Starts in 5 days, but I really don't think it lasts very long. He resigns in St. Louis! with that Championship team in place, and getting Wainwright back, pretty easy decision for him.
Brett, don't get your hopes up too much please ;)
You can't feel too good about that speech. I really think he could end up in a lot of places. A player like that can get a struggling teams fan base excited in a hurry. My hopes are not up. I have my reasons for wanting Pujols which fits right in the "Cubs Plan". If he comes here great. If not I just hope we don't have to face him in the division. If the Cards blow a huge wad on him great! It's win/win on my end.
your right. That speech didn't sound good, but I think he is just taking in the moment, and wasn't going to talk to millions of people about it. time will tell??
Do you really want to lock up Pujols for 7+ years if you are anybody other than a Cardinals fan? Maybe I've just been burned by 30+ year old free agents too many times as a Cubs fan, but I'm definitely feeling like Pujols' best years are behind him.
After August everything really came together like a perfect storm for the Cardinals.
1. Berkman had 1 last monster year and gave the team the lift it needed to stay competitive, especially early. He was also their best hitter in the WS. Berkman might have another solid year left, but its highly doubtful he'll ever reproduce this season again.
2. An aging Carpenter was great when he needed to be against the Phils, was terrible against the Brewers when it was okay because the Brewers pitching was worse, and was then solid again in the WS when the Cards needed it.
3. The Cardinals got the 102 Win Phils in the 1st round, which is only 5 games. The Cards would have really had a tough time beating the Phils in a 7 game series. Carpenter would have been done after Game 5 and the Phils had 2 more ace starters waiting in the wings.
4. The Cardinals got that rainout in Game 6 of the WS. The weather was not bad, and considerably better than the weather in Game 1. However, the game was cancelled early in the day to avoid the potential for ong rain delays which could hurt TV ratings (still think MLB doesn't care about TV ratings Doug?) This allowed Carpenter to start Game 7...HUGE advantage for the Cardinals.
5. The NL won the All-Star game, giving the Cardinals home field advantage, even though the Rangers were 6 games better than the Cardinals in the regular season. Without home-field in Game 7, do the Cardinals win it? Who knows.
6. I'm not saying the Cards won because of this, but the 3-2 pitch by Feldman to Yadier Molina with the bases loaded in a 3-2 game with 2 outs was HUGE.
That was strike 3. Unbelievably it was called ball 4 and 2 more runs came home in the inning. That was essentially the end of the game. If the Rangers get out of that, its still a 1 run game, they take back some momentum and the game completely changes. And it was flat-out a TERRIBLE call. Especially because:
A) the previous inning Carpenter had gotten a huge called strike on a pitch 6 inches outside against Josh Hamilton with runners on. That killed that inning, and Carpenter appeared on the ropes as he was hit hard after that (a robbed HR and a line-drive out to RF). The lack of consistency in the strike zone clearly favored the Cardinals as the 3-2 pitch to Molina was obviously over the plate.
and B) the previous pitch Molina made the umpire look bad by taking off for first on a called strike. Why the umpire felt it necessary to give Molina the benefit of the doubt on the next pitch is beyond me.
Then when you factor in the Braves historic collapse, its hard to comprehend the odds that the 2011 Cardinals overcame win this. For a 90 win, slightly above average team to win the WS, it takes this kind of luck to pull it off. But, if it happened to the Cubs, it wouldn't take anything away from my enjoyment. Congrats Cardinals!
You didn't even bring up the head to head matchups with the Cubs. The Cardinals should send Quade a nice check.
6-4 Quade decides to pitch to Pujols with Holliday out of the lineup. Gives up a 12th innning dong to lose a 1 run game.
6-5. Marmol blows another save. The Genius decides to pitch to the machine in the 10th with LOPEZ!! Walk off dong.
9-24. Cubs give up 2 in the bottom of the 9th to blow a 1-0 lead. Quade watches Marmol walk 3 and hit another to force in the winning run.
9-25 Quade leaves Wells into the 8th to blow a well pitched game. Another 1 run loss.
Let's move onto the Phillies. The Phillies lose 9 of their last 11 going into the Braves series to finish the year. They sweep the Braves and knock them out.
Texas
Hamilton goes into the post season with that injury. It progressively gets worse.
In game #6 The bullpen melts down like no other game in history.
Over the series they walk more batters than any other series.
Are Cardinal fans still calling for Tony's head?
Tony LaRussa just announced his retirement today. now I really don't like our chances of keeping Albert??
unless he retired from baseball for good. if he manages someplace else, AP will follow him.
Pretty crazy stuff.
Quote from: pdga#7648 on October 31, 2011, 07:59:52 AM
unless he retired from baseball for good. if he manages someplace else, AP will follow him.
This is a ridiculous speculation Doug.
#1 If Pujols leaves St.Louis, it'll be to get the $ he is worth, not to follow around Tony LaRussa. There are only a handful of teams that could even throw $200M+ at Pujols. If anything, you should be speculating that Tony wants to follow Pujols, not the other way around.
#2 LaRussa is 67 years old. I legitimately think he doesn't want the physical grind of the 162 game schedule. He may still work in baseball, but it won't be on the field.
Tony stated he will never manage again, so that's good news.
Not really Dan. Tony and AP have a special relationship not too many players have with their managers.
I think Jose Oquendo should get the job, if Ozzie Smith doesn't.
Buster Olney ESPN, says the Cards have an 8 yr 225MIL offer for AP. He has to take that 28.1 MIL per year.
