Albert Pujols contract situation is getting interesting. He didn't accept the Cards offer and has now stated he will not discuss his contract until the end of the season.
Doug, please explain to everybody why you are not at all concerned about this situation. I'm sure it will be good for a laugh.
cause he has until 5 days after the world series ends, before he hits free agency. if the Redbirds don't make the playoffs, that gives them over a month to get it done.
so, you think if the Cardinals come to him on July 13th and say ok Albert, we will do the 10 years for 300 million, he is going to turn them down, mid season or not? I don't.
This may hurt his chances though. what if he gets hurt, and needs season ending surgery? what other teams will pay him that kind of money if he is coming off an injury?
Dan, forget about it, he will NEVER be in a Cub uniform. If the Cardinals can't pay him 300 million, the Cubs wont either.
If he is not a Cardinal, I will be shocked yes. But I say the Mets get him before anyone else. Yankees have Texiera, Boston just signed Adrain Gonzalez at 1st base. To pay him 30 mil a year to be a DH? not happening.
I am really amazed at you though Dan. you have all this sports knowledge, but yet you still live in a dream world. Pujols has always said he wants to play for a team that can win championships. Need I remind you, it's been 103 years for the Cubs.
And if he does leave St. Louis, that just means alot more money to bring in what we really need, and thats pitching. Bull pen for starters!
If I was a Cardinal fan i'd be laying a brick in my pants knowing the best player to ever play this game could be heading out of town.
Plain and simple. The Cardinals better look to make him the top paid player because there are teams out there that are willing to do that.
If the info in that espn article is true he wouldn't even be in the top 5 of salaries.
Please Cubs, Pay him 30 million for 10 years. Those 1st 5 years will be worth every penny.
what about the last 5 Brett? you going to pay him 30 million those last 5 years to hit 27 HR's and bat .290?
and why pay a 1/3 of the teams salary on 1 player? the best to ever play yes, I agree, but you can't put the franchise in jeopardy for 1 guy.
and again, its the Cubs your talking about. they could have 7 Albert's on their team, and would still find a way to not win the world series.
Quote from: pdga#7648 on February 16, 2011, 10:01:06 AM
I am really amazed at you though Dan. you have all this sports knowledge, but yet you still live in a dream world. Pujols has always said he wants to play for a team that can win championships. Need I remind you, it's been 103 years for the Cubs.
This is why Cardinals fans don't live in reality. I won't argue that STL has had a rich baseball tradition. In the last 10 years STL has been nothing special while Pujols has been there. The Central division has been one of the worst in baseball. They've won the division on default several of those years. Pujols is lucky to have a World Series ring as the 2006 83 win STL Cards. With the best player in baseball STL should be able to dominate.
If Pujols really wants to win he should go to the Yankees, Phils, or Boston.
Money talks. I think the Cubs have just as good as a shot as anyone in the Pujols sweepstakes.
Quote from: pdga#7648 on February 16, 2011, 11:38:56 AM
what about the last 5 Brett? you going to pay him 30 million those last 5 years to hit 27 HR's and bat .290?
Tell me this Doug. Over the next 5 years what are the chances of the Cards making the playoffs or winning the world series without Pujols? I'll take 5 years.
This is the best player of all time and he's been a bargain to date. Pay the man what he's worth. If he goes to the open market he will be paid like it.
If I were Pujols i'd be making a career move to the AL. Play first base until the wheels fall off then continue to jack from the DH spot. I would not be surprised to see him move over to the AL.
nothing special? they played in 2 world series in those 10 years, while winning 1 of them. Besides Holliday( who just got there) who else is All Star caliber? Nobody. besides pitchers. 1 man can't dominate like you say the Cards should have. If pitchers walk AP, he can't hurt them.
where would he play in Philly? you going to bench Howard?
Nobody is worth 30 mil per year!! period! A-rods 275 mil over 10 years was worse than Sorianos deal! and the Yankees admit that. Albert shouldn't go by that contract.
If he was being truthful about his loyalty and the love for the city of St; Louis, the 200 million over 8 years should have been plenty enough. Yes he has been underpaid, but he had alot to do with that. he signed a 7yr deal worth 98 mil, why so little? we knew how good he was after 2 seasons, he signed that deal after his 3rd season.
Bobby Valentine said it best with this... Albert take the 5 years for 150 mil( thats 30 mil per year, what you asked for), then if your still crushing HR's and putting up the same numbers, then ask for another 5 years at 200 mil.
Bottom line is this. The Cardinals have won 10 world series tiltles, 9 WITHOUT Albert. go ahead and walk, we can use that money on pitching.
