew what he was doing?
Also, here is an FYI for the Packer fans, being ruthlessly hard on Aaron Rodgers before he's thrown a pass this year is not going to help your team win this year. You still have a better QB and 2 better WR than the Bears have, so quit being a bunch of babies.
I was really hoping that Brett (Farve not Comincioli) would go to Tampa and the Bears could pick up the left overs.
I say good riddance. The season starts NOW. Favre hasn't shown up to any camps or practices, or shown any kind of commitment to the team. There's no guarantee that he's in any kind of playing shape, or ready to start the season. If any other guys on the team pulled this kind of stuff, they would be dropped or traded too. He's being a selfish drama queen. You can't expect the team to hold out forever- they went out of their way to be accomodating ALL year. How many times did he say he wasn't coming back?
I hope he goes 4-12 with 30 INT, retires in shame and regrets all of it.
I think what has been the toughest thing for Farve's ego is realizing that he greatly overestimated the support he would get from fans in this situation. A good % were on Ted Thompson's side.
Quote from: Dan Michler on August 07, 2008, 10:27:07 AM
I think what has been the toughest thing for Farve's ego is realizing that he greatly overestimated the support he would get from fans in this situation. A good % were on Ted Thompson's side.
Any proof to back this up? what is your source?
Quote from: Mike S on August 07, 2008, 09:55:15 AM
I say good riddance. The season starts NOW. Favre hasn't shown up to any camps or practices, or shown any kind of commitment to the team. There's no guarantee that he's in any kind of playing shape, or ready to start the season. If any other guys on the team pulled this kind of stuff, they would be dropped or traded too. He's being a selfish drama queen. You can't expect the team to hold out forever- they went out of their way to be accomodating ALL year. How many times did he say he wasn't coming back?
I hope he goes 4-12 with 30 INT, retires in shame and regrets all of it.
The Packers forced Favre's hand by making him make a decision in January. He wanted to wait a couple of months to decide. The Packers got what they deserved by forcing him to decide then.
I remember a basketball player that played for the Bulls wanted to chase his baseball dreams for a few years...when he wanted to come back to basketball the Bulls said "Welcome back!!! Of course that was the Jordan Rules. I guess there aren't any Favre Rules.
I hope Favre has a good year. I hope Rodgers has a good year. I hope the Bears beat the Packers three times this year! I also hope that the Bears beat the Jets in post season play...when I hope, I hope big. ;D
As much as I really don't like the Lions or root for them, I'm now more optimistic that they will have a decent season... not a good season mind you, merely decent & not as much trouble with Green Bay
Quote from: Jon Brakel on August 07, 2008, 11:07:54 AM
Quote from: Mike S on August 07, 2008, 09:55:15 AM
I say good riddance. The season starts NOW. Favre hasn't shown up to any camps or practices, or shown any kind of commitment to the team. There's no guarantee that he's in any kind of playing shape, or ready to start the season. If any other guys on the team pulled this kind of stuff, they would be dropped or traded too. He's being a selfish drama queen. You can't expect the team to hold out forever- they went out of their way to be accomodating ALL year. How many times did he say he wasn't coming back?
I hope he goes 4-12 with 30 INT, retires in shame and regrets all of it.
The Packers forced Favre's hand by making him make a decision in January. He wanted to wait a couple of months to decide. The Packers got what they deserved by forcing him to decide then.
I remember a basketball player that played for the Bulls wanted to chase his baseball dreams for a few years...when he wanted to come back to basketball the Bulls said "Welcome back!!! Of course that was the Jordan Rules. I guess there aren't any Favre Rules.
I hope Favre has a good year. I hope Rodgers has a good year. I hope the Bears beat the Packers three times this year! I also hope that the Bears beat the Jets in post season play...when I hope, I hope big. ;D
People can say all they want that the Packers forced Favre into this situation, but that is just ridiculous. They let him waffle about retirement the past 2 offseasons until training camp. Excuse the Packers for wanting to have an idea of who their QB is before the draft and free agency is over. I'm sure they applied pressure on him to make his decision quickly this offseason, but at the end of the day there is only 1 man responsible for saying 'I'm retired' and that is Brett Favre. If he wasn't sure if he wanted to retire, then he shouldn't have had his teary little goodbye press conference. Why can't he man up and take some responsiblity for his situation? Ask yourself this: if you quit your job today, would you expect it to be there for you the same as you left it if you decide to come back in 2 months? The NFL is a business, maybe Brett didn't realize that.
Lets not compare Jordan's comeback to the Bulls to Favre. When Jordan decided to comeback in 1995, he was still the best basketball player in the world, period. Favre is so far from being the best player in the NFL its laughable. If Peyton Manning decides to announce his retirement for the next 3 offseasons, then yes the Colts will take him back as the starter everytime even if they spent their 1st rd pick on a QB. Is it not possible that the Packers are tired of an aging QB who throws picks at the end of games? With Favre, you know thats what you are getting. He may still be a top 15 QB, but maybe the Pack believes Rodgers is better than that? I'm not saying I agree, but maybe thats what they think.
My prediction is that Favre finally gets an injury that keeps him out of some games this year and he goes away quietly at the end of the year after a disappointment. I actually think Aaron Rodgers could be a solid QB. I think the RB situation is more of a question mark in GB. I predict the Bears, Lions, and Packers all go 9-7 and tie for the division title. 10 years from now all the Packer fans will have blocked this out from their memory.
Quote from: stpitner on August 06, 2008, 09:39:09 PMI've never been a fan of the Packers without Favre as the QB.
That's what I said once ... except it was Starr. :)
What about the Vikings Dan?
Quote from: discpro99 on August 07, 2008, 01:26:46 PM
What about the Vikings Dan?
AP will run for 1500 yds and the Vikings will go 6-10.
Quote from: Dan Michler on August 07, 2008, 01:09:23 PM
Quote from: Jon Brakel on August 07, 2008, 11:07:54 AM
Quote from: Mike S on August 07, 2008, 09:55:15 AM
I say good riddance. The season starts NOW. Favre hasn't shown up to any camps or practices, or shown any kind of commitment to the team. There's no guarantee that he's in any kind of playing shape, or ready to start the season. If any other guys on the team pulled this kind of stuff, they would be dropped or traded too. He's being a selfish drama queen. You can't expect the team to hold out forever- they went out of their way to be accomodating ALL year. How many times did he say he wasn't coming back?
I hope he goes 4-12 with 30 INT, retires in shame and regrets all of it.
The Packers forced Favre's hand by making him make a decision in January. He wanted to wait a couple of months to decide. The Packers got what they deserved by forcing him to decide then.
I remember a basketball player that played for the Bulls wanted to chase his baseball dreams for a few years...when he wanted to come back to basketball the Bulls said "Welcome back!!! Of course that was the Jordan Rules. I guess there aren't any Favre Rules.
I hope Favre has a good year. I hope Rodgers has a good year. I hope the Bears beat the Packers three times this year! I also hope that the Bears beat the Jets in post season play...when I hope, I hope big. ;D
People can say all they want that the Packers forced Favre into this situation, but that is just ridiculous. They let him waffle about retirement the past 2 offseasons until training camp. Excuse the Packers for wanting to have an idea of who their QB is before the draft and free agency is over. I'm sure they applied pressure on him to make his decision quickly this offseason, but at the end of the day there is only 1 man responsible for saying 'I'm retired' and that is Brett Favre. If he wasn't sure if he wanted to retire, then he shouldn't have had his teary little goodbye press conference. Why can't he man up and take some responsiblity for his situation? Ask yourself this: if you quit your job today, would you expect it to be there for you the same as you left it if you decide to come back in 2 months? The NFL is a business, maybe Brett didn't realize that.
Lets not compare Jordan's comeback to the Bulls to Favre. When Jordan decided to comeback in 1995, he was still the best basketball player in the world, period. Favre is so far from being the best player in the NFL its laughable. If Peyton Manning decides to announce his retirement for the next 3 offseasons, then yes the Colts will take him back as the starter everytime even if they spent their 1st rd pick on a QB. Is it not possible that the Packers are tired of an aging QB who throws picks at the end of games? With Favre, you know thats what you are getting. He may still be a top 15 QB, but maybe the Pack believes Rodgers is better than that? I'm not saying I agree, but maybe thats what they think.
My prediction is that Favre finally gets an injury that keeps him out of some games this year and he goes away quietly at the end of the year after a disappointment. I actually think Aaron Rodgers could be a solid QB. I think the RB situation is more of a question mark in GB. I predict the Bears, Lions, and Packers all go 9-7 and tie for the division title. 10 years from now all the Packer fans will have blocked this out from their memory.
You can't compare Favre's job to mine (for a number of reasons!). I can quit my job today and go across the street and get a job doing the same exact thing. I can even go to a competitor of the company that I work for and get a job. Those options were not available to Favre otherwise I think when he sent his text message to the Packers saying that he wanted to return and they said no thanks then Favre would have just gone to whatever team he wanted to go to. In the NFL you are not free to go work for anyone that you want to unless a team has released you.
I think Favre has "manned up" and taken responsibility for himself and his decisions. He said he made a decision and it was a mistake. All he was asking was to play for the Packers or be able to play somewhere else. I think anyone with the talent should be allowed to do that as long as the NFL hasn't kicked them out for doing something bad. I just think the Packers should have told him to come back and see what happens. I think everything would have worked out for the best for the Packers if they had welcomed him back. The world is like that. Chances are Favre will be finishing this season on the DL anyway...he is the cover guy for Madden this year! ;D
I also remember that Bulls player retiring and coming back and looking like a parody of his old self on a new team. We still have the memories of the glory days but to me it was kind of sad seeing him struggle at the end of his career. You retire for a reason, not to come back and realize your too old and it's too late to re-re-retire
Quote from: SIUFrolf on August 08, 2008, 06:06:28 PM
I also remember that Bulls player retiring and coming back and looking like a parody of his old self on a new team. We still have the memories of the glory days but to me it was kind of sad seeing him struggle at the end of his career. You retire for a reason, not to come back and realize your too old and it's too late to re-re-retire
You mean "struggle" winning championships? Or are you talking about Jordan's second retirement from the Bulls and his comeback with the Wizards? His first year with the Wizards he tore a tendon or something and missed 60 games. His second year with the Wizards was pretty much up to par with his years with the Bulls.
Favre has no one to blame for this but himself. I'm sure if he would have made his decision to come back before the Draft, I'm sure the Packers would have welcomed him back with open arms, but he didn't, the Packers took 2 QB's, and made a commitment to Rogers since then. He decided to retire, even if he was "pressured" into it, and he decided to wait until the week before training camp basically to say he wanted to come back.
As for Jordan with the Wizards, he was never up to par as he was with the Bulls, at least from what I remember. He had numerous games under 10 points, which he never had after his rookie season, and he looked slow. Sure he could still shoot, but he wasn't the same player. Sure he was better than everyone on his team, but that wasn't hard with the team on there.
God asks Peyton Manning first: 'What do you believe?'
Peyton thinks long and hard, looks God in the eye, and says, 'I believe in
hard work, and in staying true to family and friends. I believe in giving. I
was lucky, but I always tried to do right by my fans.'
God can't help but see the essential goodness of Manning, and offers him a
seat to his left.
Then God turns to Tony Romo and says, 'What do you believe?'
Tony says, 'I believe passion, discipline, courage and honor are the
fundamentals of life. I, too, have been lucky, but win or lose, I've always
tried to be a true sportsman, both on and off the playing fields.'
