OK, we all know that DISContinuum cannot endorse any specific political affilliation or stance. Nor would we want to. But we'd still like to encourage people to vote - because every vote counts! So tell us your thoughts on which candidate will best lead this country through the next four years........
I will vote for Al Sharpton in the primaries. Unfortunately, he'll never gain momentum and I'll be forced to throw my support behind Kerry - but only because Nader isn't running......
QuoteI will vote for Al Sharpton in the primaries. Unfortunately, he'll never gain momentum and I'll be forced to throw my support behind Kerry - but only because Nader isn't running......
Don't you like what the Botox has done for Kerry's looks? Check out the pictures at www.drudgereport.com if you have not seen the before and after shots. Personally, I think he looks great without the hound dog wrinkles, but Bush's Botox job in 2000 looked more natural.
While Kerry's people are busy saying, "What Botox?" the "bunny lines" are giving Kerry away. Look for the smiling picture that has no forehead furrows but does have little parallel wrinkles on the side of his nose that look like kitty or bunny whiskers. Those are the bunny lines that will give away any Botoxified face when they smile. It is caused by a muscular compensation in the little muscles in the nose that don't get paralyzed and are working all by themselves to do the work formerly done by a whole face full of tiny muscles.
I think Kerry's not so well known personal details will kill him in the general election, if the other primary candidates give up and give him the nomination. But will they? At this moment Dean still has the lead in delegates because he has more super-delegates, and Kerry has not won more than 40% in the two tiny states that have weighed in. Dean may have marginalized himself with the Iowa Wail but Edwards could pick up steam in the South. If it looks like a three-way race with no one getting a majority before the convention, Lieberman and Clark have no reason to go away. This could be the best presidential primary season of our lives, for those of us who find presidential politics to be more fun than the NFL playoffs.
If they let me vote [I don't know if they reinstated the members-only rule in Michigan] I'm voting for Joe. I loved his work in ALF. I hope he can get ALF on the ticket or at least a prominent place in the Cabinet.
I would vote for any candidate who would add the tagline:
"My name is _________ and I endorse this message"
to the following:
http://www.hauntedmansion.info/bushin41point2.htm (http://www.hauntedmansion.info/bushin41point2.htm)
failing that, from a practical standpoint I'll support the most electable candidate, if he's still running by the time the IL primary is here. Seems like that would be Kerry or Clark, maybe Edwards.
I'm not optimistic about the fall; I expect the ruling class to figure out a way to steal yet another election.
I'm not sure what Bruce means re: Kerry's personal details, but I imagine the so-called 'liberal media' will ferret them out; not enough people seemed to care about Mr. Bush's stellar past, though.
Anyone but Bush.
that link was excellent, damon!
funny how we haven't heard a word about the stagnant oil pipeline that the senior (Papa) Bush bought last year... that pipeline once carried oil from Iraq through Iran into Russia. Russia had dramatically cut their orders for oil through this pipeline years ago, so the Iraqis stopped sending it. One month before the "war" started, Bush Sr. bought that pipeline, but could not get a hold of the right to use the processing plants in Iraq.
So his son stole them at the cost of hundreds of American lives.
Oh yeah, a few hundred thousand people from Iraq and neighboring countries happened to die as well.
I got this info over the last several months from salon.com, cnn, and nomorefakenews.com.
http://www.funsnap.com/1/bushgirl.swf (http://www.funsnap.com/1/bushgirl.swf)
http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html (http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html)
http://www.bushorchimp.com/ (http://www.bushorchimp.com/)
http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm (http://www.realchange.org/bushjr.htm)
Not a damn one of em.
QuoteNot a damn one of em.
I felt the same way in 1980, so I didn't vote. Reagan won and I've blamed myself ever since.
As much as I want to see #43 ejected from the game this November I just don't see it happening at this point.
I will still certainly do my part to help it happen, but well.... Its gonna be hard.
Hell, this election could shape up to be a repeat of 2000.
The President of the United States is the most powerful man in the world and consequently has many extremely difficult decisions to make. To the person who made the assumption that President Bush's motivation for the war in Iraq was his personal financial well-being, I wonder if you truly searched for information from both perspectives on this war? Do you really believe you have some inside information about the reason for war that very few other people have? I don't care if George Bush, Sr. did buy a pipeline before the war started; I don't have the same information the President has and will not make ridiculous statements like "jim" has. If you don't like Bush, thats fine, but do you really think you have the information to prove that he is so corrupt that he sacrificed thousands of lives to make himself a few more million dollars?
I had been looking at this site daily for a few weeks now and enjoying learning about disc golf. I had even considered joining the group. That came to an end with this subject and a look at the group.
With the last Democrat we had 8 years of the worst President that this country has ever had; ignoring terrorism, leaving the country in recession, turning down a chance to be given Bin Laden, raising taxes, slashing the military, decimating the CIA, lying, disrespect for women, running the country on poll data, appointing radical left wing liberal judicial appointees, and building even a bigger government. No, I'm thankful every day that the radical Florida Court was stopped from stealing the election.
Today we are coming out of the Clinton recession, we are fighting the war on terrorism agressively rather than letting the French guide us, and the radical left wing is being stopped. Thankfully, Hollywood, Ted Kennedy, trial lawyers, Jesse Jackson, union bosses, the Clintons, and a huge collection of radical groups no longer control our lives.
Although the GOP must stop Bush from some of his own liberal acts; imigration, funding the arts, and drug entitlement programs. He is by far the best President since Reagan.
No, I won't be joining this.
'Bush' and 'liberal acts' cannot be said in the same sentence without dimensions melting into one another. Holy moly, all the Doctor Whos would come together at once (again)!!!
I started this thread for the sole purpose of having a place to vent and have FUN.
This CLUB, as I said before, does not endorse or condemn any candidate of any election anywhere or anytime.