Quote from: pdga#7648 on October 31, 2011, 08:29:37 AM
Tony stated he will never manage again, so that's good news.
Not really Dan. Tony and AP have a special relationship not too many players have with their managers.
I think Jose Oquendo should get the job, if Ozzie Smith doesn't.
Buster Olney ESPN, says the Cards have an 8 yr 225MIL offer for AP. He has to take that 28.1 MIL per year.
Thanks for letting me know about their special bond Doug. Thats great. I bet it was really really special.
If Buster is accurate with those numbers, there is zero doubt Albert is coming back to St.Louis. Thats a huge deal that makes him more money annually than Arod. I highly doubt anybody will make a significantly better offer than that, especially when Albert just came off his worst season at age 31.
I agree, if those #'s Buster reported are correct there is no way he's leaving. I just don't buy it though. If he was offered that before the season he would have signed. The #'s that were reported didn't have him paid in the top 5 at his position. Is this day #3? 2 more and he hits free agency.
the offer at the beginning of the year was 9 yrs for 190MIL. 21 MIL a year wasnt enough( what a joke ) by Busters #'s they took 1 year off but threw alot more money his way with this offer. I still think he tests the market, just to see who will pay what, but after this run they just had, with that entire team coming back plus Wainwright, and knowing a 10' tall statue of him is being built outside his bar in downtown St. Louis, he comes back. but yes, this is day #3
Quote from: pdga#7648 on October 31, 2011, 09:17:54 AM
the offer at the beginning of the year was 9 yrs for 190MIL. 21 MIL a year wasnt enough( what a joke )
Here's what annoys the rest of the country about Cardinals fans. You fall ass backwards into 2 titles in 6 years, with 2 of the worst regular season teams to ever win the WS, then when one of the 10 best hitters of all-time wants to be paid like one of the 10 best hitters in 2011, you get pissed and think he's being greedy and disloyal. Please.
just because Arod was paid 26.2 mil a year did not mean he was worth it! Texas was paying for that even when he was a Yankee! You have even said AP's best years are behind him. so who on earth is worth 26MIL a year at 37 38 or 39 years of age? Nobody is. Now if he wants 30 mil over 3 years? fine, sign here please! if he wants 10 years, I'll bet no team pays him over 27 MIL a year at 10 years!
That's why the Cards are in contention year after year, because they don't overpay anybody, for any reason. Best in baseball or not?! We underpaid him or 10 years, and got his best 10 years out of him. They won 9 titles before he got here, and will win plenty more without him if he decides to move on. If he does, I really hope he goes to the Cubs. then we can say it's been 110 years without a title, and you had the best player in baseball! ;D
Back in April, yea I was upset he didn't sign. But if he chooses to move on, I will be okay with it now. After seeing the way people played this year, the Cards will battle for that division again next year without him.
There is already talk of Matt Kemp, and Jose Reyes as position players(both free agents) and CJ Wilson as another lefty pitcher.
Even if only 1 of the position players is signed(Kemp)
1B- Berkman
2B- Schumaker
SS- Furcal
3B- Freese
LF- Holliday
CF- Kemp
RF- Craig
C- Molina
that team will compete in the NL Central. Especially with Wainwright, Carpenter, Garcia as the big 3 in the starting rotation!
Now of course, I don't want the best to ever play the game to leave the best baseball city, but if he does he does. I never thought he was that greedy, but we are about to find out if he is loyal like he says he is? We did get his best years, but to see him a Cardinal for life is the way it should be. He has said money isn't the main thing, winning Championships is! We'll see about that, considering St. Louis just gave him his 2nd ring. He didn't give it to St. Louis! without Berkman and Freese, that title would be in Texas!
If he leaves, that 20 million a year will be used between 2-3 players. Pitching is where they need help. Lohse and Westbrook can move on as well! But there is now more money to give him, with LaRussa and Duncan gone.
Time will tell. It's just a great feeling knowing all you Cubs fans will be tuning into Cardinal Nation over the next couple weeks, to see the outcome!
Yes I'm sure the Cardinals will be getting Matt Kemp when he's a free agent in 2013. And yes, the Cardinals never overpay for anybody (forget about that time they traded Dan Haren to the A's for Mark Mulder and then resigned Mulder for 2 more years).
oh yes, so many winning season will make fans forget about Mulder! like I did. ESPN said Kemp was a FA at seasons end??? OK, I'm still sure there is a FA out there with respectable #'s that would fit in fine in the Cardinal uniform. Don't even need good #'s(Berkman) playing for that franchise will bring out the players best(Berkman)
ESPN probably reported on Kemp's contract negotiations with the Dodgers as they look to lock him up long-term.
I love how you pick the guy who is a frontrunner for the 2011 NL MVP to replace Pujols. Really thinking outside the box there. You'd make a heck of a GM!
Sabathia joined the $25M/year club yesterday.
Some of the other biggest current contracts that I'm sure Albert has studied closely:
Arod 10 yr/$275M ($27.5M/yr)
Teixeira 8yr/$180M ($22.5M/yr)
Mauer 8yr/$184M ($23M/yr)
Albert just finished out an 8yr/$111M contract without a single public complaint, so I'd say he's done all he needs to prove his loyalty. The man has 3 MVP's and is a 4-time MVP runner-up. I think $25M+/yr for 8 years will get the job done. If the Cardinals front office throws out anything less, I think its a slap in the face. If the Twins can do $184M for Mauer, the Cardinals have to do $200M+ for Albert. The X-factor is some team wanting to make splash for some immediate fan support (say the Marlins or Dodgers) and offering up a ridiculous contract, lets say 8yr/$300M. How does a man leave that kind of cash on the table?