Reading Doug's comments were definitely worth starting this topic. Way to bring your A-game! Some All-Caps action combined with the excessive space between thoughts, mixed in with the 103 year drought comment (maybe a little overused, but its such a classic that I can see why you keep coming back to it). Great stuff. CBSsports.com should be paying you to contribute a blog or something.
Right now I'm feeling like the odds are about
75% he ends up with the Cards
25% he's gone
That 25% is way up from a year ago. If the Cardinals can not pay him, they should just be honest and end this whole drama right now instead of letting it drag out and end bitterly. Pujols is completely justified to seek out what he is worth. He has been vastly underpaid for years, and this is most likely his last chance for a monster deal.
The question is, can anybody else out there make Pujols the highest paid player in the game? The Yankees and Red Sox have no openings on their roster, so it would seem they are not in the running.
The Cubs are next in line when it comes to teams with huge payrolls and huge revenue. After this season, we have no 1B. So, obviously the Cubs are a real possibility, even if Cardinal fans don't want to acknowlege the fact.
Cubs payroll http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tt7HjIernphaSrv4wMWdUYg&output=html (http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tt7HjIernphaSrv4wMWdUYg&output=html)
After 2011, we will buyout Aram for $2M, saving us $12.6M.
Fukudome is off the books, that saves $14.5M
We'll buyout Silva for $2M, which saves $10.75M
Pena off the books. Thats another $10M.
Grabow off the books. Thats antoher $4.8M
Samardiza's dreadful deal is finally over. Thats another $3.5M
So, we're clearing up $56M in payroll. We'll have a handful of roster positions that need to be filled with that money and Garza and Soto will be arbitration eligible, and now Marmol is getting a $4M raise, but certainly the Cubs will have quite a bit of money to spend next offseason. We could give Pujols $30M and still save money off our 2011 payroll. Not to mention the next season we'll be losing Z's $19M, Dempsters $14M, and Byrd's $6.5M.
Can the Cards afford Pujols? Probably, but it may cripple the team financially. Can the Cubs afford Pujols? Definitely. Even if the deal went poorly, it would never be as bad as the $65M we paid Zambrano, Soriano, and Fukudome every single year for the past 3 years.
but we have 8 1/2 months to wait maybe. Im sure his agent will be talking to the owners during the season. Albert just said he wont be.
so back to your original comments Dan...
not too concerned yet. Now if he hits free agency, then I will be concerned. I have faith in the Cardinals ownership to keep the best player in MLB history in the best baseball city in the world!
95% he stays
5% he goes
Quote from: pdga#7648 on February 16, 2011, 12:11:39 PM
If he was being truthful about his loyalty and the love for the city of St; Louis, the 200 million over 8 years should have been plenty enough. Yes he has been underpaid, but he had alot to do with that. he signed a 7yr deal worth 98 mil, why so little? we knew how good he was after 2 seasons, he signed that deal after his 3rd season.
Wow, so bitter already. If the company you work for offered you 30% less money than other companies were offering, and much less than what other less talented workers are already being paid, would it be fair for them to label you as disloyal for seeking more money?
and if CBSsports did hire me to do a blog, I for sure wouldn't be so biased as you guys are. you guys act like everything you say is 100% accurate and always correct, but anything I say no matter how factual, it's always wrong. that's why I keep coming on here and pushing your buttons. I can talk smack just as well as you guys think you do.
I'll just refer you guys back to all of Dans Cubs 2008, 2009, 2010 posts. just look how wrong he was all 3 years!
Quote from: Dan Michler on February 16, 2011, 12:31:07 PM
Quote from: pdga#7648 on February 16, 2011, 12:11:39 PM
If he was being truthful about his loyalty and the love for the city of St; Louis, the 200 million over 8 years should have been plenty enough. Yes he has been underpaid, but he had alot to do with that. he signed a 7yr deal worth 98 mil, why so little? we knew how good he was after 2 seasons, he signed that deal after his 3rd season.
Wow, so bitter already. If the company you work for offered you 30% less money than other companies were offering, and much less than what other less talented workers are already being paid, would it be fair for them to label you as disloyal for seeking more money?
what can he do with 30 mil per year that he can't do with 25 mil in a year?
and who offered him 30% more than 200 million dollars?
Quotewhat can he do with 30 mil per year that he can't do with 25 mil in a year?
This is how most sports fans think. This is not how rich people and pro athletes think. 9 times out of 10, people don't leave money on the table.
Quoteand who offered him 30% more than 200 million dollars?
