The first in this year's 3-part Am Nats series presented by the PDGA has been posted on Youtube. Here's the link:
http://youtu.be/Nn1_XVk2D6Q
In this first part, we'll take a look at some action from past years at Am Nationals, from the archives of Disc Golf Live video magazine, in advance of this year's play which starts later in the week. Highlights include footage of on course action as well as off course antics such as Speed Golf and Lizard Games, all on the famous and uber-tough Toboggan course at Kensington Metropark in Milford, MI. We'll follow this up with stories on early round and final round play when the Champion is crowned on Sunday, June 12th.
Thanks to the PDGA, the Disc Golf Association, and Discs Unlimited for supporting this online video project. Let them know you appreciate their support (and you might want to take advantage of the coupon code DU is offering on Millennium discs.)
Best regards,
Joe
Joe Wander
Producer and Editor
Disc Golf Live video magazine
Bringing DG to TV, one community at a time
www.discgolflive.com
Im gonna win
Mills wins it on an illegal putt at 6:34. >:D
That is the most clear illegal jump putt that I've seen on video.
If I had a buck for every illegal putt I have on tape, I'd be all set.
If I had a buck for every time I've seen a foot fault called in competition, I'd only need a buck more and I could buy something off the dollar menu.
Hopefully, this heat breaks before the action starts (which they're predicting). Otherwise, I'll just stay in one spot and shoot from there all weekend...
Thanks for watching.
I've noticed some cameramen not shooting the feet while top players are jumping. I don't know whether that is intentional or not.
There is this one tournament highlight film out there where Nikko demonstrates about five different ways to foot fault while putting.
Have fun Joe. My bluegrass allergies will probably keep me away from the Toboggan this weekend.
Three players from Gurnee. This number ties for the most representing one town, there are a couple other towns with three players including San Diego. Good luck to all Discontinuum players.
Good luck to Steven, Kenny, Naspinski, and all the other local players attending. I'd say we've got a great chance to see an Am Nats title return to Illinois this year.
Thanks, Bruce. It will be fun, I'm hoping.
Not a good spring for the allergies at all. I'm bothered only sporadically but this year there have been several rounds where things just went nuts.
Quote from: Dan Michler on June 08, 2011, 07:04:29 AM
Good luck to Steven, Kenny, Naspinski, and all the other local players attending. I'd say we've got a great chance to see an Am Nats title return to Illinois this year.
The Toboggan is a power course. Guys who birdie the swamp hole at Fairfield and get a 3 on the last hole at Fairfield have a shot. You cannot get your birdies on the Toboggan without decent power. Among those guys, the guy who can do it forehand and backhand has the best shot.
I disagree there. I'm not a power guy by any means and somehow I made the top card a few years back. Play smart and choose your landing zones to get the right score as opposed to going for everything will reap great rewards. You can birdie 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, and 15 without having to throw huge drives. 4, 9, 12, 16 and 17 require some distance with 12 and 16 being tweeners on that list.
So just go out and birdie all the holes I listed and you'll be just fine.
I wouldnt say the toboggan is a power course but it does help to throw far. IF you can throw 350 and do well on the target holes of 2, 6, 7, 15, and 17 then you will place well.
Throwing far clearly helps, as it does on most courses, but saying only guys who can drive Hole 12 at Fairfield and get to Hole 18 in two have a chance is way off-base. Hole 12 is like 500 feet. You don't need to be able to throw 500 feet to win Am Nats for all the reasons Taylor just stated. Its not like every hole is wide open and its just a long-drive competition out there.
Dave Naspinski has the HOT round so far of 61! nice shooting Dave
They've been playing in light rain, off and on today, but otherwise fairly calm conditions. Cool and cloudy.
There was light rain for a few minutes. There was major rain for a few hours. Here's some of the action from Friday:
http://youtu.be/AA8YfQ0Wqo4
They are playing disc golf at the Toboggan today.
Joe, if you know, at 13:59 what was up with that one guy choosing not to tee from the tee?
Also, assuming his foot was behind his mini at the start of his throwing motion, there's a good foot fault at 15:07.
Quote from: Disc Golf Live on June 11, 2011, 10:50:56 AM
There was light rain for a few minutes. There was major rain for a few hours. Here's some of the action from Friday:
http://youtu.be/AA8YfQ0Wqo4
nice putt by dave at 11:12
You can ask him yourself, Bruce. That's Brian Earhart, one of our locals. I'm guessing he felt he would get better grip behind the tee than on the tee.
Quote from: roman on June 11, 2011, 08:29:15 PM
You can ask him yourself, Bruce. That's Brian Earhart, one of our locals. I'm guessing he felt he would get better grip behind the tee than on the tee.
I think that's correct. I sat under the tent there just after the first rain began and caught the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th cards trying to tee off. One early guy slipped badly on the tee, and seeing that others were considering their options. And the turf option wasn't much better or worse than the pads themselves.