The big concern I'd have over making him a big offer if I was anybody but the Cardinals is his huge dip in production last year. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml) He was usually rock solid around a .430 on base% for his career. Thats incredible! This year it dipped all the way down to .366%. Thats Aramis Ramirez! (.361 in 2011) 5 times he's slugged over .650%. Last season he slugged a career worst .541%. Maybe it was a down year?
The Yankess have spend some hard core cash. I thought CC might be headed out of town but I thought wrong.
so? does someone make him an offer in the morning?
Quote from: pdga#7648 on November 02, 2011, 08:38:14 PM
so? does someone make him an offer in the morning?
If he's wants the bidding process to play out, his agent will probably wait for the baseball winter meetings, where the major free agent signings usually take place. That is December 5-8.
Pujols is supposedly meeting with the Marlins within the next couple of days to let them "woo" him towards their side. What, did LeBron call him or something?
I'm sure they just want to make it a huge bidding war to have teams tripping over themselves to pick up a player that is going to have an albatross of a contract in less than 5 years. You would think his agent was Scott Boras or something...
Quote from: stpitner on November 11, 2011, 10:46:11 AM
Pujols is supposedly meeting with the Marlins within the next couple of days to let them "woo" him towards their side. What, did LeBron call him or something?
The Marlins are looking to make a big splash in free agency, probably someone with latin-american roots, to help immediately fill their new ballpark that opens next season. Unless they make an absolutely ridiculous offer, I can't possibly see Pujols going there. Jose Reyes is probably more likely for them. They could move the defense-challenged Hanley Ramirez to 2B or the OF.
he's on vacation, writing this off to the IRS as a job interview ;D
Noway he signs in Florida. They say their payroll is $57MIL now and wont go over $80MIL. good luck Marlins!
Quote from: pdga#7648 on November 11, 2011, 11:12:14 AM
he's on vacation, writing this off to the IRS as a job interview ;D
Noway he signs in Florida. They say their payroll is $57MIL now and wont go over $80MIL. good luck Marlins!
the key there Doug is that it was $57M
last year. They don't have $57M committed for next season, there is alot more than $23M available to spend on the offseason even if $80M is the cap. Either way, I don't think you should be too worried about the Marlins actually signing him. I'm sure Pujols' agent is interested in using the Marlins offer to try to jack up some offers from other teams though.
The Cardinals will be hard pressed to re-sign him now I think.
Cardinals just announced their new Manager as Mike Matheny. don't really know how to feel about it? thought for sure Jose was going to get it. oh well, going to be interesting.
Quote from: pdga#7648 on November 13, 2011, 03:50:08 PM
The Cardinals will be hard pressed to re-sign him now I think.
I think thats a bit of an overreaction. Do you know something about the Pujols/Matheny past relationship that makes you think Albert wouldn't want to play for him? I'm pretty sure managerial situations are a distant second to $$$$$$$ when it comes to the factors Albert is weighing in making his decision.
Dan, the Cardinals already said he was not going to get any more than the 9 year 210 MIL offer they gave him. That's 23.3 MIL a year. Or do you think they will give him that 210 but maybe just 7-8 years to make him 30 MIL? Sources say Miami's offer was nowhere near even considering, so 1 down. ;D
No, I don't know about there relationship, but I think AP will want to play for somebody that has proven he can win. All Matheny ever proved was he could play catcher. I will give the man his fair chance, but wont be very confident in him managing a win like Tony could, with or without AP.
get your hopes up Cubbie fans. they contacted Pujols's agent about talking about a contract. I think it's just Theo's move to up the Cardinals price. Making them pay top dollar for him.
why not toss your hat in the ring if you have the cash to do it? It would be stupid to not at least make an offer.
Marlins made an offer. This is starting to get interesting. I still can't believe the Cards let it get to this point.
10 years at 225 million. barely more than he turned down from St. Louis, 9 years 200 million. He wont go to Miami people. Why would he want to play in front of 7,600 fans at home games?
I'm suprised only 3 teams made an offer to him yesterday, Cards, Cubs and Marlins! if it's just those 3 in the running, I'm not worried. He will be a Cardinal!
Quote from: pdga#7648 on December 06, 2011, 09:17:31 AM
10 years at 225 million. barely more than he turned down from St. Louis, 9 years 200 million. He wont go to Miami people. Why would he want to play in front of 7,600 fans at home games?
I'm suprised only 3 teams made an offer to him yesterday, Cards, Cubs and Marlins! if it's just those 3 in the running, I'm not worried. He will be a Cardinal!
Actually thats $25MM dollars more, or 13%. That is not "barely" more, even if it is over the course of 1 more year. Pujols may give a hometown discount to St.Louis, but I bet it won't be a 13% discount.
I don't know what Miami's attendance projects to be next season, but I guarantee it will be up quite a bit from last season. Historically, when any team opens a new ballpark their attendance sees an immediate spike in the next couple years. If you factor in an offseason where they add Jose Reyes, Albert Pujols, and Heath Bell? I'm pretty sure that would eliminate any worry of poor attendance in Miami next season. They showed up in droves when LeBron and Bosh came to town. Miami is no joke if they do get Pujols. You're talking about a serious contender for years to come with a ton of young talent including Josh Johnson, Ricky Nolasco, Reyes, Bell, Hanley Ramirez, Mike Stanton, Gaby Sanchez.