Nobody because he's not a free agent yet. As soon as he is, he'll most likely be facing this scenario. So, is it fair to call him disloyal if he takes it?
he has stated that he loves St. Louis, and wants to retire a Cardinal. if he takes somone else's offer, to me yea, thats greed, not loyalty. once again, I know, I'm soooo wrong!
Cliff Lee went to Philly and not the Yankees. Why? cause he knows he can win in Philly. he dont need an extra 6 million dollars, considering he is already rich.
Albert has thrown a curveball to all of Cardinal Nation, not just me.
and maybe you Cubs fans are used to paying for peoples contracts when they don't produce. but St. Louis isn't that type of team or organization, and we don't see it wise to give a 10 year cotract for someone who is 31( if he really is, he is from the Dominican Republic) if he wont be putting up the same numbers at 38, 39, 40, 41. who cares if he has been underpaid. he and his agent are to blame for that. just because he was underpaid, that means now he has to be overpaid? not too much logic there guys!
Quote from: pdga#7648 on February 16, 2011, 12:11:39 PM
nothing special? they played in 2 world series in those 10 years, while winning 1 of them.
I'm going to give STL credit for one of those years. The team that won 105 games and lost in the World Series was a really good team. That 2006 (83 wins) team will go down as one of the worst teams to ever win a world series. It all evens out. 40% of the time STL has not been in the playoffs that Pujols has been there. That is not a top notch. You can ride the Cubs fans all you want but it's not like the Cards have been that dominant over the Cubs the past 10 years. The real question is does Pujols really think STL is a winning organization. If he had the option of playing for the Yankees and have that huge contract I could gurantee he gone!
Who needs loyalty if you're gonna get 5 or more million a year?
dominant over the Cubs those 10 years, no, but over the last 30 heck yes!
and your making it clearer for all Cards fans. go ahead and walk, we will get 30 million in pitching, and a replacement 1st baseman, and be just fine. we got his best 10 years out of him already. he wont have another season like he had in 2005 or 2008. he is not pitched to enough anymore.
and the answer is yes, they are a winning organization. all their division titles, pennants, and NL most 10 world series titles.
and the Yankees already posted today, they will not seek Pujols after this season. George don't run the show anymore. They are still stuck with A-rods overblown contract. why would they want another one?
espn's baseball tonight guys just said there might be 4-5 teams that can pay him a 10 yr 300 mil contract besides the Cardinals
Yankees( no reason to)
Red Sox( just signed Gonzo )
Texas
Anahiem
Cubs
He will test the market, see what teams will offer (which he should) then he will choose to stay where the best fans in baseball are at, and end his career a Redbird. Just like Jeter just did, but resigned as a Yankee.
Quote from: Steven Jacobs on February 16, 2011, 04:04:51 PM
Who needs loyalty if you're gonna get 5 or more million a year.
what is 5 million dollars a year to someone with hundreds of millions? greed will only get you hated in this world. Ask LeBron
This is the best player of all time and he's been a bargain to date. Pay the man what he's worth. If he goes to the open market he will be paid like it.
[/quote]
so, you would pay him 30 million for 10 years, but not have enough money to put guys around him to win a World Series? you would have a bunch of double A kids playing at a level their not ready for, just to sign 1 guy? again, don't make much sense
Quote from: pdga#7648 on February 16, 2011, 04:41:42 PM
This is the best player of all time and he's been a bargain to date. Pay the man what he's worth. If he goes to the open market he will be paid like it.
so, you would pay him 30 million for 10 years, but not have enough money to put guys around him to win a World Series? you would have a bunch of double A kids playing at a level their not ready for, just to sign 1 guy? again, don't make much sense
[/quote]
Simple solution. Expand the payroll from 95 mil to 125 mil. Cheap asses.
sorry, The Cardinals wont be bullied into doing that. They will let him test the market. If he walks, he walks. We need pitching now with him on the team. If he leaves, that means Carp and Wainwright are there until they retire, and Garcia is a stud. So go spend 30 mil on 3 players, 1 all star pitcher, 1 bull pen specialist, and a 1st baseman, and we would still compete for that division. remeber how Weak it is?
It's this simple. if he knew he was going to want that much money, why not half way thru his 7yr deal, after a World Series win, ask to renegotiate his contract, and go Huge then? The owners would have leaped out of their seats for 10 yrs at 300 mil at 27 yrs old. But at 31, to ask for 10 years is asking too much. why not settle on the 8 yr deal with 2 yr option? for something between 19.2, and 23.4 Million( thats from espn.com) If you meant what you have told Stl fans for the last 5 years, when saying I love it here, and want to retire a Cardinal, that offer should have been fine.