These are PERSONAL viewpoints and opinions. We are NOT a political group and we are NOT lobbyists.
If anyone gets offended by something aid in this "Shoot the Breeze" forum, you may be too high strung to have fun playing disc golf with.
Well, new guy no more, I'm sorry to say that if thats how you feel then its your loss.
See, most users of this board can recognize that everyone is entitiled to their own viewpoints. If you think that a sampling of 8 out of 64 is indictive of the group then you're wrong.
I hope you would reconsider. Many differing opinions can only serve to make us all better.
how can any non-liberal not be offended by your comments jim? you started the thread thinking it would be a fun way to bash conservatives. you say that we sacrificed lives in iraq for a few dollars and then you question why people would be offended. don't make such extreme comments if you can't handle people calling you out on your ignorance.
Quote...If anyone gets offended by something said in this "Shoot the Breeze" forum, you may be too high strung to have fun playing disc golf with.
I think this is the only thing that Jim has said in this topic that I can whole heartedly say that I agree with. :D
Quotehow can any non-liberal not be offended by your comments jim? you started the thread thinking it would be a fun way to bash conservatives. you say that we sacrificed lives in iraq for a few dollars and then you question why people would be offended. don't make such extreme comments if you can't handle people calling you out on your ignorance.
well, r (quite an unusual name, if you don't mind me saying so), at least your opinions seem to be shared by at least 2 other recent contributors. One would almost think you're the same person.
We all know that Jim is probably the most notorious lefty in the club, but the three of you (will there be more?) should really all get together since all of your shots apparently drift to the right....
don't forget to tip your waitress.
I would not be offended by good political discussion. That's one of the great things about this country and what a lot of Americans have fought and died for. What bothers me is the ruthless "hate for Bush" inspired vile name calling.
Discussing with friends the differences in records and beliefs of candidates is intellegent discourse. Links to web sites that simply spew hate with no substance are offensive. I would think liberals like Liberman or the late Paul Simon, quality men with views that would differ from mine, would likely agree. I would enjoy sitting down and discussing politics with men like that.
For some reason, today's Democrat spends more time trying to freighten seniors and minorities with blatent lies, spreading made up rumors as fact, underminine our military, and spewing hate, than discussion issues. I believe the reason is, that over time the liberal message has been seen to be terribly flawed. Tax and spend does not work. Keeping people dependent on government to keep Democrat power does not work. Murdering the unborn does not work. Being easy on criminals does not work. The UN does not work. Taxing us to prosperity does not work. Socialized medicine does not work. And I could keep going on.
"R" is correct. This thread was not structured to allow intellegent discussion but to invite the hate to come out from the left.
And yes, I enjoy disc golf and a lot of other sports. But I can do them without the company of offensive people.
They're different people Damon - one uses an AOL dialup & the other a local area Chicago dialup. Of course, it is possible for one person to use multiple dialups but I doubt it in this case.
I'd advise not feeding the trolls, people.
Yes, this thread was started by Jim to talk about the Democratic prospects for 2004. Naturally, it would eventually turn towards making fun of the competition - thats just how discussions like these evolve.
Nothing like a good ole message board.
1st->
This is a message board. There are a lot of different people that use this message board. Each person has an opinion. Sometimes you'll agree, sometimes you'll disagree, & sometimes you'll think someone is just a plain idiot.
We have a bunch of good guys in this club. If you are going to join a club because of reading a message board or by the way a website looks, it's probably not right for you. Come find out how much we care about disc golf and what we give back to the people/game before you judge the club by one persons view of politics.
2nd->
I lived in Texas for 3 years. I did not & will not vote for Bush. I do not agree with his education plan. My wife & I are teachers & that affects us the most. The system he has devoloped is flawed. Teachers are rated on students performance on standardized tests & so are school districts. I understand having some kind of evaluation for teachers & districts but basing performance on tests only is bad. It's like saying you are a bad dentist when your kids come from povertry, don't brush their teeth because they either don't have a parent telling them to or don't have the money to buy toothpaste or toothbrush. Oh yeah, & the water your clients use does not have flouride in it because of area they live in. While in the "burb" a dentist gets a perfect evaluation by doing absolutely no work. I saw many kids that passed this test becuause all they did at school was take practice test after practice test every day. They failed every class but they could pass this test. They could not free think & fill out an application correctly. Many good teachers switched professions & moved out of Texas. My wife & I were just a few.
One thing I really enjoyed about Bush was the power dimming every other day. It seemed like there was always a prisoner getting executed. It really frustrates me that prisoners have cable tv & 3 meals a day while so many good citizens do not. What a waste of my money.
Brett,
Thanks for the comments.
I guess my first look "inside" the disc group was tainted by this. it seemed like so many of the frequent contributors held so much hate for the President with little insight on their candidates.
And thanks for the "adult level" political comments based on issues, not hate.
On the No child left behind bill, just make sure you also consider it passed the Senate by a 91-8 margine and House by 384-45 so there was widespread bipartisan support. In fact I understand Kerry, Liberman and Edwards all supported it.
Hopefully the bill will be a first step to improving the country's education system. We spend more per child than any other leading nation yet get students in the middle of the pack in quality. I believe a lot of the problem is complacent parents that don't help, some administrators that don't do their job, and some may be (not present company) ineffective or poorly trained teachers. I believe most US employees are evaluated both objectivly and subjectivly today by their employers. Teachers should somehow be accountable too. If the test method is wrong it is probably the responsibility of parents, teachers and administrators to provide good feedback to the goverment to improve the method.