If St.Louis is going to sign him, they will have to come up on their offer, which I believe they ultimately will. But don't count out the possibility of Miami throwing out a ridiculous offer if they've decided they NEED Pujols to fill this new stadium. Anything is possible at this point with the Marlins. I think they locked up Reyes and Bell so quickly to make this offer more attractive for Pujols. The next couple days should be interesting.
One thing that I did not consider. I caught this on MLB network last night and they were talking about Florida state taxes. I didn't cach the exact details but that could make a huge difference with that big of difference.
Marlins are offering him 22.5 M a year. Cardinals offered him 22.2M per year. not that much of a difference Dan. $300,000 a year. I don't think that gets him to sign in Florida. No matter who they signed already. Cardinals have a contending team already, Miami still has to try to buy one!
Quote from: CEValkyrie on December 06, 2011, 12:29:50 PM
One thing that I did not consider. I caught this on MLB network last night and they were talking about Florida state taxes. I didn't cach the exact details but that could make a huge difference with that big of difference.
Florida and Texas don't have any state income tax.
So then Florida is offering him 22.5mm per year and St. Louis is essentially offering him ~15mm with an interest free high five loan to the government of just under 8mm a year.
Doug, first of all we don't know the $ value of the Miami offer. This 225 number is a rumor that is probably an educated guess by somebody.
Second, by stating the difference between the two contracts is $300,000 per year, you are saying the extra year means very little. I understand that is the logic that a Cardinals fan would like to use at this point, but it couldn't be more wrong. There is a very good chance this will be Pujols' last contract, so the extra year on a guaranteed contract essentially amounts to an extra $25MM in Pujols' pocket. He probably won't be worth anywhere near top dollar at age 41 and he knows it. He's got to get every last dollar on this contract that he can, because its his last chance at a bigtime deal.
If Missouri's state tax rate is similar to IL, then that makes Miami's offer worth another 5%. I would guess Albert would look past this if St.Louis is willing to match Miami's offer. All we hear is rumors and speculation right now. Who knows whats happening behind closed doors in Texas right now.
The new ESPN rumor is that the Cards have increased their offer to 10 yr 220MM. Albert's performance has declined significantly each of the past 2 seasons. Whoever gets this guy better hope thats not a trend, or its going to be a long 10 years! If this ends up being a bad contract in a couple years, it will cripple Miami or St.Louis for years to come. Neither of these teams have the enormous revenue base to overcome a bad signing like this.
This is getting excited. I have the suicide prevent number ready for Cardinal fans.
you guys are hilarious! we dont need a suicide number Brett.
220 MM or 225 MM. He takes the 5 million less to stay a Redbird. Because he knows he can win there. Nobody knows what the Marlins will be like. Reyes will probably pull a hamstring before the season kicks off?? I just really can't believe not more teams got involved. we knew the Cubs wouldn't and Couldn't make a legit offer.
I think the Marlins screwed up by telling him they wanted an answer by last night? who are they to pressure the best player in baseball? if the Cards couldn't pressure him into a deal, what makes the Marlins think they can?
Tim Kirkjian said it best this morning. Cardinals will win this bidding war! Marlins trying to pressure him, and he wont like that!
but here ya go Brett & Dan. do you guys think if he leaves St. Louis and goes to Miami, that the Cubs will be better than the Cardinals in 2012?
I'd love to get Pujols out of the division, although would much rather see him leave the league if he's not going to be on the Cubs. If anything the cubs are just helping drive up the price. I feel like I'm watching an episode of Storage Wars. It just makes me wonder what the price tag on Prince is going to be. I would not be surprised if the Cubs pass on both. I wonder if Vitters could move from 3rd to 1st... although there wouldn't be anything all that bad if you keep Carlos Pena for another year.
Quote from: pdga#7648 on December 07, 2011, 09:15:20 AM
but here ya go Brett & Dan. do you guys think if he leaves St. Louis and goes to Miami, that the Cubs will be better than the Cardinals in 2012?
Doug, its not that surprising that very few teams are considering giving a declining player a 10 year deal. I don't mind him ending up in St.Louis. I think he's got 3 or 4 elite level years left at the most. Then you'll be stuck with a bad contract for half a decade, right about the time Epstein's organization will hopefully have the Cubs reaching contender status.
As far as your question about 2012, who cares? The Cardinals weren't that good last year, and I don't think they'll be significantly better next year. The Cubs also don't project to be a serious threat, whether they make a big splash in free agency or not. The Phillies will still be the class of the NL regardless.
Marlins withdrew offer to Pujols, signed Mark Burehle. We will take him for 10 years, and probably 2 more WS Titles. they wont have a bad contract situation as bad as the Cubs have had the last 8 years!
You think the Cubs will actually be contenders in 5 years is freakin hilarious! They could of landed AP and not been contenders!
Quote from: Dan Michler on December 07, 2011, 02:01:44 PM
Quote from: pdga#7648 on December 07, 2011, 09:15:20 AM
but here ya go Brett & Dan. do you guys think if he leaves St. Louis and goes to Miami, that the Cubs will be better than the Cardinals in 2012?
As far as your question about 2012, who cares? The Cardinals weren't that good last year, and I don't think they'll be significantly better next year.
That's pretty silly Dan! They were the BEST team in October, the Trophy proves that!
and one friggin strike from being the losers. GRR to you, Texas!!