God is greatly moved by Tony's sincere eloquence, and he offers him a seat
to his right.
Finally, God turns to Brett Favre: 'And you, Brett, what do you believe?'
Brett replies, 'I believe you're in my seat.'
Well, the jury is just about in on this whole preseason Favre drama. It seems like most Packer fans I've spoken with agree that QB was not the problem with the Packers this season.
Some numbers...
QB rating
Favre 84.0 (18th in the NFL)
Rodgers 91.8 (7th in the NFL)
Pennington 96.4 (2nd in the NFL)
Favre led the NFL in interceptions with 19 and had the worst int% of any QB with atleast 400 attempts. He was intercepted on 3.9% of his passes, compared to Rodgers at 2.6%. Rodgers also has 23 TD's to Brett's 21, despite Brett throwing 100 more passes.
The Jets and Dolphins square off next week, the Jets must win and hope the Pats or Ravens lose to get in the playoffs. I'm wondering how Jets fans are going to feel if Pennington comes in and knocks them out, giving the Dolphins the division title over the Pats, 1 year after Miami went 1-15 with the Pats at 16-0. They have to be wondering why they paid so much when they could have just kept Chad, the #2 rated QB in the NFL?
And after saying he was committed to atleast 2 years in New York, Favre is now saying this "may" be his last year. Have fun waiting for July for Brett to make his final decision! I guarantee the Packers management is very glad right now to atleast be rid of that headache.
With Favre the Packers were 13-3 last year. He brings an attitude to the field. Something this years Packers team did not have. The Packers just plain sucked this year without that attitude. Saying that they'll beat the Bears tonight.
The Jets were absolutely terrible last year. 4-12. To be talking about them making the playoffs is unreal to me especially in that division. Favre has been asked to go out there and win games by throwing the ball. He's changed the culture with the Jets. Just like the Bears the Jets had many opportunities to get in the playoffs already.
Pennington had his chances with NYJ. He was absolutely terrible the past few years and add injuries to compounded that problem. I give credit to Parcels and the coaching staff utilizing 2 deadly weapons at RB. I can't believe the turnaround. There was not 1 Jet fan that wanted Pennington back. He absolutely sucked. It was a win/win for the Jets and Dolphins.
I can't say it was a win for the Packers. They have no shot at the playoffs. They went from a few plays from being in the Super Bowl last year to being the bottom in a pretty brutal division.
Quote from: Dan Michler on December 22, 2008, 10:48:24 AM
Well, the jury is just about in on this whole preseason Favre drama. It seems like most Packer fans I've spoken with agree that QB was not the problem with the Packers this season.
Some numbers...
QB rating
Favre 84.0 (18th in the NFL)
Rodgers 91.8 (7th in the NFL)
Pennington 96.4 (2nd in the NFL)
Favre led the NFL in interceptions with 19 and had the worst int% of any QB with atleast 400 attempts. He was intercepted on 3.9% of his passes, compared to Rodgers at 2.6%. Rodgers also has 23 TD's to Brett's 21, despite Brett throwing 100 more passes.
The Jets and Dolphins square off next week, the Jets must win and hope the Pats or Ravens lose to get in the playoffs. I'm wondering how Jets fans are going to feel if Pennington comes in and knocks them out, giving the Dolphins the division title over the Pats, 1 year after Miami went 1-15 with the Pats at 16-0. They have to be wondering why they paid so much when they could have just kept Chad, the #2 rated QB in the NFL?
And after saying he was committed to atleast 2 years in New York, Favre is now saying this "may" be his last year. Have fun waiting for July for Brett to make his final decision! I guarantee the Packers management is very glad right now to atleast be rid of that headache.
How about some cogent analysis about Thomas Jones?
Plain & Simple. The Bears were idiots for getting rid of Thomas Jones for nothing and keeping Cedric Benson.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on December 22, 2008, 12:09:54 PM
Plain & Simple. The Bears were idiots for getting rid of Thomas Jones for nothing and keeping Cedric Benson.
Yup.
I gave up on the Packers after the Saints game. What a joke. To be fair, they were hit hard with guys that weren't just injured, but went to IR and lost for the season. Cullen Jenkins (DE) was a huge loss at the beginning of October, and then Nick Barnett (LB) was lost 12/1. AJ Hawk has handled filling Barnett's shoes well (from what I understand of the game), but the Packers need both of them out there. I'm glad to see that Bigby is done for the year heh, he was so bad on so many occasions, but now that just means someone even worse will probably fill in for the remaining 2 games.
On the offensive side, Grant did not do as well as expected this year, and losing Mark Tauscher at Tackle to IR is pretty big. Chad Clifton was also on that O-Line and was hurt a lot of the year. Those two guys are huge components to a successful Green Bay offense.
Penalties and special teams also blew up GB. A couple of those games they should have won until special teams gives up a huge return or the last second desperation from the other team to score at the very end gets to them. Not good.
I agree that without Favre they lost a huge amount of leadership and determination. Rodgers needs to step up and fill that void next year along with Hawk and a few others.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on December 22, 2008, 11:45:47 AM
With Favre the Packers were 13-3 last year. He brings an attitude to the field. Something this years Packers team did not have. The Packers just plain sucked this year without that attitude. Saying that they'll beat the Bears tonight.
The Jets were absolutely terrible last year. 4-12. To be talking about them making the playoffs is unreal to me especially in that division. Favre has been asked to go out there and win games by throwing the ball. He's changed the culture with the Jets. Just like the Bears the Jets had many opportunities to get in the playoffs already.
Pennington had his chances with NYJ. He was absolutely terrible the past few years and add injuries to compounded that problem. I give credit to Parcels and the coaching staff utilizing 2 deadly weapons at RB. I can't believe the turnaround. There was not 1 Jet fan that wanted Pennington back. He absolutely sucked. It was a win/win for the Jets and Dolphins.
I can't say it was a win for the Packers. They have no shot at the playoffs. They went from a few plays from being in the Super Bowl last year to being the bottom in a pretty brutal division.
Actually alot of Jets fans liked Pennington and I guarantee alot more wish they still had him right now. Atleast the ones who aren't gay for Brett Favre's 'attitude'.
Quote from: Dan Michler on December 22, 2008, 10:48:24 AM
Actually alot of Jets fans liked Pennington and I guarantee alot more wish they still had him right now. Atleast the ones who aren't gay for Brett Favre's 'attitude'.
if it takes a "gay attitude" to become a winning QB in the NFL, then bring some rainbow action to Chi-town!!!! we would even take a switch hitter at this point!!!
i love seeing all the stats that surround football. does anyone really believe that kurt warner, with a great "QB rating" will actually make it anywhere in this year's playoffs??? Good luck winning in NY or any other cold weather venue. What does kurt warner have to do with brett favre and aaron rodgers? I'm glad you asked.
The bottom line is that the pack was a better team with favre as their QB in 2007. The Jets are obviously better with him this year. Either team would have been better off with him in the line up this season. While he does not possess a great QB rating, just look at the only stat that truly matters....J-E-T-S----9-6. The pack----5-9. If anyone believes that favre did not make a difference for both teams win/loss column this season, i'd like to teach you football 101. classes will start after super bowl sunday. ;D
As a long suffering bears fan, i know all too well about "re-building" seasons and sub-par QB play. they both SUCK and are no longer needed in today's NFL.
Just ask a dolphins fan (you out there brownie???). all you need is to plug in a few players at key positions, limit the effect of injuries, and hit the ground running. i think aaron rodgers was a little too green for this season's games. what the hell did he do while he was sitting on the sidelines for the last 5 years? He should have been learning and taking notes from a former super bowl champ & MVP on sundays. He may be a good "thrower of footballs", but he still needs to learn how to be a QB out there.
Who knows, maybe even the bears will find a good QB one of these days...
Isn't there a bears--packers game in a few hours????? i heard the pack has been practicing indoors all week because their cheerleaders didn't want to catch frostbite.
go bears!!!!!
Quote from: jasonc on December 22, 2008, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: Dan Michler on December 22, 2008, 10:48:24 AM
Actually alot of Jets fans liked Pennington and I guarantee alot more wish they still had him right now. Atleast the ones who aren't gay for Brett Favre's 'attitude'.
if it takes a "gay attitude" to become a winning QB in the NFL, then bring some rainbow action to Chi-town!!!! we would even take a switch hitter at this point!!!
i love seeing all the stats that surround football. does anyone really believe that kurt warner, with a great "QB rating" will actually make it anywhere in this year's playoffs??? Good luck winning in NY or any other cold weather venue. What does kurt warner have to do with brett favre and aaron rodgers? I'm glad you asked.
The bottom line is that the pack was a better team with favre as their QB in 2007. The Jets are obviously better with him this year. Either team would have been better off with him in the line up this season. While he does not possess a great QB rating, just look at the only stat that truly matters....J-E-T-S----9-6. The pack----5-9. If anyone believes that favre did not make a difference for both teams win/loss column this season, i'd like to teach you football 101. classes will start after super bowl sunday. ;D
As a long suffering bears fan, i know all too well about "re-building" seasons and sub-par QB play. they both SUCK and are no longer needed in today's NFL.
Just ask a dolphins fan (you out there brownie???). all you need is to plug in a few players at key positions, limit the effect of injuries, and hit the ground running. i think aaron rodgers was a little too green for this season's games. what the hell did he do while he was sitting on the sidelines for the last 5 years? He should have been learning and taking notes from a former super bowl champ & MVP on sundays. He may be a good "thrower of footballs", but he still needs to learn how to be a QB out there.
Who knows, maybe even the bears will find a good QB one of these days...
Isn't there a bears--packers game in a few hours????? i heard the pack has been practicing indoors all week because their cheerleaders didn't want to catch frostbite.
go bears!!!!!
Stats like QB rating are actually a pretty good indicator. Teams who lose the turnover battle have by far a losing record in the NFL, so if you want to ignore the quantity of Favre turnovers, then I'll be happy to teach you football 201 after you are done teaching me football 101. Classes start once you are finished taking the Favre load to the face that you clearly crave.
Clearly wins and losses are the important stat for the TEAM. However, a team has 22 starters, only 1 of which is the QB. If you want to just point at the team's records and immediately attribute the differences to the changes in QB, then why do teams even bother worrying about the other 21 positions? By that same logic, how to you explain the Dolphins having 10 wins with Pennington? Did the Ravens win the 2000 Super Bowl because of Trent Dilfer's ability as a QB? Is it not possible to win DESPITE a QB's sub-par play? How do you know the Packers wouldn't have been even worse this year with Favre and the Jets even better this year without Favre? You don't, nobody does, you can only speculate by looking at individual performances. If you want to sit here and make stuff up like 'Favre's attitude wins games', then your just ignoring factual information and replacing it with intangible things that we as fans really have no way of actually knowing. Why do you guys say Rex Grossman sucks then? We went to the Super Bowl with him and his ability to turn the ball over alot. Maybe we won because of Rex's attitude that made everybody else play better. If the Pats win the Super Bowl this year, then is Cassel better than Brady?
Alot of teams in history have won with QB's who have underperformed. There have also been alot of great QB's who have played on losing teams. Football is the most complete TEAM game of any of the major sports.