A fed Troll
i always vote
my preceint captain would be knocking at the door
wondering if i was sick if the wife and i didnt vote
i know im getting old when politics is discussed
at the bar with the boys and now on the board
i work in an industry where views are broad and voiced
openly
the trading floor is a great place to work
so far the discussion here would barely register on the who cares level imho
im a chicago democrat daley rules !!!
chicago politics is its own animal --- no one is going control what king richard does
(still think meigs field would be a great disc golf course)
on the Illinois level all these govenors are crooked (third party last year not a big rob fan ) and i even voted for G RYAN (rep) and he's a child killer (lets not go there but i will offend )
nationally the problem is that there is no FOCUS
it's "what the flavor of the month for these guys "
iraq is a mess (this one soldier killed at a time is bullshit)
9/11
bad economy
rising health costs
no jobs
bad accounting practices
locusts, floods, pestilence
all this would have happened no matter who was president
i've always been of the mindset that
money talks bullshit walks
if gore carries his home state he wins
this nation needed a court to elect a president
fence straddlers we are
the markets were already muddled before the election
9/11 just helped the market to where it should have been
amazon just posted a profit for the first time
wasnt that trading like 400 ????
now what ???
i will most likely vote for who i want to vote for (twice like every good chicago resident should)
"The UN does not work"
How can the UN work when Bush sidesteps international guidelines and ignores the pleas of other democratic nations and the UN itself? 'Bush has single-handedly discredited the UN and set its progress back no less than 20 years
"Being easy on criminals does not work"
It was under republican leadership and a republican judge that gave a second-time offender only 14 days in jail in Waukegan for selling marijuana to a 13-year-old kid - on school property during school hours.
"Frighten seniors"
Bush's plan of overhauling Social Security and the republican twisting of Medicare scares the hell out of me, not just seniors. In the same vein, Social Security just informed me that they expect me to work until age 72, at which point they predict that I will be entitled to $420 a month. That MIGHT pay for one prescription by then.
"Undermine our military"
Similarly, only a repubican administration can announce that $35,000 a year combined income for a family of 4 is considered the "working poor", yet fail to provide new jobs (except of course the lucrative Army reservists) - oh yeah, 6,000 families of reservists just applied to the gov for emergency financial assistance due to loss of wages from the private sector. So Bush has asked us to fight, to die, and, if we survive, to die of starvation in out old age.
"Socialize medicine does not work"
Oh yeah, ask Sweden or New Zealand!!!
Have a nice day......
Socialism works great in family structures. Like, in my family, I earn all the money, Diana does all the work, and Kelsey and Kira live off the fat of the land! You would think that Kelsey and Kira were the socialist party bosses. Moreover, no one complains about it because we are all in it together. I think socialism can work in small homogenous groups where it is like one big Swedish or Aussie extended family. In your average disc golf club three or four people do 90% of the income producing work for the club, 20 or 30 club members and participants benefit, and everyone is happy most of the time. In a large, diverse, and impersonal culture like our nation or even your suburb, most people need to look to themselves for most of their needs. I don't mind that 75% of my paycheck goes to support my wife and kids, but I don't want to support my neighbor's wife and kids too. If you want socialized medicine, get a job with a socialized employer like GM, or AllState, or Baxter, that has good medical benefits, a pension plan and everything else that cradle to grave socialism offers. If you don't like corporate socialism where your entire life is owned by the corporation that pays for your health care, pension, company car, etc., why do you think it is going to be any better if your entire life is owned by the Federal government providing you with those things? When I was working for the state in 1984 we had a state-managed health care plan that was terrible. Diana had been seeing a specialist for automobile accident injuries who she could not see on the state plan because he was not on the approved list. No one on their approved list specialized in what he was state certified to do because one arm of the state bureaucracy did not recognize a need for what another arm of the bureaucracy was licensing him to do. With brains like that its no wonder that government employees need such thick pads on their chairs.
"Jim" obviously likes to hear himself talk, but seems on target.
You all conservatives need to lighten up.
Furthermore it is a well known fact in Sweden and New Zealand that Swedes and Aussies are a higher order of human being than US citizens generally. They don't shoot each other with guns as much, use as many judgment impairing substances, eat as much dietary poison or as much of any of the crazy stuff that US citizens do every day. Socialism might work for higher order human beings like Aussies, Swedes and Captain Picard's crew, but ape-men like us need simple capitalim: My food; my rock; touch my food; meet my rock!
[That "guest" was Bruce Brakel, by the way. I forgot to log in.]
New Zealand:Kiwis
Australia:Aussies
My apologies to any Kiwis who might be reading.
as long as i'm being a dork, and because NOBODY is talking about the superbowl, did you hear justin timberlake's excuse for ripping off janet jackson's tear-away breastcovering? "Waredrobe malfunction" display.
I guess WMD were finally uncovered....
hahahahahahahaha
Quoteas long as i'm being a dork, and because NOBODY is talking about the superbowl, did you hear justin timberlake's excuse for ripping off janet jackson's tear-away breastcovering? "Waredrobe malfunction" display.
I guess WMD were finally uncovered....
hahahahahahahaha
My favorite so far today is MTV's website, where they 'apologize' for the 'incident'...
right below a picture of Barfmey in her latest sortof-SaranWrap outfit, and right next to an opportunity to 'Blast a Fart e-card'.....
I didn't see the conclusion of the routine; as usual I ignored most of the halftime spectacle (it's all I can do to sit through the game most years) but glanced at the TV on my way out of the house to walk the dog. About that time the pseudo-lap dance was starting and I thought, 'what's next, is he taking her clothes off?'...
But I missed it as well as the streaker. god bless america.
I can post a picture, if you wanna see.
Sweet, I want to see Janet's boobie again :D .
Ask, and ye shall receive!
she needs some more surgery.......
does anyone else think this might be a ploy to distract the public away from jacko's wackiness?
I think its just her own Jackson wackiness coming out. That, and maybe a career revival tactic?
The Drudge report was where I got the picture for my avatar (thanks Bruce).