Well Doug the angels signed Pujols for 10yrs for 250 Millions so no championship for the Cards this coming year
woo, off to the AL with you where you can turn into an Albatross contract
still not a done deal, but talk about swooping in from nowhere!
very very suprised. at least he's out of the NL, to where he can't hurt us all year!
But the Cardinals will sign someone, just watch
Can we go back and count the number of times Doug mocked anybody who suggested Albert would leave St.Louis? Its a business buddy, and your guy is gone.
Don't blame Albert, blame the Cardinals organization who lowballed him bigtime before this season, pissing him off and leading to this day. You don't make one of the top 3 first basemen of alltime an offer to be the 4th highest paid first basemen today and expect him to be happy and loyal to you. I don't think the Cardinals thought he had the balls to walk away, but they just learned that lesson the hard way.
Its a happy day in Chicago! No more Pujols walk-off homeruns in Wrigley Field! Thank God! Middle of the St.Louis order just got a lot less scary!
Now the Prince Fielder negotiations can begin....
WOW!! I cannot believe the Cardinals management allowed this to carry over to this. They should have reworked his deal several years ago or prior to the season. What a huge hole to fill.
Dan just hit it out of the park. No more Pujols jacks in Wrigley field. We will not find out how good Holliday and Berkman really are.
unfortunately we'll have to continue to witness Marmol walk off wild pitches that allows a stupid win that enabled the team to get to the playoffs anyway...
so Kendry Morales is probably now on the trading block from the Angels since they have a new first baseman now, would he be a better option than Prince? He was hurt with an ankle injury last year, but in 2009 had 34 homers, 108 RBI, although 117 K's and an ok 46 walks. Might be worth considering.
Cubs are playing AL Central teams in interleague this year, so no chance of seeing Pujols in the regular season, woo.
Quote from: Dan Michler on December 08, 2011, 08:17:30 AM
Can we go back and count the number of times Doug mocked anybody who suggested Albert would leave St.Louis? Its a business buddy, and your guy is gone.
Don't blame Albert, blame the Cardinals organization who lowballed him bigtime before this season, pissing him off and leading to this day. You don't make one of the top 3 first basemen of alltime an offer to be the 4th highest paid first basemen today and expect him to be happy and loyal to you. I don't think the Cardinals thought he had the balls to walk away, but they just learned that lesson the hard way.
Its a happy day in Chicago! No more Pujols walk-off homeruns in Wrigley Field! Thank God! Middle of the St.Louis order just got a lot less scary!
Now the Prince Fielder negotiations can begin....
Dan 73 is that number.
But dude, even you have said that 10 yrs was too many for even Albert, so why would the orginization hand cuff themselves for 10 years? wouldn't have been smart. his last 2 years he dropped way off, like you pointed out, so no, he isn't worth 250 million dollars. That just frees up money to go get players, and the Cards will do that!
but was I suprised? hell yes. all his preaching money isnt an issue, and wanting to be a Cardinal for life was just horseshit!
WOW!!!! The Angels signed C.J. Wilson now there rotation is deadly with Weaver,Wilson, Santana, and Haren
I think he did want to be a Cardinal for life. But if he had to choose between $50 million or being a Cardinal for life...well how many people are turning down the $50M? At the end of the day, the Cardinals didn't want him as much as the Angels, and I'm sure that hurt his feelings. Don't tell me they couldn't afford him either. The truth is they just couldn't afford to keep Wainwright and Pujols long-term, and they chose to keep Wainwright. He's given alot to St.Louis for 11 years at far less than market value, and they refused to give him the payday he deserved. He was worth more in St.Louis than anywhere else because of what he means to the fans there. There will be alot of angry fans next season down in St.Louis. Winning cures all that though, so they better win.
I do think the Cardinals are better off in the long-run without making this deal. I would not have been happy to see him sign with the Cubs for 10 years, but am very happy he is out of the division. He probably still has 3 or 4 more killer seasons left in him. Its those last 6 years that may haunt the Angels. Maybe in a few years when they discover he's currently 34 years old and not 31 years old, they can get the deal voided.
MO would have taken too much heat if he gave him a 10 yr deal. not the money part, but the 10 years. it came out today, the Cards never offered him 10 yrs or the 220 MM. it was still the 9 year deal they offered in Feb.
don't get me wrong, I was very pissed at 1st. If he wasn't telling Cardinal nation that he wanted to be a Card for life and money was not the issue, then today wouldn't of mattered. But he lied, and lied, and lied. If he wanted or felt he deserved more money, being the best in the game, why didn't he restructure his contract 3 years ago?
I still feel the Birds will make a move now. They have too!
he also got a full no trade clause, so when he get old he can be an old codger and refuse to go anywhere and just completely screw with the Angels. For his sake I hope his power numbers don't just fall off the side of a cliff like some players when they started to get old. At least he'll be able to enjoy the weather.
Now who said St. Louis wouldn't sign someone if AP left?? Carlos Beltran just inked a 2 yr. deal! everyone thought Berkman was done, but had an MVP type year. I'll say Beltran impresses just the same playing right or center field. There are still talks of signing Coco Crisp to play center, Beltran in right.
Crisp
Beltran
Holliday
Berkman
Freese
Molina
Furcal
Shumaker
Waino, Carpenter, Garcia, Lohse, ?
looks solid enough to win that division anyway!
All I'll say about Beltran is that Mets fans are happy he's gone. Who goes on the DL first in 2012, Furcal or Beltran?