P.S. How can you seriously say " i think aaron rodgers was a little too green for this season's games. what the hell did he do while he was sitting on the sidelines for the last 5 years? He should have been learning and taking notes from a former super bowl champ & MVP on sundays. He may be a good "thrower of footballs", but he still needs to learn how to be a QB out there. "
I wish the Bears would have had anywhere near as an effective pass game as the Packers this year. Rodgers played very solid, regardless of Brett Favre. Great QB's do not grow on trees. If you think you can dump Rodgers and get a better QB, good luck!!!
Quote from: Dan Michler on December 22, 2008, 04:05:21 PM
Quote from: jasonc on December 22, 2008, 02:38:33 PM
Quote from: Dan Michler on December 22, 2008, 10:48:24 AM
Actually alot of Jets fans liked Pennington and I guarantee alot more wish they still had him right now. Atleast the ones who aren't gay for Brett Favre's 'attitude'.
if it takes a "gay attitude" to become a winning QB in the NFL, then bring some rainbow action to Chi-town!!!! we would even take a switch hitter at this point!!!
i love seeing all the stats that surround football. does anyone really believe that kurt warner, with a great "QB rating" will actually make it anywhere in this year's playoffs??? Good luck winning in NY or any other cold weather venue. What does kurt warner have to do with brett favre and aaron rodgers? I'm glad you asked.
The bottom line is that the pack was a better team with favre as their QB in 2007. The Jets are obviously better with him this year. Either team would have been better off with him in the line up this season. While he does not possess a great QB rating, just look at the only stat that truly matters....J-E-T-S----9-6. The pack----5-9. If anyone believes that favre did not make a difference for both teams win/loss column this season, i'd like to teach you football 101. classes will start after super bowl sunday. ;D
As a long suffering bears fan, i know all too well about "re-building" seasons and sub-par QB play. they both SUCK and are no longer needed in today's NFL.
Just ask a dolphins fan (you out there brownie???). all you need is to plug in a few players at key positions, limit the effect of injuries, and hit the ground running. i think aaron rodgers was a little too green for this season's games. what the hell did he do while he was sitting on the sidelines for the last 5 years? He should have been learning and taking notes from a former super bowl champ & MVP on sundays. He may be a good "thrower of footballs", but he still needs to learn how to be a QB out there.
Who knows, maybe even the bears will find a good QB one of these days...
Isn't there a bears--packers game in a few hours????? i heard the pack has been practicing indoors all week because their cheerleaders didn't want to catch frostbite.
go bears!!!!!
Stats like QB rating are actually a pretty good indicator. Teams who lose the turnover battle have by far a losing record in the NFL, so if you want to ignore the quantity of Favre turnovers, then I'll be happy to teach you football 201 after you are done teaching me football 101. Classes start once you are finished taking the Favre load to the face that you clearly crave.
Clearly wins and losses are the important stat for the TEAM. However, a team has 22 starters, only 1 of which is the QB. If you want to just point at the team's records and immediately attribute the differences to the changes in QB, then why do teams even bother worrying about the other 21 positions? By that same logic, how to you explain the Dolphins having 10 wins with Pennington? Did the Ravens win the 2000 Super Bowl because of Trent Dilfer's ability as a QB? Is it not possible to win DESPITE a QB's sub-par play? How do you know the Packers wouldn't have been even worse this year with Favre and the Jets even better this year without Favre? You don't, nobody does, you can only speculate by looking at individual performances. If you want to sit here and make stuff up like 'Favre's attitude wins games', then your just ignoring factual information and replacing it with intangible things that we as fans really have no way of actually knowing. Why do you guys say Rex Grossman sucks then? We went to the Super Bowl with him and his ability to turn the ball over alot. Maybe we won because of Rex's attitude that made everybody else play better. If the Pats win the Super Bowl this year, then is Cassel better than Brady?
Alot of teams in history have won with QB's who have underperformed. There have also been alot of great QB's who have played on losing teams. Football is the most complete TEAM game of any of the major sports.
P.S. How can you seriously say " i think aaron rodgers was a little too green for this season's games. what the hell did he do while he was sitting on the sidelines for the last 5 years? He should have been learning and taking notes from a former super bowl champ & MVP on sundays. He may be a good "thrower of footballs", but he still needs to learn how to be a QB out there. "
I wish the Bears would have had anywhere near as an effective pass game as the Packers this year. Rodgers played very solid, regardless of Brett Favre. Great QB's do not grow on trees. If you think you can dump Rodgers and get a better QB, good luck!!!
I am not getting into the Favre argument, but this last post makes some ridiculous points. Name one team that has won the Super Bowl with their QB that wasn't a hall of famer, or a quarterback who wasn't a hall of famer and underperformed. There have been 42 Super Bowls and of the 42 teams, 32 of them have had QBs who are, or will be in the Hall of Fame. Using Dilfer as an example is lame, Baltimore had an unbelievable defense, similar to the 85 Bears, and another team with a great defense with a mediocre QB was Tampa Bay. Washington and the Giants make up a good portion of the remaining teams who didn't have hall of fame QBs, and what do this year's Dolphins have in common with those Giants teams? Parcells. The coaching of Parcell's and Gibbs made up for those teams shortcomings at QB.
Yes, football is the most team oriented sport, but besides the goalie in hockey, there isn't a more important position. How has Shanahan done since Elway left? Also, Favre is known for all those interceptions (and I do jump into the Favre argument); he has averaged 17 a season, while Peyton Manning has average 15 a season. A difference of 1 every 8 games. Favre isn't the reason the Packers stink this year, but he absolutely has been one of the major reasons of the Jets turnaround this season.
Tom, you are allowed to argue why Favre's below average play is actually a help to his team, but these people who say they are Bears fans and want to cuddle with Brett Favre make me want to puke. Thats just my honest feelings on that situation.
Also, as far as Favre's career average for interceptions, I don't care. I'm only talking about this season and this season alone. Favre was clearly a much better player when he was 28 years old and I wouldn't argue against that.
rex grossman is a hall of famer.. brett farve will never be..
Quote from: Tom McManus on December 22, 2008, 06:10:31 PM
I am not getting into the Favre argument, but this last post makes some ridiculous points. Name one team that has won the Super Bowl with their QB that wasn't a hall of famer, or a quarterback who wasn't a hall of famer and underperformed.
The Bears!!! ;D
Quote from: Bruce Brakel on December 22, 2008, 08:33:29 PM
Quote from: Tom McManus on December 22, 2008, 06:10:31 PM
I am not getting into the Favre argument, but this last post makes some ridiculous points. Name one team that has won the Super Bowl with their QB that wasn't a hall of famer, or a quarterback who wasn't a hall of famer and underperformed.
The Bears!!! ;D
Exactly what I was thinking. McMahon was not a hall of famer QB and he rarely underperformed. For a QB of very little natural talent he was a good leader and had just enough talent to get it done when he wasn't handing the ball off to 34.
Quote from: Jon Brakel on December 22, 2008, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Bruce Brakel on December 22, 2008, 08:33:29 PM
Quote from: Tom McManus on December 22, 2008, 06:10:31 PM
I am not getting into the Favre argument, but this last post makes some ridiculous points. Name one team that has won the Super Bowl with their QB that wasn't a hall of famer, or a quarterback who wasn't a hall of famer and underperformed.
The Bears!!! ;D
Exactly what I was thinking. McMahon was not a hall of famer QB and he rarely underperformed. For a QB of very little natural talent he was a good leader and had just enough talent to get it done when he wasn't handing the ball off to 34.
I'm pretty sure alot of quarterbacks would like a 46-15 record. McMahon had talent. He just didn't believe in going down. He always wanted the extra yard. As a fan, i loved watching him play and spilling his guts out on the field. There's a valid point that it was not the smartest thing to do, but he was a fan quarterback. I would rather watch McMahon go for the extra yard, then watch a Joe Montana due the turtle. Yes, his career was cut short, but i loved every minute of his play and arrogance. He was a perfect fit for Chicago.
Quote from: Sr. on December 23, 2008, 05:05:20 AM
Quote from: Jon Brakel on December 22, 2008, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: Bruce Brakel on December 22, 2008, 08:33:29 PM
Quote from: Tom McManus on December 22, 2008, 06:10:31 PM
I am not getting into the Favre argument, but this last post makes some ridiculous points. Name one team that has won the Super Bowl with their QB that wasn't a hall of famer, or a quarterback who wasn't a hall of famer and underperformed.
The Bears!!! ;D
Exactly what I was thinking. McMahon was not a hall of famer QB and he rarely underperformed. For a QB of very little natural talent he was a good leader and had just enough talent to get it done when he wasn't handing the ball off to 34.
I'm pretty sure alot of quarterbacks would like a 46-15 record. McMahon had talent. He just didn't believe in going down. He always wanted the extra yard. As a fan, i loved watching him play and spilling his guts out on the field. There's a valid point that it was not the smartest thing to do, but he was a fan quarterback. I would rather watch McMahon go for the extra yard, then watch a Joe Montana due the turtle. Yes, his career was cut short, but i loved every minute of his play and arrogance. He was a perfect fit for Chicago.
For sure...no argument there.
McMahon is one of many lesser rated QB's who have played for great teams. It does happen which goes to show its possible the Jets got better this year not because of Favre, but perhaps because of a rushing attack that produced the 9th most yds/game compared to 19th in 2007, or perhaps because of a defense that produced the 3rd most turnovers in the AFC compared to a defense that ranked last in takeaways in 2007.
I'm not saying the Jets QB play wasn't necessarily improved in 2008 compared to last year, but the fact that the Jets were better this year was certainly not just because they got Brett Favre.
Quote from: Bruce Brakel on December 22, 2008, 08:33:29 PM
Quote from: Tom McManus on December 22, 2008, 06:10:31 PM
I am not getting into the Favre argument, but this last post makes some ridiculous points. Name one team that has won the Super Bowl with their QB that wasn't a hall of famer, or a quarterback who wasn't a hall of famer and underperformed.
The Bears!!! ;D
Brilliant Bruce, I go on to mention the Bears as an example in the same paragraph and you choose not to use it. Amazing.
Quote from: OvEr HaNd AsSaSiN on December 22, 2008, 07:01:01 PM
rex grossman is a hall of famer.. brett farve will never be..
HA :D
Quote from: Tom McManus on December 23, 2008, 05:47:28 PM
Quote from: Bruce Brakel on December 22, 2008, 08:33:29 PM
Quote from: Tom McManus on December 22, 2008, 06:10:31 PM
I am not getting into the Favre argument, but this last post makes some ridiculous points. Name one team that has won the Super Bowl with their QB that wasn't a hall of famer, or a quarterback who wasn't a hall of famer and underperformed.
The Bears!!! ;D
Brilliant Bruce, I go on to mention the Bears as an example in the same paragraph and you choose not to use it. Amazing.
... is pdga.com down again?
Quote from: damonshort on December 23, 2008, 10:13:51 PM
Quote from: Tom McManus on December 23, 2008, 05:47:28 PM
Quote from: Bruce Brakel on December 22, 2008, 08:33:29 PM
Quote from: Tom McManus on December 22, 2008, 06:10:31 PM
I am not getting into the Favre argument, but this last post makes some ridiculous points. Name one team that has won the Super Bowl with their QB that wasn't a hall of famer, or a quarterback who wasn't a hall of famer and underperformed.
The Bears!!! ;D
Brilliant Bruce, I go on to mention the Bears as an example in the same paragraph and you choose not to use it. Amazing.
... is pdga.com down again?
or Tom slept in his scratchy PJs again. I keep telling you Tom, life is short just throw those PJs out! ;D
Oh sweet, I'm bringing this thread back for another summer as the man with the biggest ego in sports is at it again!