Drudge Report (http://drudgereport.com)www.drudgereport.com
ok, maybe IN FAIRNESS we should rename this thread
"Bashing of all politicians abnd celebrities here"
:P
Quote"I am sorry that anyone was offended by the wardrobe malfunction during the halftime performance of the Super Bowl," Timberlake said in a statement. "It was not intentional and is regrettable."
What a crock. :rolleyes:
QuoteQuote"I am sorry that anyone was offended by the wardrobe malfunction during the halftime performance of the Super Bowl," Timberlake said in a statement. "It was not intentional and is regrettable."
What a crock. :rolleyes:
As I've put in my signature...You don't get dressed up unless you're going out!
Its not even a pastie! Its being held on by a nipple stud! :o
You go girl!
Jim,
I need to amend my comment on the UN. The UN does have one accomplishment. It does do a relatively good job of distributing food and aid (to a large extent paid for by US taxpayers) to poor areas of the world. When it comes to intervening in genocide, nuclear proliferation and world peace they are a dismal failure. This is not my Bush era observance or even Clinton era observance. How many millions of people have ruthless dictators slaughtered as the UN watched?
Please carefully read and understand the Bush Social Security proposal. Unfortunately the mainstream press primarily reports on the lies of the left and soundbites that totally misrepresent the proposal. Bush wants to allow the option of investing a small percentage of an individual's payments SS in their choice of an investment plan. Today's seniors and those who don't want to participate don't have to. Liberals always talk about allowing "choice" but not when it takes away from their total control of how much and when you get your retirement money.
It takes a lot of research and calculations but I encourage you to try this "what if" calculation. Using the actual amounts that you and your employer has already paid into the FICA and a conservative estimate of future payments up to your retirement date, build a spreadsheet. Using a variety of possible investment growth rates such as CD rates, average stock market growth rates, etc., run a few scenarios of the future value of those investments assuming all dollars could be invested in SS. I did and I was shocked. The value, depending on the growth rate assumption, can be in many hundreds of thousands or well over a million. Why not allow our kids to start building a much more comfortable retirement than SS provides. I know why the liberals don't like the idea. They won't control the seniors.
Job shrinkage and job growth both tend to lag economic changes. The recession of 2000 started in the summer of Clinton's last year. The drop in jobs (aggravated by 9-11) declined during the early Bush years. Fortunately the Bush tax cuts are helping us pull out of the Clinton recession and new jobs will follow. Note that productivity has increased already. Companies resist hiring until they are sure the economy has turned around so production per employee increases. That will be followed by job growth. It is not the government's job to create jobs. Capitalism creates jobs. Government's job is to create an environment to allow the creation of jobs.
The Dems do not have a lock on liberalism. Please share that judge's name so that I too can voice my displeasure with him/her at the next election. I look for that kind of info to zap judges like that. I contend, however, that the percentage of liberalism in Democrat appointed or elected judges are significantly higher. Just look at the rulings coming from liberal meccas like the people's republic of California Vs rulings from a state like Texas. And yes, I considered our past Governor a liberal and would not vote for that guy. What's ironic in your statement is that it is liberal Democrats who believe marijuana be legalized.
Note that I think that Bush is much too liberal and I disagree with a lot of his ideas.
Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
-- Ronald Reagan (1986)
Whats ironic about liberal Dems wanting legalization of soft drugs?
About the SS discussion, any intelligent worker who is not a product of the 50's knows not to trust their retirement to Social Security alone. I divert a portion of each paycheck to an IRA. Why should I want the government to try to replicate that for me? I don't like the idea because the Federal government should be making safe, moderate interest bearing investments with my FICA dollars and not chancing it in the markets.
Quote...Please carefully read and understand the Bush Social Security proposal. Unfortunately the mainstream press primarily reports on the lies of the left and soundbites that totally misrepresent the proposal. Bush wants to allow the option of investing a small percentage of an individual's payments SS in their choice of an investment plan. Today's seniors and those who don't want to participate don't have to. Liberals always talk about allowing "choice" but not when it takes away from their total control of how much and when you get your retirement money...
There is a common misconception that Social Security is a retirement plan. It is not. A small benefit of the Social Security system is as a retirement supplement. Much of the Social Security money that is taken out of our paychecks and that our employers also contribute to, goes toward other benefits. One of those benefits is for surviving spouses and children. No one should think of the Social Security system as a retirement plan. It was never designed or intended to be such.
NEW GUY did not directly answer any of my questions or claims. How common.
9-11 did not cause a loss of jobs. That tragedy CREATED JOBS!!! Thousands of data security, personal security, etc., were created instantly. Oh, and you probably still believe Bush didn't plan that terrible attack. Spin spin spin.
I admit that I am much too ignorant to predict stocks and futures, and I believe most of people who make a living at it are more ignorant than I am. I'll have my accountant do your spreadsheet. Then I'll give it to my kids. When they're 40, they can check the math and get a great deal of comfort from your fuzzy math as they slowly die impoverished in the nuclear fallout Republicans will undoubtedly bring upon us all.
Sigh. Lets look at Bush's resume so far:
Fewer job opportunities.
An insurmountable deficit (which can be wiped out in 2 years by taxing republicans who make over 500,000).
Higher cost for imported goods without taxing exporters proportionately.
Higher property taxes.
Higher cost of living.
Screwed up Medicare.
Screwed up Medicaid.
The Patriot Act.
More Americans dying by the day (because he won't allow the UN to do its job)
Guantanimo Bay:
What about the 700 CIVILIANS IMPRISONED on Guantanamo Bay, living in cages, being denied the most basic HUMAN RIGHTS - WITHOUT BEING CHARGED ANY CRIME AT ALL!!! They are simply being "questioned". They have no access to lawyers, family, or toilets. Bush said that this was necessary in the fight against terrorism. Rumsfeld defiantly stated that these "criminals" need to be detained. AGAIN - THEY ARE NOT CHARGED WITH ANY CRIME. Some are from Afganistan, Iran, Iraq, Qatar, and even Kuwait. Many are juveniles.