I'm amazed St. Lou is finding all this money to sign these guys. Talk about a pissing match. There is a lot more behind the scenes between AP and the management than we thought.
Quote from: Dan Michler on December 23, 2011, 05:04:21 AM
All I'll say about Beltran is that Mets fans are happy he's gone. Who goes on the DL first in 2012, Furcal or Beltran?
Furcal
and Cardinals fans are happy to have him. another power switch hitter, who can steal a base or 3. we welcome him with open arms. he was a Cardinal killer in a visitors uniform.
Quote from: CEValkyrie on December 23, 2011, 05:34:39 AM
I'm amazed St. Lou is finding all this money to sign these guys. Talk about a pissing match. There is a lot more behind the scenes between AP and the management than we thought.
they are not finding money, they have it and are just spending it wisely.
Berkman took a pay cut rom 11-12 mil down to 8 mil. Beltran is getting 13 mil a yr. add those 2 together and it's 21 mil, LESS than what AP wanted. They get 2 good bats instead o 1.
Yes, maybe it is a pissing match, but one that will favor the Cardinals in the long run, when AP isn't producing and is a DH making 25.4 mil a yr. Yes, AP wanted all kinds of money for an ungodly amount of time. I think AP is mad, furious about getting underpaid for sooo long?? So he went where they money was.
Quote from: pdga#7648 on December 23, 2011, 07:21:21 AM
they are not finding money, they have it and are just spending it wisely.
Berkman took a pay cut rom 11-12 mil down to 8 mil. Beltran is getting 13 mil a yr. add those 2 together and it's 21 mil, LESS than what AP wanted. They get 2 good bats instead o 1.
Doug Payne fact check...Lance Berkman signed a 1 yr/$8M with Cards in 2011. In 2012 he got a raise with a 1 year/$12M deal. According to my math, thats not a paycut, but a 50% raise. I know Cardinal fans love to think every player should want to play for free in St.Louis, but lets at least get our facts straight.
ok, so I had the years reversed, my bad. but the FACT still remains. they got 2 good bats cheaper than AP's by $400,000. and it's just 2 years, not 10. they will be able to bring up the farm kids in 2 years. while competing again this year. no rebuilding in this great baseball city!
heard from a friend last night that the Angels went to 4 different banks for loans, cause they haven't got any money for the big TV deal. They can't even pay Pujols now, let alone in 10 years. F'in hilarious!
From the Los Angeles Times:
Albert Pujols' contract with the Angels guarantees the slugger $240 million over 10 years and includes a personal-services agreement worth at least $10 million, according to several Internet reports, the details of which were confirmed by a person familiar with the deal but not authorized to speak publicly about it.
The contract is heavily backloaded, which helped the Angels accommodate the five-year, $77.5-million deal for pitcher C.J. Wilson, and includes hefty milestone bonuses that could push the package's value to $260 million.
If Pujols, who amassed 2,073 hits and 445 home runs in 11 seasons in St. Louis, reaches 3,000 hits, a milestone he is on pace to hit in 2016 or 2017, he will receive a $3-million bonus.
If Pujols, who turns 32 in January, breaks Barry Bonds' home run record of 762 -- Pujols would need to average 32 homers a season over the life of the contract to do so -- he will receive an additional $7 million.
Pujols, whose deal includes a full no-trade clause, is to be paid $12 million next season, which will push the Angels' projected 2012 payroll to about $150 million, and $16 million in 2013.
Pujols' base pay will jump to $23 million in 2014, at which point it will increase by $1 million each season over the final seven years of the contract, concluding with a $30-million salary in 2021.
I read that the other day.
Did you see the day they had the press conference with Wilson & AP? There were 4,000+ people there. I read that the new TV deal with Fox Sports is 2 billion + over the next 20 years.
This staggering to me.
The signings paid immediate dividends. After losing a few thousand in season-ticket sales last winter, there has been a spike in ticket sales since the signings—approximately 2,000 season seats were sold in the first week plus 4,000 mini-plans. Individual game tickets do not even go on sale until March. Meanwhile, the team store at the stadium began stocking Pujols and Wilson items and already had surpassed the total sales figures from December 2010 by Dec. 15.
Cardinals are now pursuing Roy Oswalt! Wow, they just wont stop! Waino, Carp, Garcia, Oswalt and who cares who the 5thy starter will be! ;)
Only you would view that as a dream rotation. Its not like its Halladay/Lee/Hamels, especially when you consider Wainwright is coming off elbow surgery. It might be a full season or more before he's really back to his normal self, if ever. Garcia is a really solid #3 starter, but he's no ace.
Oswalt is 34, spent time on the DL last year and only pitched 139 innings with an ERA of 3.69. His stuff isn't the same as it once was and had career worsts in many key stats. I'd say there are several red flags there, similar to a Carlos Zambrano.
Aren't you a bit concerned about the fact the Cards are spending all their money on guys past their prime who will be in their mid 30's next season? Carpenter (37), Berkman (36), Holliday (32), Furcal (34), Beltran (35) 2012 should be an interesting year to see if the Cardinals roster can hold up health-wise.
First of all, if that was the Cubs starting rotation, you would be posting Cubs are going to the WS!
And you mean, Halladay, Lee, Hamels, who the Cardinals and their weak bats beat in the playoffs in 2011? OK!
Waino was throwing in the bullpen before the WS started, so I'm confident he will be back to normal in 2012. Garcia does not have to be an Ace, just pitch thru 6 innings.