After the Jets treated him like royalty last year, he decided to screw with them to get what he wants. Days before the Jets announced his 2nd retirement, Favre asked the Jets to release him (so he can become a free agent) which they obviously rejected (he said he'd play for 2 years then backed out). Then, after the Jets drafted Mark Sanchez he immediately asked the Jets again to be released, which they decided to grant him. Now, he's off to Minnesota looking for a job again.
I have no clue what his love affair with Minnesota is, other than maybe he just really wants to stick it to the Packers by playing in their division. Does Minnesota seriously want a 40 year old with a torn tendon in his bicep who didn't have a QB rating higher than 65 in his final 5 games last season? I hope so!
Dan,
That is EXACTLY what he has wanted to do! Although I tend to believe it was less about screwing the Pack than screwing Ted Thompson.
As it stands, I am quite content with our QB. BTW, your assessment of the Pack from last year as a whole was spot on, IMO.
Now on to the Bears, who gave up WAAAAAY too much for Cutler. Does he have talent? Yes. The other questions are more of a problem. Is he a headcase? How does he react to leading a team that choked in historic fashion last year? It will certainly be interesting to watch this year.
Stenky...
Quote from: Dan Michler on May 06, 2009, 10:42:17 AM
Oh sweet, I'm bringing this thread back for another summer as the man with the biggest ego in sports is at it again!
After the Jets treated him like royalty last year, he decided to screw with them to get what he wants. Days before the Jets announced his 2nd retirement, Favre asked the Jets to release him (so he can become a free agent) which they obviously rejected (he said he'd play for 2 years then backed out). Then, after the Jets drafted Mark Sanchez he immediately asked the Jets again to be released, which they decided to grant him. Now, he's off to Minnesota looking for a job again.
I have no clue what his love affair with Minnesota is, other than maybe he just really wants to stick it to the Packers by playing in their division. Does Minnesota seriously want a 40 year old with a torn tendon in his bicep who didn't have a QB rating higher than 65 in his final 5 games last season? I hope so!
I would be extremely surprised if Minnesota signed him. Why would they a 40 year old QB like you said when they have Tavaris Jackson and Sage Rosenfells (however you spell his last name) vying for a job and a possibility of having a decent franchise QB in Jackson if he can hang on to the ball. The point is the only use Minnesota could have for Favre is maybe a third string QB and who wants to pay a third stringer the money that a guy like Favre would want. As far as what Favre feels in Minnesota is maybe because its so close to Wisconsin and he could play he Packers and Aaron Rogers twice a season. I'm just annoyed and will never believe Favre anymore, how many times is he going to retire? In the end, Favre will most likely end up playing football again in the 2009 season, and if it is for the Minnesota Vikings I will be shaking my head. At least the Bears are hopefullly going to have a great QB in Jay Cutler.
Just retired already he has to be the center of attention all the time and it is getting really annoying
Brett Favre is a joke. He just likes to hear people talk about him. I hope he goes to the Vikings. Maybe his arm will stop working before it did last year. I think that was around week 12 or so.
He tainted his career with too many tearful goodbyes. Even as a Bears fan, I can honestly say he could have retired as the best there ever was at QB with Green Bay. Maybe he still is -- yes, he is -- but now it feels less genuine.
Well it finally happened today. One of the greatest quarterbacks of all time is now a traitor. Time for me to change my avator. :'(
Hopefully he can make it to Oct 5 for Monday Night Football when Aaron Rodgers and crew put the smack down on the Vikings.
Ha! Its like people were saying all along, he just didn't want to be a part of training camp which ended a couple of days ago. What a fantastic teammate! I can't wait to hear what his BS reasoning is this time as to why he said he was absolutely finished a few weeks ago and suddenly has had a change of heart.
Comincioli must be pumped! His boy will be on TV again so his Favre boner can return as well.
Money talks....
October 5th. Mark it down, the day of reckoning for Favre and the whole country to see.
I don't think he'd wait just to sit out training camp. Has been back-up QBs don't really have to do much during training camp. Up and comer back-up QBs have to put on a show but Farve could just put a knee brace on and take it easy. He'd have to play during the pre-season games but presumably that is what he likes.
Where did McMahon go to sit on the bench after the Bears released him?
Quote from: Jon Brakel on August 18, 2009, 10:46:36 AM
I don't think he'd wait just to sit out training camp. Has been back-up QBs don't really have to do much during training camp. Up and comer back-up QBs have to put on a show but Farve could just put a knee brace on and take it easy. He'd have to play during the pre-season games but presumably that is what he likes.
Where did McMahon go to sit on the bench after the Bears released him?
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-116/Favre-manages-to-skip-training-camp----and-still-get-in.html (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-116/Favre-manages-to-skip-training-camp----and-still-get-in.html)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090818/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_vikings_favre (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090818/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_vikings_favre)
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9922912/The-vibe-at-Vikings-camp:-Favre-could-come-back (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9922912/The-vibe-at-Vikings-camp:-Favre-could-come-back)
Just 3 random stories I found in a minute supporting that Favre hates training camp and wanted to avoid it. I haven't personally spoken with him, but it seems hard to deny these reports after he
suddenly decides 3 days after camp that his body is healed. But he never lies so just take his word for it.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JAtlQGqPg_M/SlQFo1Y4-nI/AAAAAAAABVo/JitcmYLU6UQ/s1600/bengay.jpg)
Quote from: Dan Michler on August 18, 2009, 11:17:14 AM
Quote from: Jon Brakel on August 18, 2009, 10:46:36 AM
I don't think he'd wait just to sit out training camp. Has been back-up QBs don't really have to do much during training camp. Up and comer back-up QBs have to put on a show but Farve could just put a knee brace on and take it easy. He'd have to play during the pre-season games but presumably that is what he likes.
Where did McMahon go to sit on the bench after the Bears released him?
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-116/Favre-manages-to-skip-training-camp----and-still-get-in.html (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-13-116/Favre-manages-to-skip-training-camp----and-still-get-in.html)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090818/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_vikings_favre (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090818/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_vikings_favre)
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9922912/The-vibe-at-Vikings-camp:-Favre-could-come-back (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9922912/The-vibe-at-Vikings-camp:-Favre-could-come-back)
Just 3 random stories I found in a minute supporting that Favre hates training camp and wanted to avoid it. I haven't personally spoken with him, but it seems hard to deny these reports after he suddenly decides 3 days after camp that his body is healed. But he never lies so just take his word for it.
I believe it without clicking on anything. I didn't do any research...I just figured that a guy that old would know how to avoid doing any real training at training camp if he was motivated properly. Maybe he isn't as smart as he looks?
I like watching Favre play QB and wish he was with the Bears all those years he was with the Packers.
I am not excited to see him playing for the Vikings. If he's healthy the Vikings are the favorites to win the NFC North. I actually think he'll help my #1 draft pick in fantasy.
He took a terrible 2007 Jets team 4-12 to 9-7 last year. I believe if he was healthy for the 2nd half of the year the Jets would have made the playoffs.
Part of me wants to see Favre win a Super Bowl with the Vikings so that he'll retire with as many championships with the Vikings as he had with the Packers.
Another part of me wants to see him embarass himself with more performances like he had down the stretch last year with the Jets.
As a Bears fan, I feel like I've already won, which is important heading into a season where the Bears might not actually win that many games.
Quote from: Jon Brakel on August 18, 2009, 10:46:36 AM
I don't think he'd wait just to sit out training camp. Has been back-up QBs don't really have to do much during training camp. Up and comer back-up QBs have to put on a show but Farve could just put a knee brace on and take it easy. He'd have to play during the pre-season games but presumably that is what he likes.
Where did McMahon go to sit on the bench after the Bears released him?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McMaJi00.htm
...actually, I'd forgotten how many places he actually went (other than SD and ending up @ GB - he technically played less than half his career with the Bears), but then again I haven't paid a lot of attention to football since Payton retired....
Quote from: damonshort on August 18, 2009, 12:04:08 PM
Quote from: Jon Brakel on August 18, 2009, 10:46:36 AM
I don't think he'd wait just to sit out training camp. Has been back-up QBs don't really have to do much during training camp. Up and comer back-up QBs have to put on a show but Farve could just put a knee brace on and take it easy. He'd have to play during the pre-season games but presumably that is what he likes.
Where did McMahon go to sit on the bench after the Bears released him?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McMaJi00.htm
...actually, I'd forgotten how many places he actually went (other than SD and ending up @ GB - he technically played less than half his career with the Bears), but then again I haven't paid a lot of attention to football since Payton retired....
McMahon just didn't have a body made for a 16 game season plus playoffs. You see it looking at his career starts. After playing as starting QB for the Bears for a few years he was too banged up to even play a half season. He really had two careers. One with the Bears as the starting QB and one as a traveling backup QB. He was solid in both roles.
My point with bringing up McMahon though was that if Farve hadn't been such a whiny little bitch and just played for the Packers until they didn't want him anymore instead of crying about retiring and then crying when he decided he wanted to come back, then people wouldn't even remember in a few years that he ever played for anyone other than the Packers.
Favre signing with Vikings= Bad news for you Bears Fans!!
Cutler wouldn't have made that much of a difference anyway with NO WR's to throw the ball to!
The over under for Favre getting knocked out should be about 3 games.
That seems like a ton of money for a person with a torn cuff on the throwing shoulder.
The owner must be gay for Brett.
;D
Quote from: pdga#7648 on August 18, 2009, 01:55:31 PM
Favre signing with Vikings= Bad news for you Bears Fans!!
Cutler wouldn't have made that much of a difference anyway with NO WR's to throw the ball to!
I don't think it will be that big, it's more bad news for packers fans actually, the unfaithful Farve. We will see if any WRs step it up this year. Vikings will be throwing lots of picks that's for sure.
all you bears fans think that just the packers have to deal with him this year. but wait dont the bears play the vikings in two games this year to.so it looks like the bears will also be 0-2 against farve, after 17 yrs of gettin pounded by farve.
As a Packer fan and a Favre fan, more power to him. I am not sure what the Packer fans have to be upset about, the Packers decided to move on without Favre. Minnesota seems to be the best fit for him. I could certainly do without the theatrics, but I guess that is part of his make up that made him so exciting for so many years. Hopefully it will work out for him, it seems to have worked out for the Packers. Time will tell on Aaron Rogers. He needs to perform better in the fourth quarter, but overall for a first year started his statistics were outstanding. I am hoping the Packers play better defense this year.
The Bears still suck.
Quote from: Tom McManus on August 19, 2009, 03:35:19 PM
As a Packer fan and a Favre fan, more power to him. I am not sure what the Packer fans have to be upset about, the Packers decided to move on without Favre. Minnesota seems to be the best fit for him. I could certainly do without the theatrics, but I guess that is part of his make up that made him so exciting for so many years. Hopefully it will work out for him, it seems to have worked out for the Packers. Time will tell on Aaron Rogers. He needs to perform better in the fourth quarter, but overall for a first year started his statistics were outstanding. I am hoping the Packers play better defense this year.
The Bears still suck.