At a time when the economy is where it is, how does he expect normal fans to attend these games, when if he signed for 30 a year, ticket prices, beer, hot dogs, everything will go up in price. I understand he knows he is the best ever, and wants paid like it, but anyway ya cut it, 30 mil a year is more than A-rods 27.5. 6 yrs @ 180 mil is 30 a year. resign after that and call it a career.
Laugh it up now guys, cause today does suck more than the Superbowl loss.
If he does leave, at least the Cardinals got his best years. I will always say he was the best I ever saw play. But it's the name on the Front of that jersey, not the back that I root for.
Quote from: pdga#7648 on February 16, 2011, 04:13:08 PM
what is 5 million dollars a year to someone with hundreds of millions? greed will only get you hated in this world. Ask LeBron
Fact check: LeBron was not greedy, he was just an asshole. Nobody could have paid him as much as the Cavs. He took less money to go play with Wade.
Listen Doug, I'm sorry you are finding out the hard way that pro sports is a business. Pujols will never be as loyal to the Cardinals organization as much as the Cardinal fans are. Its the same for every team. Pujols didn't grow up a Cardinal fan. It wasn't his lifelong dream to play in St.Louis, Missouri. Its just where he ended up. I'm sure he's greatful for the good years he's had, but don't think for one second that he'll just take whatever the Cardinals put on the table and be happy. Its not fair to expect that of him. You know why? Because what if Pujols fractures his hip this year and his career is in jeopardy. Do you think the Cardinals are going to be loyal to Albert and still give him the contract he deserved based on the career he's had? Hell no! They'll kick his ass to the curb like any other organization would. Willie Mays didn't retire a Giant. Brett Favre and Vince Lombardi didn't retire as Packers. Ron Santo played for the White Sox. Jerry Rice didn't retire a 49er. And I could go on. Its a business. We are rooting for laundry.
I still think at some point the Cardinals are going to fear the fan backlash and give him more money. He may to go free agency, but he ends up with the Cardinals. My prediction is 8 years $230M. The thought of him in a Cubs uniform is fantastic, but the Cubs may be gun-shy when it comes to pulling the trigger on another Soriano-like deal. I still think Prince Fielder is a more likely target for the Cubs next year.
I understand all of that Dan. and I too believe he will be a Cardinal, but they both knew this day was coming 2 years ago, and they couldn't get it done by Alberts deadline?? cmon. he thinks it wont be a disrtaction this season, he is wrong. maybe he wont answer questions, but the rest of the team will have to all freakin year. I know the fans will give him the respect he deserves, I just hope Dewitt sees what he means to the city of St. Louis, not just the team.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on February 16, 2011, 05:17:32 PM
Quote from: pdga#7648 on February 16, 2011, 04:41:42 PM
This is the best player of all time and he's been a bargain to date. Pay the man what he's worth. If he goes to the open market he will be paid like it.
so, you would pay him 30 million for 10 years, but not have enough money to put guys around him to win a World Series? you would have a bunch of double A kids playing at a level their not ready for, just to sign 1 guy? again, don't make much sense
Simple solution. Expand the payroll from 95 mil to 125 mil. Cheap asses.
[/quote]
Brett, they are not cheap, just because they don't like to pick up players overblown contracts. like Dan has stated, it's a business from the owners stand point as well as Alberts. raise the payroll means, raise everything else as well. then they go from selling out, to plenty of empty seats. they just built a new stadium, cant add more seats.
and St. Louis is a small midwestern city. not the bright lights of a New York, Boston, Los Angeles or even Chicago for that matter.
Agree with almost everything Wilbon says in this article that just went up on ESPN.com. Winning 1 World Series would be worth overpaying a 39,40,41 year old Pujols. In fact, its not even debatable for Cubs fans.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=wilbon/110218 (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=wilbon/110218)
I had a thought on this last week. So supposedly Pujols wants 30mil/10yr. We all know that the last 5 years of that deal are not going to be worth it. If The Cubs or anyone else really wants Pujols, and who in their right minds wouldn't, why not offer him 40mil/5yr. He will makes 2/3 the money in 1/2 the time. With the extra the 5 years of interest earned it might be close to the same. That makes him the highest paid by far. Probably the highest paid player for the entire deal. There is no way he can turn that down even if he loses 100mil at the end of the deal. The teams saves 100mil in the deal. I would have to think that a team like the Cubs could put together a marketing plan that could justify that kind of money for Pujols. Agreed with winning 1 World Series is worth ever penny of the deal. Could imagine his endorsements deals if he won a WS with the Cubs? He might make 300mil on that alone.