So, stop hiding behind your conservative flag and shellgame-arithmetic, and take a look at those people who make LESS than 35,000 a year - you won't find them - because they are the ones overseas fighting to control Bush's oil. And their relatives at home need to beg the govt for money just to make the rent. THAT IS NOT THE TYPE OF COUNTRY I WANT MY KIDS TO LIVE IN. If I could, I'd be gone yesterday.
And yes, I know I ramble, but at least I'm fun to read.....
Christ Jim, you get rabies overnight?!
Quote...9-11 did not cause a loss of jobs. That tragedy CREATED JOBS!!! Thousands of data security, personal security, etc., were created instantly...
And yes, I know I ramble, but at least I'm fun to read.....
One third of the people at our "big sister" company lost their jobs as a direct result of 9/11 and we lost a few. Now our company is being sold as a direct result of 9/11 and probably a lot more will lose their jobs.
A "fun" read? Maybe not. Entertaining, sure! ;)
(RE: NEW GUY did not directly answer any of my questions or claims. How common.)
Sorry I though I did.
(RE:9-11 did not cause a loss of jobs. That tragedy CREATED JOBS!!! Thousands of data security, personal security, etc., were created instantly. )
I guess the airline, limo, taxi, hotel, travel agent, theme park, restaurant, sky cap, and car rental people in just the travel industry that no longer had customers and jobs don't count.
(RE: Oh, and you probably still believe Bush didn't plan that terrible attack. Spin spin spin.)
OK, now I realize you putting me on. Although I too heard that from the aliens the last time I was abducted.
(RE: I admit that I am much too ignorant to predict stocks and futures, and I believe most of people who make a living at it are more ignorant than I am. I'll have my accountant do your spreadsheet. Then I'll give it to my kids. When they're 40, they can check the math and get a great deal of comfort from your fuzzy math as they slowly die impoverished in the nuclear fallout Republicans will undoubtedly bring upon us all.)
Seriously, run the math. The stock market does have ups and downs but over 40-45 years the average is a good. If, like liberals say it's risky investment, ask them what they do. Gore had $½ million in oil stocks. If the market drops for 40 years the country is toast anyway long before then.
(RE: Sigh. Lets look at Bush's resume so far:)
Fewer job opportunities. –
The Clinton recession is over, jobs will be back.
An insurmountable deficit (which can be wiped out in 2 years by taxing republicans who make over 500,000).)
Yes that's a problem. He is spending way too much on entitlement programs like perscription drugs.
Higher cost for imported goods without taxing exporters proportionately.
What??
Higher property taxes.
You should file a complaint, I don't get a property tax bill from the Federal Government. My local property taxes do keep going up as teachers and other government workers receive raises.
Higher cost of living.
You might want to check figures. The inflation rate is very low. You may not recall the Democrat Carter double digit inflation.
Screwed up Medicare.
Yes, I agree, each of his budgets has added more dollars to Medicare and now prescription drugs.
Screwed up Medicaid.
I don't think so. It was well screwed up long before Bush.
The Patriot Act.
We don't need to fight domestic terrorism? Liberals hate this but offer NOTHING that would protect Americans.
More Americans dying by the day (because he won't allow the UN to do its job) Just exactly, in detail, do you think the UN would do?
Guantanimo Bay:
There was one proposal that I heard that each of these detainees be released to the recognizance of a Democrat Senator or House member. Each would be responsible for their actions.
And you may want to check your facts. 700 citizens and no toilets? Wow.
Quote
There is a common misconception that Social Security is a retirement plan. It is not. A small benefit of the Social Security system is as a retirement supplement. Much of the Social Security money that is taken out of our paychecks and that our employers also contribute to, goes toward other benefits. One of those benefits is for surviving spouses and children. No one should think of the Social Security system as a retirement plan. It was never designed or intended to be such.
Moreover, it is not as if the money taken out of your paycheck "for social security" is a different color of money or is kept in a different vault from the money taken out of your paycheck for everything else.
The FICA tax is just a federal tax as is the income tax. Every employed American pays an 7.65% flat tax he knows about [FICA] and an 7.65% flat tax he probably does not know about [FICA--Employer contribution]. [The self-employed pay a 15.3% flat tax on the amount of self-employed income they choose to report!] That money is not put in a lock box or saved and invested for your retirement. Since the government has always run a budget deficit, that money is spent before it is received.
Mirth, you betcha! My momma had dem rabies babies!!!
New Guy, you obviously have a fine intellect, so i won't mess with you anymore. You seem to read more than I and know your way around finances.
However, I do believe Bush planned or at least was previously aware of the tragedy of the Twin Towers. And I do believe the human race is decended from aliens. They're still laughing about the Bible...........
The Patriot Act is nothing more than McCarthyism all over again, but this time with King Ashcroft instead of Congressman Nixon. I'm just glad Roy Cohn isn't around!
QuoteThe Patriot Act is nothing more than McCarthyism all over again, but this time with King Ashcroft instead of Congressman Nixon. I'm just glad Roy Cohn isn't around!
I don't think the Patriot Act has risen to the proportions of the height of McCarthyism, but I think the analogy is valid. I had always assumed that much of the Patriot Act is unconstitutional, but since most of the people that have been effected by it are not protected by the constitution, we might not find out in a court of law.
QuoteQuoteThe Patriot Act is nothing more than McCarthyism all over again, but this time with King Ashcroft instead of Congressman Nixon. I'm just glad Roy Cohn isn't around!
I don't think the Patriot Act has risen to the proportions of the height of McCarthyism, but I think the analogy is valid. I had always assumed that much of the Patriot Act is unconstitutional, but since most of the people that have been effected by it are not protected by the constitution, we might not find out in a court of law.