91-
80-
6 Packers suck more! ;D
The Packer fans I talked to said they would not have been as upset had he said I want to come back to any team that wants me. Then if the Vikings out bid everyone that would be ok. But he specifically wanted to play for the Vikings to get back at the Packers for some reason I don't know or understand not being a Packer fan. I just can't wait to have AP go down for a couple weeks with a leg injury then watch Favre realize that he is too old for this game and can't control it as he used to. I think we will see what happened when he was with the Jets, great first half, then father time shows up and he can't compete. Also, he seems to be a marked man in the NFC North, a lot of players are salivating to knock him on his back. This definitely makes the NFC North one of the top divisions in regards to QBs, should be fun to watch but I think the North will come down to the Pack and the Bears still. I mean, really who is Favre going to throw to? Berrian? If he decides to try? AP can't do it all on his own. Neither can Favre.
Minnesota has 2 great lines, running back, recievers, and a pretty good secondary. They win the division easily. Bears can't cover a man hole! Bears defense is in for a long year. Favre knows he has a good O line. He will play well until that one hit to the throwing shoulder knocks him out. Their line could make Rex Grossman look good. I hope I'm wrong!
I think the Vikings will come out hot now that they have Favre, win early, but I think they will use up all their energy by the middle of the season trying to come out so fast. Doesn't the NFL still have cases against the "Williams Twins" that they keep pushing back punishment? They could be suspended for a few games which could really hurt in the long run. Also, remember when when the Vikings were the best team in football a few years ago and they lost in the first round? I could totally see this team following suit.
Quote from: cjordan on August 19, 2009, 02:57:54 PM
all you bears fans think that just the packers have to deal with him this year. but wait dont the bears play the vikings in two games this year to.so it looks like the bears will also be 0-2 against farve, after 17 yrs of gettin pounded by farve.
Since 2005, brett favavare and the rest of the stinky cheeseheads are 2-6 against DA Bears...look it up. did you stop watching the fudge packers after the 2004 season?
I'm interested to see what its like when he goes back to play in Green Bay later this year. There are a large number of fans that really want to see his head get knocked off!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-favrereaction081809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-favrereaction081809&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)
Personally I feel that any fan that wants to see Farve get hurt is not a fan of football... I hope he does well and look forward to watching what unfolds this season.. On the bonus side of things it is easier to get tickets for a game in MN then it is for a bears or gb game..
Brett has family in MN and WI... U think that may be a reason he wants to play in the midwest? or the indoor stadium? he is a southern hick after all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VfHnCwLp14 fairly funny ending.
Unreal pass to finish that game off yesterday! He looks good in Purple.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on September 28, 2009, 07:01:34 PM
Unreal pass to finish that game off yesterday! He looks good in Purple.
I am just happy he didn't end up as a bear. That would have been hard to stomach.
Quote from: Tom McManus on September 28, 2009, 07:05:03 PM
Quote from: CEValkyrie on September 28, 2009, 07:01:34 PM
Unreal pass to finish that game off yesterday! He looks good in Purple.
I am just happy he didn't end up as a bear. That would have been hard to stomach.
I am still hoping that he will be a WR for the Bears next year.
That was very enjoyable watching the Packers get Favred last night.
How long until Rodgers is broken? He keeps taking a beating.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on October 06, 2009, 04:23:35 AM
That was very enjoyable watching the Packers get Favred last night.
How long until Rodgers is broken? He keeps taking a beating.
I'm wondering how the Packers fans are feeling after that. What kind of defensive scheme was THAT anyways? For most of the game, the Packers decided to not rush the passer at all. There were a number of plays where I noticed 6 Vikings blocking and 3 packers just standing on the defensive line. And your best pass rusher Kampman was dropped into coverage all night? WTF? If I was a Green Bay fan I would have turned that game off after the 1st half. If you give JaMarcus Russell as much time as he wants, he'll complete 75% of his passes too. Turning the ball over in the redzone multiple times doesn't help either. Going to be a long season Packers fans. You might not want to watch the next Vikings-Packers matchup in 4 weeks in Lambeau.
The Danimal was calling Favre "The Purple Jesus". Too funny!
It was a fun game to watch...
I can't wait to see Favre do the leap in Green Bay.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on October 06, 2009, 04:23:35 AM
That was very enjoyable watching the Packers get Favred last night.
How long until Rodgers is broken? He keeps taking a beating.
Great day of football.
#1 The Bears won
#2 That is awesome seeing Favre go back home and throw 4 TD passes. Too bad he did not take the leap. I enjoyed the booing. Aren't the Packer fans happy with their own quarterback? TT said he was not good enough to play for the Packers so why all the hate?
#3. Although the Bears won't make the playoffs this season would be perfect if MN wins the Super Bowl.
Favre goes to Jets...Mangini fired. Favre goes to Vikes....Childress fired. He has taken the title of Coach Killer away from Vick.
He's turned it over 22 times this year, but when I turned on the Vikings on Fox the other day, Joe Buck made it seem like he was a potential MVP candidate.
That win on Sunday had to feel good for Aaron Rodgers. No sane person can possibly say now that the Packers did the wrong thing in choosing #12 over #4.
That being said, my Bears are still somehow in 1st place. Sunday against Vick and the Eagles should be interesting. I recall the Bears having success against Vick when he was with the Falcons. Make him run to his right and we'll be okay. As for scoring points though, we need a miracle.
Is everybody pumped for New England @ Detroit on Thursday!
Quote from: Dan Michler on November 23, 2010, 08:32:42 AM
That win on Sunday had to feel good for Aaron Rodgers. No sane person can possibly say now that the Packers did the wrong thing in choosing #12 over #4.
So, I'm insane because I believe that the Packers pushed Favre out before he was ready to go? Take a look at his stats from last season and try to argue that he was washed up
before his last season with the Packers.
All players are replaced....eventually. Special players are typically given the luxury to decide when it's time to hang up the cleats. I believe Favre accomplished enough (Super Bowl Championship & countless records) in his time with Green Bay to make the decision on his own. The Packers forced his hand, publicly no less. They should have just cut him and said that they wanted to go in another direction.
Sure some fans would have been shocked and upset but at the end of the day, fans are cheering for the team. The ridiculous trade that sent Favre to the Jets was proof that the Packers knew Farve could still play at a Pro Bowl-caliber level. There's an old saying in Wisconsin...you can't have your cheese and eat it too. Apparently the Packers management forgot about it while dealing with Favre.
Are you old enough to remember when Neal Anderson took over for Walter Payton? The Bears drafted Anderson in the first round of the 1986 Draft...yes, only about 3 months after Super Bowl XX. Do you remember anybody asking Payton to retire? Neal Anderson made multiple Pro Bowls and was considered to be one of the best running backs in the NFL in the late 80's--early 90's.
What exactly has Rodgers accomplished that makes him a "special" player on the same level or better than Favre? I think Rodgers has to win 2 Super Bowls to justify making the switch before Favre was ready to hang up the cleats.
I'm with Dan on this one. I agree that Favre is not the same QB today that he was even two years ago. However, Rogers was seen as the future and Favre, who had already begun the yearly soap opera of would he v. wouldn't he, was closer to the end (now) of his career. A good, cold blooded, GM knew that if he made Rogers wait any longer he would lose him. he also knew that Favre's ability and willingness were an open issue each Summer. He made a good choice. The Bears never had this problem. A smart GM, seeing that Payton was nearing his end, drafted Anderson. Payton was never the type to make a soap opera out of his willingness to play another season. He quit when he felt he was no longer running like a Hall of Fame RB. He had regressed to merely great. The Bears got a number of excellent years out of Anderson. There was clearly an overlap but neither back made it an issue. Its always an issue with Favre. Rogers may never turn out to be the Hall of Famer that Favre is. Anderson wasn't. He was an excellent but not all time great RB. We will see with Rogers. In any case, the Packers are, and the Bears were, better off with the new guy. At the time the Packers made the move it was a closer call. Favre had not yet deteriorated. Rogers had not yet shown how good he is. Rogers will be with the Packers for a while. Favre will be fishing or opening his zpper somewhere. That GM made the right call for the long run. It may have been a push at that time but it was a great move when measured over a period of time.
I'm not sure that Favre was the one who made an issue out of will he or won't he return for another season. I think it was/still is the media at large that keeps peppering him and everyone else with the retirement questions. We don't have to read the articles or watch the interviews. He seems to be painfully honest. I think it sucks that people can not handle honesty.
If we were talking about 99.99% of the NFL players, I would absolutely agree with you. But I think players like Favre, Payton and other all-time great players should be able to decide when it's time to go. I'm not saying that they should be handed the starting job, but they should be given an opportunity to at least compete for playing time. If the coaches (not the GM) feel that a future Hall of Famer is not as good as the back up, then watch him ride the bench. How long would that situation last? My guess is about 2 or 3 minutes.
I am going to go with Barish on this one. While it would have been great to see Brett retire as a Packer, the Packer management absolutely made the right decision in going with Aaron Rodgers. Unfortunately just about every great player stays past their prime. Barry Sanders and Jim Brown being the exceptions.
I do not understand the Favre hating, a few years ago by Packer fans, and today by just about everyone. I do think Favre is completely honest in his feelings. When he said he didn't know if he was coming back or not I am taking him at his word. I am glad to see the Packers take it to the Vikings and everyone else they play, but it is difficult to see Favre do so poorly right now.
I wish him the best but he put the Packers in a tough position and they had to make a tough decision, and having the benefit of time, the right decision.
Quote from: jasonc on November 23, 2010, 11:11:20 AM
Quote from: Dan Michler on November 23, 2010, 08:32:42 AM
That win on Sunday had to feel good for Aaron Rodgers. No sane person can possibly say now that the Packers did the wrong thing in choosing #12 over #4.
So, I'm insane because I believe that the Packers pushed Favre out before he was ready to go? Take a look at his stats from last season and try to argue that he was washed up before his last season with the Packers.
What exactly has Rodgers accomplished that makes him a "special" player on the same level or better than Favre? I think Rodgers has to win 2 Super Bowls to justify making the switch before Favre was ready to hang up the cleats.
Yes, if as a Packer fan you would rather have #4 at QB right now instead of #12, you are insane. I'm sorry to have to diagnose you, but its the truth. The Packers have a pretty good chance of making it to the Super Bowl this year. If you think things would be just as promising with Favre behind center this year, you are blind.
I think most NFL fans can plainly see that Aaron Rodgers is one of the top 5 QB's in the game today (Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Rivers) . Understand that if you had waited until Favre was 'ready', you may have ended up watching Aaron Rodgers play for another team. Instead you went from having Favre for 16 years directly into the Aaron Rodgers era which looks promising for about the next 10 years. I'd say Rodgers has a pretty good chance of at least equaling or surpassing Favre's championship total of 1. If you don't appreciate Rodgers, then I'd gladly take him in Chicago.
Quote from: Tom McManus on November 23, 2010, 02:56:47 PM
I wish him the best but he put the Packers in a tough position and they had to make a tough decision, and having the benefit of time, the right decision.
I think it's funny that a Packers fan believes that Favre put the Packers in a tough position. I believe the team forced his hand when they should have been thanking him for bringing the franchise back from the bottom feeders of the NFL.
As much as I hate the Pack, I certainly understand and respect what he accomplished while he was there. I would be shocked if any current or future player even comes close to his streak. If the Packers management respected Farve even a little bit his last few years in cheeseheadland, he would have been released instead of traded with the crazy "no trade to an NFC North team clause".
I understand the potential that comes with Rodgers, but that's all it is today. Sure his stats look real nice but he has not taken his team to the Super Bowl. This is certainly an argument that will not be decided until Rodgers plays his last NFL game.
Dan, Rodgers and Rivers should not be mentioned in the same class with the Super Bowl Champions you mentioned until they have the ring as well.