I'm not convinced that Pujols won't still be a top 5 player in 6 years. Bonds had the greatest statistical 4 year stretch in the history of the game from ages 36-39. With the way player's take care of themselves today (including whatever illegal chemicals are going into their bodies), its not uncommon for a player's prime to extend into their late 30's. Just looking at Pujols, its clear he takes extermely good care of his body. I don't see him breaking down any time soon.
Quote from: Dan Michler on February 21, 2011, 12:20:34 PM
I'm not convinced that Pujols won't still be a top 5 player in 6 years. Bonds had the greatest statistical 4 year stretch in the history of the game from ages 36-39. With the way player's take care of themselves today (including whatever illegal chemicals are going into their bodies), its not uncommon for a player's prime to extend into their late 30's. Just looking at Pujols, its clear he takes extermely good care of his body. I don't see him breaking down any time soon.
Dan, I agree that Pujols may be a good bet to still be a top player for a while to come. However, Bonds is a poor reason to be encouraged. The only question regarding Bonds' longevity in baseball is whether it was the clear or the cream that helped Bonds drink from the Fountain of Youth.
Bonds was a cheater, Pujols is not. Huge difference. Bonds was great because of the PED's. Pujols has been the most tested the last 2 years, and passed with flying colors. I would say he is pure, even if he wore a Cubs uniform. Just watch his eyes every at bat. Dude is A #1 at watching the ball all the way to the bat! But to think his numbers wont start to drop in the next 4-5 years, is probably wrong. even Machines wear out!
But if anyone cares for my 2 cents. He will try the market then take less money to stay in St. Louis, as some sort of spot for him in the organization will be free in 8 years. He will make money off of the Cardinals organization for life! No other teams offer, will outweigh that one. He stays a Cardinal, so quit hoping for a miracle from the Cubs. when have they ever came through?
Quote from: Dan Michler on February 17, 2011, 05:57:31 AM
Its a business. We are rooting for laundry.
Or as Jerry Seinfeld put it, "So what you're really rooting for here is a color scheme."
Go Blue.
It will be interesting to see what happens with this Wainwright injury. If he needs Tommy John surgery and misses the next 2 years you have to figure AP5's stock just went up. It's a win win for Cubs fans. I'm hoping Pujols has a smoking hot year but the deadbirds miss the playoffs again.
wake up Brett, it's 6:30 pm and your sleeping? dreaming for sure
Tommy John surgery needed. Pujols stock just went up to 31 million a year ;D
Carpenter pulling a hammy today. Wow. I didn't think Pujols stock to rise more.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on March 01, 2011, 06:29:15 PM
Carpenter pulling a hammy today. Wow. I didn't think Pujols stock to rise more.
I must be naive. I don't get why Pujols stock seems to rise every time a Cardinal pitcher is injured. It seems to me that his value would drop. The Cardinals need pitching. They cannot mortgage their future and be unable to pay for pitching. I guess the reasoning is that the fans will not let them lose Pujols given the other hits they have taken. I'm sorry, again, I must be naive. However, this seems like Cubbie thinking. "Oh, no, you can't lose Albert now!" As I mentioned before, unless you are the Yankees, you have to prioritize your resource and put a well rounded team on the field.
I look at it this way. You might be able to survive without Pujols if your stud 1/2 pitchers are going to be around. Wainwright would be lucky to see the mound next season. Carpenter is probably gone especially if this injury hampers him for any period of time. I'm guessing he won't be back.
So now you lose your 1/2 studs. If you let your best ever to play the game STUD go you have another enormous hole to fill. There is no way you can recover from those 3 losses. You can pay fill in the blank, Prince Fielder, etc... X amount of dollars and hope he fills that gap. Why not nut up and pay Pujols the money. Right now the Cardinals insurance of 2 stud pitchers isn't looking so good. I believe his value has gone up. I have a feeling he's going to have another MONSTER year.
I agree with everything you say about Pujols. He is the rare player who is even better than everybody says he is. He is both ferocious and disciplined at the plate- a lethal combination.I still wonder whether his price is so high that you can obtain multiple players, multiple very good players, for his asking price. Baseball is a sport that is won by great teams.Is Pjuols worth 1/3 of your payroll? Also, the Cards are in such trouble that they have lots of holes to fill. If this plays out they have Pujols and a triple A pitching staff. Put yourself behind the bench of any opponent. Walk Albert, beat up on the rest of the team and go home with a W. This should be a good scenario for a Cubs fan.. They have decent pitching that is certainly better than the decimated Cardinal pitching staff. If Quade tells himself that he will not let Pujols beat him and that he could care less how badly he gets booed he will beat the Cards more often than not.