Well, portions of it have been ruled unconstitutional....
I agree that most people have the misconception that Social Security was established to be their personal retirement fund, even if they live off of welfare most of their lives. Too bad.
I was talking with my 77-year-old father last night. He said he felt very used by our nation. First, he's born into the Great Depression. Got his first job at 14 and immediately started paying into SocSec. Then he served in WWII. Then he served during the Korean conflict. Then he worked for the Navy as a civilian for 20+ years. He paid into SocSec for 55 years! The amount he receives each year covers his property taxes, and maybe his cable bill, and not much more. He feels that his generation was used:
-to fight in and help pay for 3 wars (oops, sorry, one War and two "conflicts")
-to build this country up during the 50s and 60s while receiving generally low wages
-as a stepping stone for the Baby Boomers to grow on
-to grow/feed the Medicare monster
-to now support GenX
He feels ripped off that Congress keeps borrowing from Social Security with no intention of renumeration, and he worries about me and his grandkids that we'll be used up more than he was, without anywhere to turn in our old age.
He's right.
The USA screwed MILLIONS of people who have been railroaded in dependency on SocSec and Medicare with no alternatives except private savings. My generation will suffer atrocities far worse before it is over.
Lies! Deception! Greed! Murder! Hey, sounds like just what Whitey did to the Native Americans. And the Africans. And the Chinese immigrant workers in the 1800s. (Who do you think built the railraods - and where did they go? - to dozens of unmarked mass graves from Missouri to Nevada!)
Why does this young white man sound so bitter, you ask?
Because this country was built on the blood and bodies of millions of innocent people - and it is still not enough for some "conservatives". We are a hypocritical, judgmental nation of thieves, and force people of all colors to act unnaturally toward each other. Why? For freedom and peace?
No.
For paper money.
For land.
Because they can.
The history we have taught has been written by Caucasian Christian Europeans.
Liars all!
Jim, our fathers are the same age, and now social security pays them about the same amount. My father isn't bitter. He thinks this country provided him a good chance at a decent life (and this even though he lost a brother to WWII and his father to the depression of The Depression). Do you think that the social security system should be turned into the personal retirement system? If you think that people our fathers' age should be paid more, where should the money come from?
If the poor or lower paid, less educated, and struggling tend to vote Democrat and the higher paid, better educated, comfortable and safe tend to vote Republican; guess which party would tend to use policies that keep people poor or lower paid, less educated and struggling to make ends meet to protect their base? Keep them dependant on goverment and they have to keep voting for you.
Please explain how that makes any sense whatsoever.
My point about SocSec is not that we should depend on it for sole retirement income, but that many people now have to, and that it is insufficient return compared to what is contributed by the average taxpayer.
If Congress borrows against SocSec again, as it has in the past, I doubt my generation's contributions will get a decent return on investment, so to speak.
The rest of my banter is truly heartfelt, even if not presented in a serious manner. So why don't I leave? I will as soon as I can convince my family to flee before we suffer the depressions of another depression.
QuoteIf Congress borrows against SocSec again, as it has in the past, I doubt my generation's contributions will get a decent return on investment, so to speak.
There is no money to "borrow". There is no social security money. Its all just government money. As Bruce pointed out, the government doesn't seperate its money for particular uses. Its just money in, money out. Also, its a tax, not an investment, so you shouldn't expect a "return".
QuoteThe rest of my banter is truly heartfelt, even if not presented in a serious manner. So why don't I leave? I will as soon as I can convince my family to flee before we suffer the depressions of another depression.
I'm glad I don't share your feelings. Although a couple of Brakel brothers did share your type of feelings about 150 years ago and left Germany to come here. I'm glad they did. :D
QuoteSo why don't I leave? I will as soon as I can convince my family to flee before we suffer the depressions of another depression.
So, are you waiting for the mother ship to return? ;)
Ever see "Muppets From Space"?
Well, I love my friends, but I'd be spacedust, baby!
newguy said:
Keep them dependant on goverment and they have to keep voting for you.
Hmmmm, survival of the fatheadedest.
Jim,
That comment about keeping them dependent on govt is my sarcasm about what the Dems do. The Democrats want to keep people poor and dependent on them. That's what gives them the votes and power. When people get successful they don't need the Democrats.
QuoteSo why don't I leave? I will as soon as I can convince my family to flee before we suffer the depressions of another depression
Jim,
Where would you go? This is the greatest nation on the planet. It has the best economy, the best standard of living, the best defense and the best people. Why do you think so many people are trying to get in here, legally or illegally? We all need to keep working to make this country even better.
vegas
Quotevegas
For January-March might make sense.
Viva New Zealand!
"When people get successful they don't need the Democrats."
I guess I understand this assessment, but I guess I just have a problem with the [implied] stereotype of Democrats being limpnoodled, impoverished Socialists. ;)
NewGuy, IF all republicans suddenly vanished and you were forced to vote democrat, whom would receive your endorsement and why?
QuoteNewGuy, IF all republicans suddenly vanished and you were forced to vote democrat, whom would receive your endorsement and why?
Jim,
Excellent question. I guess that gets back to the thread-starting subject.
I'll assume that you are referring to presidential candidates?
Let me first rule out a few:
Sharpton is fun and entertaining but isn't a serious candidate. I watched one Dem debate and he didn't have a clue to one of the major foreign policy issues. (I can't recall it) I actually felt bad for him because he was so clueless. It was like that boy and girl on Leno.
Dean is a total leftist wacko. Enough said.
Kuchinich I have not studied but he doesn't seem to be mainstream anyway.
Edwards I wouldn't trust. If I didn't know better, I would think he is a Clinton clone. He's a smooth talking, smiling personal injury lawyer. He likes to claim that he is a moderate but he's as liberal as they come. He has been a major obstruction in Bush's court nominations.