Quote from: Dan Michler on November 24, 2010, 05:55:02 AM
Quote from: jasonc on November 23, 2010, 11:11:20 AM
Quote from: Dan Michler on November 23, 2010, 08:32:42 AM
That win on Sunday had to feel good for Aaron Rodgers. No sane person can possibly say now that the Packers did the wrong thing in choosing #12 over #4.
So, I'm insane because I believe that the Packers pushed Favre out before he was ready to go? Take a look at his stats from last season and try to argue that he was washed up before his last season with the Packers.
What exactly has Rodgers accomplished that makes him a "special" player on the same level or better than Favre? I think Rodgers has to win 2 Super Bowls to justify making the switch before Favre was ready to hang up the cleats.
The Packers have a pretty good chance of making it to the Super Bowl this year.
don't all the NFC teams, excluding the Lions, Panthers, and Vikings?? cause the NFC, any team can find a way to the Superbowl. But in the far superior AFC, if your not from New England, Pittsburgh or Indy, your most likely watching instead of playing.
But on the topic at hand.
Brett needs to find a way to settle whatever happened in Green Bay, sign a deal, and RETIRE as he should, a PACKER! Don't play another game, just sign a $1.00 contract so he can be in the HOF, again, a Packer!
As the new head coach in Minnesota, I would also sit Brett down and say listen. I have 6 games to prove I can coach, and we need to see if Tavaris is our guy, or if we need to look at drafting a QB. you will be my #2 since you are 3-7 and our season is over. If he quit, at least you wouldn't have to hear about sitting him the next 6 weeks.
Quote from: jasonc on November 24, 2010, 09:07:07 AM
Dan, Rodgers and Rivers should not be mentioned in the same class with the Super Bowl Champions you mentioned until they have the ring as well.
You don't have to win a championship to be considered one of the great players of all-time. Teams win championships, not QB's. This is a really weak argument. Especially when you consider Favre played on a perennial contender and only managed 1 title in his career. I don't think you need me to list off some mediocre QB's who won titles, but I'll do it anyways: Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Eli Manning, Brad Johnson, and we could go on...
Dan Marino is certainly considered among the greats of all-time. John Elway never won a title in his prime, then won back-to-back at the end of his career. Is anybody arguing he was a better QB in 1998 than he was in 1987? Peyton Manning and Steve Young had a hard time finding that first Super Bowl victory. Had they retired before they got that ring, would they still not be considred among the best ever?
Winning titles is absolutely something you consider when stacking up the best who ever played, but it is not a prerequisite to making the list.
By the way, I did not rank Rodgers and Rivers ahead of Manning/Brady/Brees. Which other QB in the game today do you have ahead of those 2? Maybe you could debate putting Rothelisberger in the top 5. After that? Are you telling me you'd rather have Eli? Romo? McNabb? Who?
If I was an NFL GM and we were starting the league over with a fantasy style draft today, I've got:
1. Peyton Manning 1st on my draft board (I'm an automatic contender every year no matter who else I get, sure he's getting older but I think he's got 4 great years left followed by 3 more quality seasons from a guy who has never missed a game)
2. Rodgers (he moves up my board because of the age factor)
3. Brees
4. Brady (he moves down my board because of A. the haircut and B. the knee injury 2 years ago combined with the age factor)
5. Rivers.
I'm not touching Big Ben cuz A. he's a douche. and B. he's a major douche.
McManus, what does your draft board look like? I think if we had an all-time draft board, I'd still have Manning #1.
a douche who has won 2 titles faster than anyone else ever. us Steeler fans will take that anyday.
and, once again, he was NOT GUILTY. Give the guy a break. ever think that chick knew what she was trying to do? we weren't there, we don't know the truth! ;)
Quote from: Dan Michler on November 24, 2010, 11:37:08 AM
Quote from: jasonc on November 24, 2010, 09:07:07 AM
Dan, Rodgers and Rivers should not be mentioned in the same class with the Super Bowl Champions you mentioned until they have the ring as well.
Winning titles is absolutely something you consider when stacking up the best who ever played, but it is not a prerequisite to making the list.
By the way, I did not rank Rodgers and Rivers ahead of Manning/Brady/Brees. Which other QB in the game today do you have ahead of those 2? Maybe you could debate putting Rothelisberger in the top 5. After that? Are you telling me you'd rather have Eli? Romo? McNabb? Who?
If I was an NFL GM and we were starting the league over with a fantasy style draft today, I've got:
1. Peyton Manning 1st on my draft board (I'm an automatic contender every year no matter who else I get, sure he's getting older but I think he's got 4 great years left followed by 3 more quality seasons from a guy who has never missed a game)
2. Rodgers (he moves up my board because of the age factor)
3. Brees
4. Brady (he moves down my board because of A. the haircut and B. the knee injury 2 years ago combined with the age factor)
5. Rivers.
I'm not touching Big Ben cuz A. he's a douche. and B. he's a major douche.
McManus, what does your draft board look like? I think if we had an all-time draft board, I'd still have Manning #1.
I can't disagree with you at all on the list you have of current quarterbacks- for the regular season. Peyton does not put up the great numbers in the playoffs, but what qb does? I would like to see a few more years out of Aaron Rodgers before I put him as number 2 of the current qbs, or I should say I really hope to see a few more years.
Here is my short list of all time qbs:
1. Joe Montana
2. Bart Starr
3. Unitas,Warner, Steve Young, Elway, Marino, Favre, Brady, Manning
Statistically all the #3 qbs are pretty similar. They have all won some big games and lost their share.
It is tough enough comparing qbs in different systems let alone different eras, but here is a chart of qbs and their playoff results:
Player Playoff Games Wins Losses TDs INTs Rating
Bart Starr 10 9 1 15 3 104.8
Kurt Warner 13 9 4 31 14 102.8
Joe Montana 23 16 7 45 21 95.6
Peyton Manning 18 9 9 28 19 87.6
Ben Roethlisberger 10 8 2 15 12 87.2
Brett Favre 24 13 11 44 30 86.3
Steve Young 20 12 8 20 13 85.8
Tom Brady 18 14 4 28 15 85.5
Terry Bradshaw 19 14 5 30 26 83
John Elway 22 14 8 27 21 79.7
Dan Marino 18 8 10 32 24 77.1
Roger Staubach 19 12 7 24 19 76
Jim Kelly 17 9 8 21 28 72.3
Dan Fouts 7 3 4 12 16 70
Johnny Unitas 9 6 3 7 10 68.9
Bob Griese 12 7 5 10 12 68.3
Fran Tarkenton 11 6 5 11 17 58.6
Joe Namath 3 2 1 3 4 54.6
Starr, Warner, and Montana are statisically way ahead of the rest of the group. There are a number of guys who all have similar stats. Football is by far the most difficult game to compare statistics due to the team nature of the sport, but Starr's statistics are pretty amazing when compared to the players then and the players of today. It will be interesting to see how Rodgers and Rivers end up in the long run. Phillip Rivers is putting up some incredible numbers this season. Back to your top 5 Dan, if the draft were today with the players where they are at in their careers, I would go:
1. Rivers
2. Rodgers
3. Brees
4. Manning
5. Brady.
Short term Manning and Brady may be better, but long term I would go with Rivers and Rodgers.
As you stated, its tough to compare the QB's of yesterday to the QB's of today. Passing has increased each decade. 3000 yds used to be the bench mark, now its 4000 yds. All you can do is compare each QB to his peers in the era in which he played. The thing that impresses me about Manning is the consistency and the ability to always give his team a chance. If there is 1 guy I don't want to be facing with my team ahead 4 and 2 minutes on the clock, its Manning.
That being said, most of us become biased more towards the players of today. Its hard to remember just how great some players were 10 or 20 years ago.
Attached is a link to a very interesting article that ranks the NFL Franchises. Packers come in at #1. I think the Bears could be a spot higher and I am surprised that the 49ers are as high as they are. I think the Steelers are in the right position, maybe a spot or two too high but pretty close to wear they should be.
http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2260_A_CHFF_epic%3A_all-time_franchise_rankings.html
Quote from: Dan Michler on November 24, 2010, 11:37:08 AM
Quote from: jasonc on November 24, 2010, 09:07:07 AM
Dan, Rodgers and Rivers should not be mentioned in the same class with the Super Bowl Champions you mentioned until they have the ring as well.
You don't have to win a championship to be considered one of the great players of all-time. Teams win championships, not QB's. This is a really weak argument. Especially when you consider Favre played on a perennial contender and only managed 1 title in his career. I don't think you need me to list off some mediocre QB's who won titles, but I'll do it anyways: Jim McMahon, Trent Dilfer, Eli Manning, Brad Johnson, and we could go on...
Dan Marino is certainly considered among the greats of all-time. John Elway never won a title in his prime, then won back-to-back at the end of his career. Is anybody arguing he was a better QB in 1998 than he was in 1987? Peyton Manning and Steve Young had a hard time finding that first Super Bowl victory. Had they retired before they got that ring, would they still not be considred among the best ever?
Winning titles is absolutely something you consider when stacking up the best who ever played, but it is not a prerequisite to making the list.
By the way, I did not rank Rodgers and Rivers ahead of Manning/Brady/Brees. Which other QB in the game today do you have ahead of those 2? Maybe you could debate putting Rothelisberger in the top 5. After that? Are you telling me you'd rather have Eli? Romo? McNabb? Who?
I'm sorry, I thought we were discussing whether or not the Packers let Favre go too early and the manner in which they traded him. You obviously do not want to address the topic any longer and made a nice segway into a debate on the best QB's in today's game.
In closing the previous debate, I still believe that the Pack royally messed up Favre's departure from the Land of Cheese. He was still capable--see Favre's 2009 Pro Bowl season and more importantly, the fact that he led his team to the NFC Championship game AFTER he was deemed not worthy of wearing the green and yellow. Football games are played to determine a winner, not to figure out who puts up the best stats against teams like the Lions and Bills.
The players who make this game great are all too often kicked to the curb as soon as they are deemed to be unfit for the current 5 year plan. Whenever the NFL owners and other top management want to start acknowledging that it's the players who make this game so popular, there will be no need for the union or any other player's rights advocacy group. If you think the NFL takes care of the players, just ask Ditka, Butkus, Sayers, or anyone else associated with the Gridiron Greats. http://www.gridirongreats.org/
I will certainly argue that Elway was a better QB later in his career. Over time, he learned how to win big games. He proved it with 2 Super Bowl Championships. People don't remember how many rushing yards Walter Payton had back in 1979. But we all remember that he helped the Bears win a Super Bowl in 1985.
You can focus on all of the fantasy stats for days if that's your bag. From my point of view, there is only one stat that matters. In your "I'm an NFL GM fantasy game", I will still take the QB's that win most often. If possible, the one who has proven it at the NFL level.
So here is my list:
1) Brady
2) Manning
3) Big Ben
4) Brees
5) Pick 'em
Quote from: Tom McManus on November 28, 2010, 02:33:58 AM
Attached is a link to a very interesting article that ranks the NFL Franchises. Packers come in at #1. I think the Bears could be a spot higher and I am surprised that the 49ers are as high as they are. I think the Steelers are in the right position, maybe a spot or two too high but pretty close to wear they should be.
http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2260_A_CHFF_epic%3A_all-time_franchise_rankings.html
That's a very comprehensive article. Unfortunately, it is a little outdated. The Bears just earned victory #701.