Ok, Oswalt wasn't himself last year, but that 3.69 ERA will drop in that weak ass division, as you say year after year! and even if it doesn't, 3.69 is pretty good!
about being concerned about the age of people we are signing?? not at all! Why??
Mozeliak does not care that Beltran is 34 years old. That's just a number. Besides, the Cards are not putting this team together with an eye toward winning in 2015.
Lance Berkman (35), Rafael Furcal (34) and Chris Carpenter (36) have no idea how long they'll be performing at a high level.
So the goal is to win again in 2012 and then to figure out what comes next.
Shelby Miller will be a starter on this staff in 2 years, so sign the old guys now, if that means another WS Title. And I know you watch baseball and baseball tonight, so I know that you know the Cardinals are the favorite in the Central.
Especially when Fielder signs in Washington!
Talk to me in July, and let me know how these signings look! ;)
I'll agree the Cardinals are the favorite in the division right now, with the Reds behind them. They are further from the Phillies though, but as last year proved, all you have to do is get in the dance and anything is possible.
You're right, age is just a number. A number that accurately predicts when a player's performance will decline.
I can't wait to see how these signings work out. Things have the potential to go very badly very quickly for this Cardinal team. There are alot more uncertainties with this squad than in the past. Time will tell.
I did see Fielder is leaning toward the Nats according to the rumors. I'll be disappointed if the Cubs don't land him, but its a rebuilding process next year even if we do have him. There will be more opportunities over the next few seasons to find a big bat to stick over at first. I've put my faith in the new regime to figure it out.
Quote from: Dan Michler on January 03, 2012, 04:48:08 PM
I'll agree the Cardinals are the favorite in the division right now, with the Reds behind them. They are further from the Phillies though, but as last year proved, all you have to do is get in the dance and anything is possible.
You're right, age is just a number. A number that accurately predicts when a player's performance will decline.
I can't wait to see how these signings work out. Things have the potential to go very badly very quickly for this Cardinal team. There are alot more uncertainties with this squad than in the past. Time will tell.
I know it's 12 games in, but how's Beltran looking? has to be something in the water to bring players back to stardom in that great baseball town of St. Louis! ;)
and that other guy has not hit a HR in his first 11 games. 1st time in his career. Declining numbers are the best!
Very early Doug. It won't be long until Beltran is chasing Berkman to the DL. You'll be begging for AP to come back. I have Holliday on my fantasy team. He better start hitting.
but one thing you forget, we have people to fill in while Berkman or whoever is on the DL! Matt Carpenter hass 11 rbi already filling in at 1st base. and Craig will be back soon. I will never beg for The Greedy One to come back. He can keephis 0 HR's and 4Rbi's in LA after 14 games! ;D
Furcal and Beltran on the DL huh you guys?
Funny, they are both STARTERS on the All Star team! Beltran still has better numbers than AP across the board! Greed doesn't live in St. Louis. It lives in California now!
Quote from: Dan Michler on January 03, 2012, 04:48:08 PM
I can't wait to see how these signings work out. Things have the potential to go very badly very quickly for this Cardinal team. There are alot more uncertainties with this squad than in the past. Time will tell.
I
pretty good huh Danny Boy?
Currently the Cardinals would miss the playoffs. Beltran is having a monster year. Furcal sucks!
Get over the greed thing. He had an organization who would actually pay him. If you had a company that came in and offered you considerable amount of money you'd leave too.
I'm amazed what Pujols can do when he gets hot. He's been on fire. ESPN stat showed they are 17-7 over his hot streak.
We'll see what Beltran does when the pressure cooker is on. That's if he isn't on the shelf.
not hot enough I guess?? 1st year in the AL and no All-Star game for AP? ;D Hilarious!
Pujols
.284 20 67 .350
Beltran
.284 24 75 .359
Starting to even out there. Maybe STL should have saved the 12 million they are giving Berkman and paid Pujols!!!
Quote from: CEValkyrie on July 31, 2012, 09:31:47 PM
Starting to even out there. Maybe STL should have saved the 12 million they are giving Berkman and paid Pujols!!!
At this point, it seems pretty obvious the Cardinals made the right decision in not paying Pujols, regardless of what Beltran does. Unless Pujols has a drastic turnaround, his career arc is absolutely trending downward. I would hate to be locked in to 9 more years with him right now, no matter the pricetag.
The smarter Cardinal fans I know seem to have some perspective on the difficult business decision that resulted in Pujols heading to L.A. They are still fans of Pujols because of the Hall of Fame career he put up in St.Louis, rather than wishing failure upon him.
http://larrybrownsports.com/category/baseball
albert p needed a tissue Sat night after this play
how does he argue with the ump when the ump is right there ?
hey bartman, see how you do it, let your team catch the ball , block the OTHER team from catching
he did have last laugh with some home runs in the series
also,
when the angels manager goes to protest the game, he is causing the delay, why does their picture get
to throw pratice pitches,
its HIS mgr delaying the game
this was on friday
2 out of 3 from them , angels not going to make playoffs
Quote from: airspuds on August 07, 2012, 12:48:45 PM
http://larrybrownsports.com/category/baseball
albert p needed a tissue Sat night after this play
how does he argue with the ump when the ump is right there ?
Haha and of course it happens to be AJ Pierzynski's at bat.