Kerry is an ineffective version of Ted Kennedy. He's an elite (married to the heir of Heinz fortune) eastern liberal that is detached from America. He speaks only with the tired liberal buzzwords. I understand he has been in the senate for many years but sponsors little and does little. In one speech recently he said "Bush f***ed it up". Not Presidential. But what really gets me thinking. I've known hundreds of WW2, Korean War, and Vietnam vets and none brag about their record and few talk about war. He seems to with every speech. That's odd.
Clark has no experience. A few months ago he had no party affiliation. Suddenly he's a Dem candidate. If you listen to him over time you will see many inconsistencies in statements and beliefs. Rather than being lies I almost think he's confused. Also not a serious consideration for President.
Bottom line, I guess I'd have to go with Leiberman (I guess he dropped out tonight, however.). I don't agree with his liberal ideas but he would be my "lesser of the evils". He has experience and is very smart. With the exception to his compromising of some beliefs when running with Gore, he has integrity, honesty and decency. (How he put up with the sleaze of Clinton, I don't know.) Whoever wins, they will likely be working with a GOP Senate and House and I think of all the candidates, Leiberman would work the best with them.
Jim,
It really is difficult, with any candidate from any party (except for Nader), to tell wha is simply repitition of political buzzwords and heartfelt honesty.
Although Sharpton's answers on domestic issues were right on target, I think Kerry is the only Dem left who can defeat Bush. And yes, he does resemble Uncle Ted, but has fewer "responsibilities" to american big business. But I do not know if he can turn this country around.
Quote...but I guess I just have a problem with the [implied] stereotype of Democrats being limpnoodled, impoverished Socialists. ;)...
I don't know about a stereotype but I know one Democrat who is a noodle-armed whacko socialist! ;)
Saw this in Drudge today. Guantanomo was discussed earlier. Thought it would be of interest:
(It's choppy because I simply cut and paste. I may have missed a country or two while hurrying)
See: http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040204-051623-5923r (http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040204-051623-5923r)
Guantanamo – Total 650 detainees (but new and releases frequently)
UPI has tentatively determined the nationalities of 619 of Camp Delta's inmates from 38 countries
160 from Saudi Arabia
Yemen with 85,
Pakistan with 82,
Jordan with 30
Egypt with 30
Afghans 80
Morocco 18
China 12
Kuwait 12
Tajikistan and Turkey with 11 citizens each
Nine British citizens of Muslim background
Both Tunisia and Russia have eight of their nationals
France and Bahrain both have seven each
Australia (2) and Canada (2.)
two Chechens, two Uzbeks and two Syrians
Bangladesh, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Iraq, Kenya, Libya, Mauritania, Qatar, Spain and Sweden all have a single citizen in Camp Delta.
two Georgian and two Sudanese
yeah, i read that this am in the Chicago SunTimes (but that article said 649 detainees I think)
but it is quite different from numbers & demographics released back in Sept or so.......
I get most of my news from NPR (woo-hoo, more bleeding heart liberal dems! - gotta luv 'em!) and various internet sites with their sources coming from outside the US
Some of my tax dollars go to funding that NPR left wing propaganda machine?
for all you Lord of the Rings fans....
http://flash.bushrecall.org (http://flash.bushrecall.org)
better to NPR than Rupert Murdock :P
Also, is it true that all records of George Jr's tenure as Governor of Texas are sealed and unavailable for public viewing? I thought that info is certainly a matter of public record.
I'm beginning to agree with recalling Bush. He is waaaaaay to liberal. I was hoping for a President that would slash all these entitlement programs.
Aw, c'mon....
He created the largest bureaucracy in the history of this country: the Dept of Homeland Security!
Why, well, because somebody, somewhere, might hate the US and have some sort of weapons - or at least the ingredients for weapons - well, at least the plans to get the ingredients......
He's not liberal! Bush withdrew the US from the World Court of Law because it "was delving into too much detail".
He also removed the US from the UN's Human Rights Commission. I guess that commission allowed too many liberals to live [in poverty].
You two wanna go off & get married somewhere? Jeez, you sound perfect for each other.
We can wed in Waco and honeymoon in Maine.
For my wedding present, I want Kuwait.
Actually, I think you want to wed in Massachusetts....
Not until that constitutional amendment is passed!
Its all about tax-exemtion, I mean, Free Love, baby!
Golly, would I get to drive the VW microbus sometime and wear flowers when at the commune?
Jim, now that you mention the name Waco.... what's your take on the rational of the Democrat administration ordering those women and children to be slaughtered? Then sending a child, who's mother died getting to this country, back to Castro?
Waco was a tragedy, even if it did happen in texas.
As for Cuba, the kid might be better off in the long run. If he lived here, we'd just blow a bunch of tax money on forcing him to take ESL classes.
It will be better when he gets older and receives a working visa, stealing yet another job away from permanent residents.
About all those jobs lost because of 9-11, many of those you listed are in the service industry/field, which is primarily populated by seasonal workers. Seasonal workers are primarily non-resident hispanics. So, as far as I'm concerned, we didn't lose many jobs at all. The 20,000+ people hired into/because of the Dept of Homeland Security aren't complaining.
On another note, I must say that Howard Dean is an embarrassment. During an NPR interview yesterday, he snapped at the interviewer because he couldn't backpeddle fast enough. Any candidate who begs for campaign money more frequently than he talks about issues is lost. The 50,000 he raised from mainly public donations yesterday (website and direct) is money that could have been useful somewhere else.
"A sucker is born every minute." - PT Barnum
"And a child shall lead them." - Jesus Christ
"...and a sucker shall lead them away..." - Scooter
QuoteAbout all those jobs lost because of 9-11, many of those you listed are in the service industry/field, which is primarily populated by seasonal workers. Seasonal workers are primarily non-resident hispanics. So, as far as I'm concerned, we didn't lose many jobs at all. The 20,000+ people hired into/because of the Dept of Homeland Security aren't complaining.