How many other NFL franchises have won 700+ games?
Quote from: jasonc on November 29, 2010, 08:30:52 AM
Quote from: Tom McManus on November 28, 2010, 02:33:58 AM
Attached is a link to a very interesting article that ranks the NFL Franchises. Packers come in at #1. I think the Bears could be a spot higher and I am surprised that the 49ers are as high as they are. I think the Steelers are in the right position, maybe a spot or two too high but pretty close to wear they should be.
http://coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2260_A_CHFF_epic%3A_all-time_franchise_rankings.html
That's a very comprehensive article. Unfortunately, it is a little outdated. The Bears just earned victory #701.
How many other NFL franchises have won 700+ games?
I believe no other teams have won 700.
I have no problem with the Packers wanting to dump Farve a few years ago. I think it was BS to limit him of where he wanted to go. If they thought he was washed up they should have allowed him to go where he wanted.
It's plain and simple. If you don't have a QB in the NFL you aren't going to win games.
Farve went to a Jets team in 08 that had a record of 4-12 the previous season. He played pretty good the first half of the season and they started out 8-3. They won pne of the last 5 to finish the season at 9-7. He didn't play well and they didn't win down the stretch.
Last year was an unbelievable year in MN and one of Farve's greates seasons. Farve played awesome and damn near went to the super bowl.
It's been pretty ugly this year. Farve has played like crap and the results show on the field. I don't watch or listen to all the bullshit with Farve. The media is all about that. If you didn't watch the week 7 game to the end at Green Bay you have no idea what a true football player is. You will NEVER see a QB play the game like Farve. His career is impressive.
| Year | Age | Games | Cmp | Att | Cmp% | Yds | TD | TD% | Int | Int% | Lng | Y/G | Rate |
| 2008 | 39 | 16 | 343 | 522 | 65.7 | 3472 | 22 | 4.2 | 22 | 4.2 | 56 | 217 | 81 |
| 2009 | 40 | 16 | 363 | 531 | 68.4 | 4202 | 33 | 6.2 | 7 | 1.3 | 63 | 262.6 | 107.2 |
| 2010 | 41 | 11 | 212 | 350 | 60.6 | 2446 | 10 | 2.9 | 17 | 4.9 | 53 | 222.4 | 71 |
| 2008 | 25 | 16 | 341 | 536 | 63.6 | 4038 | 28 | 5.2 | 13 | 2.4 | 71 | 252.4 | 93.8 |
| 2009 | 26 | 16 | 350 | 541 | 64.7 | 4434 | 30 | 5.5 | 7 | 1.3 | 83 | 277.1 | 103.2 |
| 2010 | 27 | 11 | 240 | 369 | 65 | 2945 | 20 | 5.4 | 9 | 2.4 | 86 | 267.7 | 97.4 |
The key stat above is the age. Favre did have a great year last year, and he still can show flashes of brilliance. But age has caught up with him. I think the Packers offered him a million a year for 30 years to continue to represent the Packers. I don't think that is exactly disrespecting him. OJ ended up with the 49ers, Johnny Unitas with the San Diego Chargers, Joe Namath with the Rams, and Franco Harris with the Seattle Seahawks. That is just to name a few Hall of Famers. It doesn't diminish their legacy or their contributions to their original teams. At a certain point everyone has to move on, allowing Favre to go to Minnesota right off the bat just so he could stick it to the Packers would not have been the right thing to do as an organization. Rodgers hasn't won a playoff game yet, but a 51-45 shootout certainly wasn't his fault.
Favre ended up number 20 on the top 100 NFL players. I personally would have him in the top 10 due to his longevity, what he brings to the game, and his energy. There won't be another like him.
Quote from: jasonc on November 29, 2010, 08:27:10 AM
So here is my list:
1) Brady
2) Manning
3) Big Ben
4) Brees
5) Pick 'em
Why is Manning ahead of Big Ben on your list? Ben has 2 championships to Manning's 1. Just curious...
[/quote]
Why is Manning ahead of Big Ben on your list? Ben has 2 championships to Manning's 1. Just curious...
[/quote]
I put him there because when the Colts won the Super Bowl, he was the MVP. He was also the league MVP in '08 and '09. The Colts have more total wins with Manning than the Steelers do with Roethlisberger since his rookie year back in '05.
Ben should NOT be considered in the yop 5 at all. Yes, he has 2 rings, but he did not win them himself. Parker and the refs helped vs Seattle. Maybe he won the game vs Arizona, but still not worthy, and this comes from the biggest Steeler fan anyone here will ever know.
Watch a Steeler game, and just watch how many times he starts to throw, only to pull it down and try to run, but either fumbles or gets sacked. I bet I have yelled at him to throw the damn ball at least 70 times this year. he is so uncertain back there, that he may have a tough time breaking the top 10.
1. Brady (helps having a cheater as a coach)
2. Manning (is the best many of us will ever see play this position)
3. Brees ( talent around him is unreal)
4. Rodgers (one of the best mentors in Favre)
5. Rivers or Schaub ( neither have a ring, but both have potential to throw for over 5,000 yds in a season)
I have been enjoying the QB rating derby from the sidelines.
I see two types of great quarterbacks. There are the gritty winners. These are guys like Montana, Rothlisberger, Staubach, Aikman, Stabler,.Theisman, Bart Starr Some are good and some are great. Some are lucky to be on great teams. They just know how to win.. Sometimes lesser talents prove to be winners. McMahon was one of these guys.
The second group are the QB savants. These guys have tremendous talent and some simply put up gaudy stats but never won the big game. This was not always their fault. Marino and Tarkington come to mind. At times Flutie, Fouts and Testaverde were in this catagory.
The rare air group did both- Unitis, Elway, Brady, Manning, Brees, Favre. (I edited this in and did not mean to exclude him!)
I know I am overlooking a few. I think Brady tends towards the first group. He is a tough SOB. Rtholisberger is not a great QB but is a great winner. Manning is more of a savant who got one win and may never get another. Elway would have been in that group if he did not win two at the end of his career. I think Brees and Brady truely have both qualities in spades. I think Manning is the most talented. Of the current players, Rivers may be more of a savant. Its still early for him. I think Rogers is awesome and may one day be in that elite group. Kurt Warner was a savant who was also a winner and tough SOB but not quite in the rare air group.
Jay Cutler is better when he tries to emulate the first group and gets in trouble when he pretends to be in the second group.
Relying on Super Bowl victories to determine who is the best player at any position is simply flawed. Had Montana suffered an injury allowing Marino and the Dolphins to win the Super Bowl in 1984, would that make Dan Marino a better player?
There are 22 positions on the field, and every one of them actually does matter. QB's are more important than any other individual position, but they can NOT win by themselves. Not even close. It is simply impossible to objectively evaluate any player by a single statistic, as these statistics are dependent on the performances of other players on the field (e.g. linebackers racking up easy tackles because their defensive linemen occupy multiple blockers).
All we can do is use all of the data (team victories, statistics, the eye test) in front of us to form a logical opinion. We can all have different opinions about players and its certainly fun to debate. I would just argue that you should think twice before completely throwing out "fantasy GM statistics" when assessing players.
Quote from: jasonc on November 29, 2010, 08:27:10 AM
I will certainly argue that Elway was a better QB later in his career. Over time, he learned how to win big games. He proved it with 2 Super Bowl Championships. People don't remember how many rushing yards Walter Payton had back in 1979. But we all remember that he helped the Bears win a Super Bowl in 1985.
I strongly disagree with these statements about Elway and Payton. People actually do remember Payton's seasons from 1977-1984. They made him a hall-of-famer, one of the greatest RB's of all-time, and the career leader in rushing yards at the time of his retirement. He would be in the HOF regardless of whether the Bears won in 1985. My most impressive memories of Elway are from the late 80's and early 90's. Not the guy who moved around the field gingerly behind one of the most dominate offensive lines and running games in NFL history on the way to 2 Super Bowls in his late 30's.
Quote from: Dan Michler on November 30, 2010, 12:53:20 PM
Quote from: jasonc on November 29, 2010, 08:27:10 AM
I will certainly argue that Elway was a better QB later in his career. Over time, he learned how to win big games. He proved it with 2 Super Bowl Championships. People don't remember how many rushing yards Walter Payton had back in 1979. But we all remember that he helped the Bears win a Super Bowl in 1985.
I strongly disagree with these statements about Elway and Payton. People actually do remember Payton's seasons from 1977-1984. They made him a hall-of-famer, one of the greatest RB's of all-time, and the career leader in rushing yards at the time of his retirement. He would be in the HOF regardless of whether the Bears won in 1985. My most impressive memories of Elway are from the late 80's and early 90's. Not the guy who moved around the field gingerly behind one of the most dominate offensive lines and running games in NFL history on the way to 2 Super Bowls in his late 30's.
I 100% aree with Dan. Elway will be remembered as the guy who could throw a ball through a wall and hit the head of a pin at the same time. I think your age shows withthe Payton comment. He is remembered much more for being a complete football player who trained by running up hills and who ran for 275 yards against the Vikings. The Super Bowl Payton was merely great and was nothing compared with the Football Imortal who played in the late 70's and early 80's. That Payton was the best player at just about every postion on his team including kicker, quarterback and lineman.
I remember Payton for playing with a broken collar bone, catching a pass one armed and then lowering his shoulders to hit a LB instead of running out of bounds.
Quote from: Chainmeister on November 30, 2010, 01:50:54 PM
Quote from: Dan Michler on November 30, 2010, 12:53:20 PM
Quote from: jasonc on November 29, 2010, 08:27:10 AM
I will certainly argue that Elway was a better QB later in his career. Over time, he learned how to win big games. He proved it with 2 Super Bowl Championships. People don't remember how many rushing yards Walter Payton had back in 1979. But we all remember that he helped the Bears win a Super Bowl in 1985.
I strongly disagree with these statements about Elway and Payton. People actually do remember Payton's seasons from 1977-1984. They made him a hall-of-famer, one of the greatest RB's of all-time, and the career leader in rushing yards at the time of his retirement. He would be in the HOF regardless of whether the Bears won in 1985. My most impressive memories of Elway are from the late 80's and early 90's. Not the guy who moved around the field gingerly behind one of the most dominate offensive lines and running games in NFL history on the way to 2 Super Bowls in his late 30's.
I 100% aree with Dan. Elway will be remembered as the guy who could throw a ball through a wall and hit the head of a pin at the same time. I think your age shows withthe Payton comment. He is remembered much more for being a complete football player who trained by running up hills and who ran for 275 yards against the Vikings. The Super Bowl Payton was merely great and was nothing compared with the Football Imortal who played in the late 70's and early 80's. That Payton was the best player at just about every postion on his team including kicker, quarterback and lineman.
The thing that I remember about Payton in the Super Bowl is that he was basically used as a decoy and the fact that he didn't score a touchdown and the Fridge did score a touchdown. Not that I watched the game. Stinking Bears.
Quote from: Jon Brakel on November 30, 2010, 02:26:50 PM
I remember Payton for playing with a broken collar bone, catching a pass one armed and then lowering his shoulders to hit a LB instead of running out of bounds.
Sorry for the thread drift Brett but Payton was more known for running 100 yards or more a game with the worst offenses in the league. He got most of those rushing yards on his own most of the time. The lines in front of him were awful. Payton would hold the rushing record today if he had lines like other great backs did! Blocked, passed, kicked, received, and played Quarterback. The best all around football player in my opinion.