Quote from: Dan Michler on August 01, 2012, 05:18:57 AM
Quote from: CEValkyrie on July 31, 2012, 09:31:47 PM
Starting to even out there. Maybe STL should have saved the 12 million they are giving Berkman and paid Pujols!!!
At this point, it seems pretty obvious the Cardinals made the right decision in not paying Pujols, regardless of what Beltran does. Unless Pujols has a drastic turnaround, his career arc is absolutely trending downward. I would hate to be locked in to 9 more years with him right now, no matter the pricetag.
Smartest thing I have ever witnessed Dan saying!!
And I don't wish failure upon him, his #'s are dropping on thier own! Age does that to players, even the best of alltime!!
but still Brett, the Cardinals are playing better without AP. They are the best in NL in runs scored, and close to the top in BA. Holliday is .320ish, Molina .310, Jay has to be close to or over .300. and look at all of those HR's. They may still lead the NL??
and 59-52 is the Angels record. Cards are 60-50. need I say more??
Quote from: pdga#7648 on August 08, 2012, 08:59:42 AM
but still Brett, the Cardinals are playing better without AP. They are the best in NL in runs scored, and close to the top in BA. Holliday is
and 59-52 is the Angels record. Cards are 60-50. need I say more??
You are on crack. If you think the NL Central is better than the AL West you nuts. LAA might have 70 wins in this pathetic division.
are you serious? who is good besides Texas?? Oakland will fall off hard. But I never said Central was better than the AL West. I'm just saying the Cardinals are just fine without AP. And 3 teams are pathetic in the NL Central, CUBS, Houston and Milwaukee. The other 3 are in the playoffs or just 2.5 games out of a wildcard spot. and all at least 10 games over .500
Cards have outscored opponents by 114 runs, Angels just 47! ;)
Quote from: pdga#7648 on August 08, 2012, 02:54:58 PM
Cards have outscored opponents by 114 runs, Angels just 47! ;)
If they played the Cubs & the Astros that much they'd outscore them by 114 too ;)
touche, I guess? even though just 8-6 vs Scrubbies!
Ouch! That run differential went down to 99 after that 15-0 pounding! Welcome to my world.
Just had to bring this back to life. Beltran has come back to earth while Pujols continues his stardom. Luckily for the Cardinals the expanded they playoffs this year. They'll probably find a way to win the Worlds Series as the worst team ever again.
Carlos Beltran
BA HR RBI OBP SLG
.268 28 85 .340 .504
Post All Star--.217
Albert Pujols
BA HR RBI OBP SLG
.288 29 90 .348 .540
Post All Star--.322
worst team in regular season? maybe! but they were the BEST team when it mattered, playoffs and WS! that's what matters!
and compare salaries of Beltran and the Greedy one, and tell me who you would rather pay for comparable #'s. Who is in playoffs if season ended today? Yep Beltran and the Cardinals, not the Angels! :D
I'm over the Pujols thing. Who cares what Beltran does. From a historical perspective, the Pujols contract will only be judged by his own performance. As it stands now, his numbers are approximately on par with his 2011 season, and still nowhere near his 2001-2010 prime. He's still one of the top 10 hitters in the game though.
I'm more interested in what his teammate Mike Trout is doing. In my opinion he is the runaway winner of both the AL Rookie of the Year and AL MVP this year, and is probably the best defensive outfielder in the AL as well, and is also super fun to watch.
.336- 25 HR -41 for 45 in SB - .400 OnBase% #1 in OPS. For anybody that looks at advanced metrics, Trout's WAR of 8.9 is the highest in MLB since Pujols in 2009.
The only players to ever win MVP ROY in the same year are: Ichiro (2001) Fred Lynn (1975)
Trout just turned 21 a few weeks ago. This guy's career is going to be one to watch. Maybe he wants to play for the Cubs? ;)
Nice pic of busch stadiium from the field.
Hope AP enjoys this view, as he watches the playoffs. ;D
5 Cardinal starters had a higher average than him!( Jay, Holliday, Craig, Molina, Freese) Albert Who?? Looks like the Cardinals SHOULD be playing against Atlanta to see who goes to the playoffs?
AP had a fantastic year. The AL is tough. The LAA have more wins than the Cardinals. Just be glad STL got a chance to play the Cubs and Houston.
I think his #'s dropped yet again across the board? Just reminding you that the Cardinals don't need him to be a winning team. You said they would struggle without him! ;D
Do you really believe the Cards are better without him this year? They struggled just to make it into an expanded playoff. Just be glad they play in an awful division.
well let's see here? they had 5 guys bat higher than him. they had 5 guys hit 20+ HR's for the 1st time in team history, and they made it back to playoff contention, without paying out a buttload of money! How did spending all that cash work out for the Angels?
Do I think they are better without him this year? Yes, cause with him, they wouldn't be where they are with 2 games remaining. With him and all his money, they wouldn't have spots for the Craig's, Jay's, M. Carpenter, or Beltran. So the Cards would not have that chance to beat Atlanta and get back to the playoffs. And struggled?? They have had this cushion for a few weeks now, that's not struggling. The Dodgers are struggling to stay alive, not the Redbirds. And just remember, it's not the best team during regular season, it's who plays the best in October, like the 2011 Cardinals.
you may want to edit the topic title
Pujols Watch ING playoffs at home.
Im impressed St Louis has come so far with new mgr , loss of prima dona, injuries, normal baseball stuff
love the stadium , also the port a potties on the streets , always useful
good luck against the giants
yea Spuds, this is what it looks like.
The only Pujols Watch I see is him watching this.....