As I said before, the 1/3 of the headquarters staff of our sister company would greatly disagree with your assessment as none of them are seasonal workers. All of them were white collar job types. Same with those who lost their jobs in our company. And they all received 9/11 unemployment benefit extensions.
I recieved the following in an email today. Worth the read:
If senators or U.S. reps. were part of SS, many problems would long
since have been ironed out. I think all newcomers should be on SS, and present
members grandfathered.
GET A BILL STARTED TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOC. SEC.
----------------------------------
SOCIAL SECURITY:
Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years.
Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they
do not collect from it.
You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare
elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves. So,
many years ago they voted in their own
benefit plan.
In more recent years, no congress person has felt the need to change it. After all,
it is a great plan.
For all practical purposes their plan works like this:
When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die.
Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments.
For example, former Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to
draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with
their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.
This is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries.
Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the
rest of their lives.
Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA....ZILCH....
This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the
tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the
General Funds;
"OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK"!
From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, -every
payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer)- we can expect to
get an average of $1,000 per month after retirement.
Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits
for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits!
Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.
That change would be to jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the
Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us
... then sit back and watch how fast they would fix it.
If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe
good changes will evolve.
How many people can YOU send this to?
QuoteI'm not sure what Bruce means re: Kerry's personal details, but I imagine the so-called 'liberal media' will ferret them out;
Anybody watching the headlines? Kerry has a mistress he sent to Africa hoping that if the press got wind of it, at least they could not find her and put her on the cover of Time magazine. It's on Drudge.
Wasn't it Grover Cleveland who won by a landslide after news leaked of his mistress whom he sent to Europe?
There are more personal details to come, but I'm sure Joe Lieberman is already kicking himself for quitting early. I doubt Old Joe has anything on the side in a good long time.
QuoteQuoteI'm not sure what Bruce means re: Kerry's personal details, but I imagine the so-called 'liberal media' will ferret them out;
Anybody watching the headlines? Kerry has a mistress he sent to Africa hoping that if the press got wind of it, at least they could not find her and put her on the cover of Time magazine. It's on Drudge.
Wasn't it Grover Cleveland who won by a landslide after news leaked of his mistress whom he sent to Europe?
There are more personal details to come, but I'm sure Joe Lieberman is already kicking himself for quitting early. I doubt Old Joe has anything on the side in a good long time.
one difference between Democrats and Republicans is that a Democrat will only screw one person at a time... B)
adulteration without representation?
http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicu...onestdubya.html (http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/dishonestdubya.html)
man, that bushy can really hork a pretzel!
http://www.kaicurry.com/gwbush/more.html (http://www.kaicurry.com/gwbush/more.html)
check out the links and be very afraid
more stuff:
http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/2003.asp (http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/2003.asp)
Just thought I'd post a politically themed dyed disc in the politically themed thread. I doubt I'll find a buyer for this one. I think there are six conservative disc golfers in the entire country and four of them throw Innova.
I actually ask for and received permission to use that artwork. I'm not suposed to sell the disc, and I have to plug the website. So, if you want the matching t-shirt, check out www.thoseshirts.com
One of those six saw the disc posted either here or at pdga.com. R Magnus might have a new home.
That dye came out very nice. You are getting better. It's not like you have a bunch of plastic you can practice on. :D
Bush eats only the best cole slaw! (I'm still not going to vote for him though) :ph34r:
my buddy is such a kerry fanatic that
i have no choice to vote for W
sorry
Quote
i have no choice to vote for W
oh, yes you do, yes you do :o
*my* political opinion
screw bush
lets just hope the supreme court doesnt have
to decide who 's going be president
if gore carried Tenn (his home state) he would have won the election
the usa would still be where it is today
which is not a good place
america is so wishy washy on every topic
there are at least 100 possible discussions on (eveything)
bush vs gore
bush vs kerry
war record vs no war record
taste great less filling
the trading floor i worked on was heavy republican
im a daley democrat (that means i vote for king richard twice every election)
state elections i tend to vote for the lesser evil
g ryan is a child killer
blajoyavich is a thief like all politicians r
porchard ??
orberweiss ?/
i was planning on voting for Jack Ryan
(who cares that he took his hot wife to ??? clubs ? )
his party now look who is running
keyes
omg
working on a trading floor translates into many
varied discussions on everything from politics to sports
there is no holding back in discussions because most
traders work for themselves and not in the real corporate sense
of work environments ( this means there are usually no
repercussions of what you say how u say it or how loud u say it)
at most work places u just cant yell out bush ****** ****** ******
the floor was a great place to work (imagine high school)
i listen to all opinions, will not force my views on anyone,
but u r NOT going to change my opinion/views/voting habits
i ve found that people who dont work on the trading floor
arent as flexible in their thinking about certain subjects
and are more prone to emotion in their discussions
(thats a reference to my one buddy)
God Bless America !
(it is a great place to live - look at all the disc courses we have)
(oh is using God there politically correct or not - oh well)
in the alan keyes world you have to ask yourself
what kind of disc would Jesus use ?
Quotetaste great less filling
isn't it, "great taste, less filling" ?
;)
QuoteQuotetaste great less filling
isn't it, "great taste, less filling" ?
;)
Actually, it's
Tastes great!!!!!!
Less filling!!!!
One side of the bar is for tastes great, the other is for less filling.
Quotewhat kind of disc would Jesus use ?
probably a beat DX Beast. but i heard he sucked at disc golf.
How do you know it's not
less great, tastes filling
hmm ?
QuoteHow do you know it's not
less great, tastes filling
hmm ?
Because I've seen the commercials. :rolleyes:
Hey man- whole barroom brawls have erupted over the debate of tastes great, less filling.
take that back or ill rip your bikini top off
now that was a good commercial