Quote from: Sr. on November 30, 2010, 03:24:43 PM
Quote from: Jon Brakel on November 30, 2010, 02:26:50 PM
I remember Payton for playing with a broken collar bone, catching a pass one armed and then lowering his shoulders to hit a LB instead of running out of bounds.
Sorry for the thread drift Brett but Payton was more known for running 100 yards or more a game with the worst offenses in the league. He got most of those rushing yards on his own most of the time. The lines in front of him were awful. Payton would hold the rushing record today if he had lines like other great backs did! Blocked, passed, kicked, received, and played Quarterback. The best all around football player in my opinion.
Agreed, if Barry Sanders or Walter Payton had the offensive line that Emmitt Smith enjoyed throughout the 90's with the Cowboys, they would have racked up a ton more yards. Emmitt was a tough RB and there is something to be said for his longevity at a brutal position, but he did not play at nearly the level of those other two. My top 5 RB's:
Jim Brown 5.2 ypc
Barry Sanders 5.0 ypc
Walter Payton 4.4 ypc
OJ Simpson 4.7 ypc
Emmitt Smith 4.2 ypc
Quote from: Dan Michler on December 01, 2010, 05:04:40 AM
Quote from: Sr. on November 30, 2010, 03:24:43 PM
Quote from: Jon Brakel on November 30, 2010, 02:26:50 PM
I remember Payton for playing with a broken collar bone, catching a pass one armed and then lowering his shoulders to hit a LB instead of running out of bounds.
Sorry for the thread drift Brett but Payton was more known for running 100 yards or more a game with the worst offenses in the league. He got most of those rushing yards on his own most of the time. The lines in front of him were awful. Payton would hold the rushing record today if he had lines like other great backs did! Blocked, passed, kicked, received, and played Quarterback. The best all around football player in my opinion.
Agreed, if Barry Sanders or Walter Payton had the offensive line that Emmitt Smith enjoyed throughout the 90's with the Cowboys, they would have racked up a ton more yards. Emmitt was a tough RB and there is something to be said for his longevity at a brutal position, but he did not play at nearly the level of those other two. My top 5 RB's:
Jim Brown 5.2 ypc
Barry Sanders 5.0 ypc
Walter Payton 4.4 ypc
OJ Simpson 4.7 ypc
Emmitt Smith 4.2 ypc
Interesting list, I will have to spend some time on this one. Jim Brown is #1. I think that there has to be room for Earl Campbell some place on this list. I also think that Eric Dickerson was a very under appreciated runner.
Quote from: Chainmeister on November 30, 2010, 01:50:54 PM
Quote from: Dan Michler on November 30, 2010, 12:53:20 PM
Quote from: jasonc on November 29, 2010, 08:27:10 AM
I will certainly argue that Elway was a better QB later in his career. Over time, he learned how to win big games. He proved it with 2 Super Bowl Championships. People don't remember how many rushing yards Walter Payton had back in 1979. But we all remember that he helped the Bears win a Super Bowl in 1985.
I strongly disagree with these statements about Elway and Payton. People actually do remember Payton's seasons from 1977-1984. They made him a hall-of-famer, one of the greatest RB's of all-time, and the career leader in rushing yards at the time of his retirement. He would be in the HOF regardless of whether the Bears won in 1985. My most impressive memories of Elway are from the late 80's and early 90's. Not the guy who moved around the field gingerly behind one of the most dominate offensive lines and running games in NFL history on the way to 2 Super Bowls in his late 30's.
I 100% aree with Dan. Elway will be remembered as the guy who could throw a ball through a wall and hit the head of a pin at the same time. I think your age shows withthe Payton comment. He is remembered much more for being a complete football player who trained by running up hills and who ran for 275 yards against the Vikings. The Super Bowl Payton was merely great and was nothing compared with the Football Imortal who played in the late 70's and early 80's. That Payton was the best player at just about every postion on his team including kicker, quarterback and lineman.
My age? At 32 years young, I certainly remember sitting in section 17, row 25, seat 8 of the old Soldier Field. My family has held season tickets since the Bears played at Wrigley. I have seen plenty of good Bears teams over the years. The '85 season and the 2 playoff game shut out victories were a ton of fun. I begged and pleaded my parents to take me to New Orleans. I had a hard time understanding why we went to all of the other games but could not make a special trip for the big game. I also clearly remember the Fog Bowl against the Eagles. We could barely see the players and coaches on the sideline.
I remember Payton for being the ultimate team player who would do anything for his team to win a game. His attitude and will to win was amazing. At the end of the day, all of us remember exactly what we want to remember. I prefer to remember the winning seasons while trying to forget about most games A.D. (After Ditka)
Y'all can keep on discussing the individual stats and how those numbers may or may not impact any given team. That crap is for baseball. Winning games and especially the Super Bowl is the only thing that really matters in football. Marino is an excellent case in point. He is not remembered for being a great QB. He is remembered for being a great QB that never won a Super Bowl...and for making some great Isotoner commercials. ;) Just ask him if he would trade in his HOF plaque for a Super Bowl ring.
Quote from: jasonc on December 01, 2010, 06:32:30 AM
Y'all can keep on discussing the individual stats and how those numbers may or may not impact any given team. That crap is for baseball. Winning games and especially the Super Bowl is the only thing that really matters in football. Marino is an excellent case in point. He is not remembered for being a great QB. He is remembered for being a great QB that never won a Super Bowl...and for making some great Isotoner commercials. ;) Just ask him if he would trade in his HOF plaque for a Super Bowl ring.
I disagree strongly regarding the Super Bowl the only sport that championships make a true difference in defining a player's legacy is the NBA. The NFL is completely team/coach driven. Everyone always points to Marino that he didn't win a championship, how would it have been different if Montanna hadn't gone to the 49ers with Bill Walsh? Marino is not any less of a quarterback because he didn't win a championship. If that is your criteria than Starr should be #1 with 5 NFL championships. Here is a list of stats for running backs (which you love):
| Player | LL TDs | LL Yards | LL Attempts | LL yards per game | Career Yards rank | Career Attempts ranked | Career Avg Per Carry | Years |
| Jim Brown | 5 | 7 | 6 | 8 | 9 | 24 | 5.2 | 9 |
| Emmitt Smith | 3 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 4.2 | 15 |
| Barry Sanders | 1 | 4 | 0 | 4 | 1 | 5 | 5.0 | 10 |
| Walter Payton | 1 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 4.4 | 13 |
| OJ Simpson | 2 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 18 | 23 | 4.7 | 11 |
| Earl Campbell | 2 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 29 | 28 | 4.3 | 9 |
| Eric Dickerson | 1 | 4 | 3 | 5 | 6 | 9 | 4.4 | 11 |
This is my list of the top running backs and a few key stats. I looked at durability, the ability to score touchdowns, the production against their present day competition, their place in history, and the eye test. Emmitt's stats are very impressive when stacked up against the other greats. After looking closer at the stats I had to move him up on my list. Even with his 3 Super Bowls, I would not place him ahead of Jim Brown.
Quote from: jasonc on December 01, 2010, 06:32:30 AM
Just ask him if he would trade in his HOF plaque for a Super Bowl ring.
Charles Barkley (generally considered one of the top 3 power forwards in NBA history despite not winning a title) answered a similar type question when asked if he would trade his career with Robert Horry's (a key role player for 7 NBA titles). His answer, "Hell no!". You work hard your whole life to become the best individual player you can be, not to float around and end up on a team that happens to win championships. This is true in any sport. Dan Marino worked to become one of the greatest QB's of all-time and achieved that. If you think he'd actually trade his career for Trent Dilfer's because Dilfer was on a Super Bowl winner, you are nuts!
I agree somewhat with Tom's statement about the NBA. I think Bill Simmons' "The Book of Basketball" broke this argument down the best in his chapter on Bill Russell vs. Wilt Chamberlain. On a sidenote for anybody that really likes the NBA, this book is awesome.
Back to Favre for a moment (although I've enjoyed the drift on this thread):
The current situation with Jeter and the Yanks is starting to remind me of the Favre/Packers drama. Jeter appears to be thinking that the team owes him something. It will be interesting to watch this play out. If he really plans on playing until he's 42 years old, he's going to have to do it somewhere else. The Yankees need to win every year and can't afford to start a below average 40 yr old SS when they have the capabilty of going out and buying a Hanley Ramirez.
Quote from: Dan Michler on December 02, 2010, 05:55:41 AM
Back to Favre for a moment (although I've enjoyed the drift on this thread):
The current situation with Jeter and the Yanks is starting to remind me of the Favre/Packers drama. Jeter appears to be thinking that the team owes him something. It will be interesting to watch this play out. If he really plans on playing until he's 42 years old, he's going to have to do it somewhere else. The Yankees need to win every year and can't afford to start a below average 40 yr old SS when they have the capability of going out and buying a Hanley Ramirez.
Until they got the salary cap figured out the only sport that the players deserved a golden parachute was the NBA. For a long time Jordan wasn't even the highest paid guy in the league and he never complained about it. Of course endorsements more than made up for that, but at the end of his career he got a whopping pay day from the Bulls. Baseball players are so overpaid during the course of their careers, to think that they deserve an additional reward is a joke.
It looks like Farve may be done after the hit he took.
Don't be a dumb ass and get on here and think the Vikings are better off he's gone. Jackson had a pick 6 and 2 other picks. Adrian Peterson dominated that game.
Other side note. Is Manning the new Farve? 13 picks in the last 5 games.
It just shows how hard it is to play QB when you lose weapons.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on December 05, 2010, 06:57:03 PM
Other side note. Is Manning the new Farve? 13 picks in the last 5 games.
Good point. Manning has been playing terrible, or like Favre, as you put it.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on December 05, 2010, 06:57:03 PM
It looks like Farve may be done after the hit he took.
Don't be a dumb ass and get on here and think the Vikings are better off he's gone. Jackson had a pick 6 and 2 other picks. Adrian Peterson dominated that game.
Other side note. Is Manning the new Farve? 13 picks in the last 5 games.
It just shows how hard it is to play QB when you lose weapons.
The NY Giants plane was diverted to Kansas City. Tomorrow's game against the Vikings may be postponed. Just enough time for Favre to get healthy enough to possibly keep his consecutive streak alive.
Heavy snow causes Metrodome roof to collapse in Minnesota
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/12/winter.weather/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29
Favre said had the game been played today, the streak would of ended?? Cmon DRAMA QUEEN. But I bet 31 hours later he is ready to play in Detroit. ::)
Well all great streaks have to come to an end and it looks like Bretts is going to end tonight. I think we have seen the end of the Brett Favre era and its been a pleasure to watch.
I think his streak will be safe for a while. New #1 is Peyton Manning at 205. #2 is Eli Manning at 99. So Peyton would need almost 6 more seasons. Should be fun. :happy1:
What an unbelievable streak it was! Just think it started with him completing a pass to himself.
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/1/13/1932651/brett-favre-sister-brandi-favre-arrested-meth-lab-mississippi
Tough year for Favre. Just keeps getting worse.
Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre officially filed his retirement papers with the NFL, the league confirmed on Monday.
Favre, 41, sat out the season finale because of a concussion and said the game would be his last.
"I know it's time, and that's OK. It is," Favre said after the defeat. "Again, I hold no regrets, and I can't think of too many players offhand that can walk away and say that. Individually and from a team standpoint, it was way more than I ever dreamed of."
Now? Will he stay gone???
Yes, good ridance