Overall, the footage I took is a foot-fault fest. Guys usually don't/can't watch their own feet, so we can't expect them to call their own violations. Fellow contenders often don't want the scrutiny which will come if they were to call a violation on another player, so that's not a great route either. I still think it would be fun to send an official with the top groups, ready to call any and all violations. I'd even give them yellow and red flags to toss as soon as they see the violation. That would make for some fun video and tighten things up considerably. Yet officials at majors are very reluctant to crack down on this...
Pros are generally better at hitting their mark. Put an Am on a goofy lie on a hill and he'll step on his disc/mini, or miss his mark all together way too often. Start calling the foot faults and we'd see a lot more guys tighten up their play or stop using run-ups all together. Maybe they should relax the rules on stance, since we don't follow them, anyway.
I'll have the final story up sometime on Monday. These longer pieces take a good while to render and upload, but I'll have get it up there as soon as I can.
Thanks for watching.
Joe
Quote from: Disc Golf Live on June 12, 2011, 06:23:38 AM
Quote from: roman on June 11, 2011, 08:29:15 PM
You can ask him yourself, Bruce. That's Brian Earhart, one of our locals. I'm guessing he felt he would get better grip behind the tee than on the tee.
I'll have the final story up sometime on Monday. These longer pieces take a good while to render and upload, but I'll have get it up there as soon as I can.
Thanks for watching.
Joe
Nice work Joe. Thanks.
I have no doubt that the illegal jump putts today will be made legal by a rules change in the near future. If no one is going to call it then why not make it legal? :P
Earlier in the video the TD told Mark Ellis and one group that they had to tee from the tees, which would be the rule if he had said nothing. I'm just not understanding why the player would feel at liberty to completely ignore the tee while teeing off. I could see that in the Rec division at some local tounament but a top amateur at a major? It is not like he missed the tee or stepped off the end. He took a run up that ended well short of the tee and did not use the tee at any time.
Mark Ellis asked if they had 1ft leeway on either side of the tee this year like they have in previous years, and the TD said no, they had to throw from the rubber pad. I think in that context the TD said you can't tee off from either side of the pad.
brian placed a mini on the tee pad, then tee'd off behind his mini, which was on the edge of the tee pad. why are sooo many here always looking to call foot faults on people? jump putts are Legal! aren't they? or are you guys mad that you can't make any of your jump attempts? just curious?
Quote from: pdga#7648 on June 13, 2011, 11:35:40 AM
brian placed a mini on the tee pad, then tee'd off behind his mini, which was on the edge of the tee pad. why are sooo many here always looking to call foot faults on people? jump putts are Legal! aren't they? or are you guys mad that you can't make any of your jump attempts? just curious?
I agree Doug. Who cares about any of this? Let the touring players nitpick over minor rules violations. I don't think amateurs are gaining much with all these Foot Faults Caught On Tape. As far as your comment about jump putts....it is legal to putt and then jump, but not legal to jump and then putt. Your foot must be down when you release. I've never seen it called, and I don't plan on calling it myself anytime in the future.
Some of this is to help people know the rules. If a tee pad is provided, it must be used (803.02.A). While Brian placing a mini on the tee pad is a novel approach. There is nothing in the rules that allows for that action unless a throw actually landed there.
Edit: included rules citation.
I was with Brian all weekend and he said that Chuck Kennedy was standing next to him on 13. Brian asked if he could tee off behind the tee pad and Chuck Kennedy said "yes" it is legal to do that.
We are also getting away from how incredible of a shot that was. Not only was it raining and he was behind the tee pad, but he fell down and still made it to the top of 13 for an 80 foot eagle putt on a par 4. I think David Wiggins Jr. also landed somewhere in that vicinity. On the nice days, I only got half way up the hill.
That's what I call MASHING a disc.
And when putting you must have a point of contact on the line of play within 30 cm behind your marker. So when you start with a point of contact behind the marker and move it away before you throw, it is an illegal putt.
These are the rules. If you don't like them, play women's softball.
Quote from: buettgdj on June 13, 2011, 12:51:06 PM
I was with Brian all weekend and he said that Chuck Kennedy was standing next to him on 13. Brian asked if he could tee off behind the tee pad and Chuck Kennedy said "yes" it is legal to do that.
Sounds like Chuck Kennedy. He is wrong about the rules 80% of the time.
if you release the disc with a foot on the ground, it is ok. all the foot faults Bruce pointed out look fine to me. the disc was released with a foot touching the ground! and none that he pointed out were called were they? huh, what do ya know?
Quote from: Bruce Brakel on June 13, 2011, 12:51:51 PM
These are the rules. If you don't like them, play women's softball.
what does this mean? women's softball don't have rules??
I don't give a crap. Brian MASHED it in the rain while falling down ;D
Quote from: Dan Michler on June 13, 2011, 11:51:19 AM
Quote from: pdga#7648 on June 13, 2011, 11:35:40 AM
brian placed a mini on the tee pad, then tee'd off behind his mini, which was on the edge of the tee pad. why are sooo many here always looking to call foot faults on people? jump putts are Legal! aren't they? or are you guys mad that you can't make any of your jump attempts? just curious?
I agree Doug. Who cares about any of this? Let the touring players nitpick over minor rules violations. I don't think amateurs are gaining much with all these Foot Faults Caught On Tape. As far as your comment about jump putts....it is legal to putt and then jump, but not legal to jump and then putt. Your foot must be down when you release. I've never seen it called, and I don't plan on calling it myself anytime in the future.
without instant replay or a slo motion video, how can 1 really be sure? your eyes can't watch a players feet and the release of the disc at the same time! like Dan said, that's just nitpicking. must be the guys always losing that make a call on someone during a tournament?
now, I have watched alot of videos where Barry calls foot fouls,(foot that is not directly behind mini, in front of lie) mostly on Nikko, but never fouls on jump putts!
Quote from: pdga#7648 on June 13, 2011, 01:26:52 PM
Quote from: Bruce Brakel on June 13, 2011, 12:51:51 PM
These are the rules. If you don't like them, play women's softball.
what does this mean? women's softball don't have rules??
Women's softball used to have one of their balk rules broken all the time. They changed the rule to make the accepted form of pitching legal.
thanks Jon. I was confused big time on that one.
I think amateurs should be sportsmen, and sportsmen play the game, any game, in such a way that it is clear that they are following the rules. It is really poor sportsmanship to cheat because no one is calling it or cheat becauase it happens so fast no one can call it. How about just not cheating?
There are clearly a lot of legal jump putts. I know quite a few disc golfers that make jump putts that anyone can see are legal. People, in my opinion, should not make jump putts that are ambiguous in nature. Since we don't have slo-mo instant replay we should play in a manner in which we don't need slo-mo instant replay to know if we are playing legally.
I can't really recall ever seeing a clear case of a jump putt where the player's in the air before the release. The idea behind it (I always thought) is that the act of pushing off w/ the jump helps propel the disc. If you're already in the air, there's no force involved; the putting motion isn't like a basketball jump shot and I don't see any physiological advantage to putting while you're airborne.
Now, I could see an advantage to jumping before throwing a thumber or something to clear an obstacle, but that's a different motion (and still illegal, of course; I did it myself a few wks ago but it was a casual round - and no, I didn't call myself on it. 8) )
as far as the slick rubber teepads; if they didn't tell every group that they couldn't tee off from somewhere off the pad, I'd like to think that common sense and safety would prevail, but maybe not.
i know my jump putts are fine. but again, like Dan said, I would not call a foot fault on a jump putt. now inside the circle, if he crosses his mini before the disc is in the basket, heck yea I would call that. but jump putts, like Damon said, no advantage to being off the ground and releasing the disc. I just came from the backyard trying it, and no one that jump putts would benifit any way by being airborne when they let go of the disc. it is very awkward!
Quote from: pdga#7648 on June 13, 2011, 07:26:53 PM
now inside the circle, if he crosses his mini before the disc is in the basket, heck yea I would call that.
So you would call a non-rule?
803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off
C. Any throw from within 10 meters or less, as measured from the rear of the marker disc
to the base of the hole, is considered a putt. A follow-through after a putt that causes the
thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the
marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is considered a stance violation . The player must demonstrate full
control of balance before advancing toward the hole.
looks like it's still a rule to me??
Quote from: pickax on June 13, 2011, 08:00:47 PM
Quote from: pdga#7648 on June 13, 2011, 07:26:53 PM
now inside the circle, if he crosses his mini before the disc is in the basket, heck yea I would call that.
So you would call a non-rule?
Quote from: pdga#7648 on June 13, 2011, 08:08:58 PM
803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing Off
.... A follow-through after a putt that causes the
thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the
marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is considered a stance violation . The player must demonstrate full
control of balance before advancing toward the hole.
looks like it's still a rule to me??
Strictly speaking, not the same thing, which I think is Mike's point. You could 'demonstrate balance', then advance toward the hole while the disc is in the air, although if it's a short putt that'd be difficult. More likely, you might putt, hit the chains and then step forward *without* demonstrating balance, which is illegal.
(....thread drift.... ;) )
Not to get things back on track or anything, but here's a link to the final story in this year's Am Nats series:
http://youtu.be/MydHxKTpFw8
Ben Callaway brings home the title after being challenged by the others on his card and one of the fellows of the 2nd card.
Thanks for watching. Bye-bye Toboggan, until next year.
Joe
Sorry about the thread drift. Thanks for making this videos available.
The vids are cool...and you can tell we're watching them! ;D