IOS scope

[Dag]

I've been curious as to why the Illinois Open Series is effectively the Greater Chicago Metro Area Series plus Sinnissippi. Wouldn't it be appropriate to have the series be more inclusive of a greater portion of the state? There are many high quality courses outside the scope of the current IOS that might serve the series better than some of the less challenging courses utilized this season. I'm far from a stellar player (how's that for an optimistic statement?) but I've found that my perception of an enjoyable tournament relates almost directly to the degree of challenge the course utilized offers, the more challenging the course, the more enjoyable the tournament. I'd love to see a series with stops in Peoria, the Quad Cities, Rockford, Springfield, and so forth. There would be a bit more travelling involved but, for me at least, the higher caliber course would offset this.

[pdga#7648]

I totally agree.
I will drive the 3-4 hours(except Sterling, can do that in under 2) cause I enjoy the competition of the players in the Chicago area, and the caliber of players. But all the driving 55 North gets boring weekend after weekend. This year the IOS did have Sterling, and Lemon Lake, but like Channahon tomorrow would be my 3rd time playing a tournament there this year. If we could get a new course here and there, I truely beleive more players would play more than just 1-3 events of a 9 event series.
I would love for one of the IOS TD's to come to Peoria and run an event. Just to compare the quality of event compared to others in the past. Granted I live in Pekin, and would not have to travel but 30 minutes, but I assume some TD's don't have that far of a drive at least 1 of the events.
All in all I really enjoy playing the IOS events, but some other courses would be a very nice change to a great series.

[Brad]

 There are tourney at those courses but they are not IOS events.  If you don't like where they have the tourney don't go.  There are a ton of great tourneys around.

[CEValkyrie]

The #1 reason the IOS events are around the Chicagoland area is all the TD's and volunteers are somewhere in the Chicagoland area. We have occasionally stepped outside the area which have included Sinnissippi, Lemon Lake, and Rockford. We wished we had some of the best courses in the state but that's not the case.

This is a hobby and something we've enjoyed doing. Watching the tournament player base grow over the years has been very cool. Wheter the amateur players in the area understand it or not the series was established for them. Everything was put together to give the best value to an amateur player and 100% cash back to pros. This year we've added more money than ever to the pro side.

It's a lof of work to run an event somewhat close to home. It is very difficult and stressful to run an event far from home. Below are some of the reasons it's difficult to run an event far from home.
1. Park Permit/Contacts. Going thru the official process of getting an event approved can be a big pain. It varies at each park district but the time can be frustrating. Your patience can be tested trying to explain what you are doing.
2. Expenses. Traveling and finding a place to stay Friday and Saturday night is expensive. Getting back late Sunday night and going to work on Monday sucks! There are a lot of players that don't understand how many hours we put in during that weekend. 7am to 7pm each day. It's amazing how tired you are after those days.
3. Player base. We have not always been welcomed by the local player base. That becomes stressful. There are other areas in Illinois where there is no gurantee that players will come out. I'd hate to drive 3 hours to run an event for the weekend and 50 people show up. That sucks!
4. Course info. We have tried to be very specific with course information. Getting accurate maps, hole distances, and out of bounds information is very difficult.


I do agree and would like to bring more sanctioned events to the Peoria and Bloomington/Normal area. Having 1 sanctioned event between all those courses is a bummer.

[pdga#7648]

yes Brett, the fact that the Peoria Open is the only sanctioned events does blow. They have had tournys at Canton, ICC, Morton Pumpkin Fest, all unsanctioned. Really no reason to play an event that isn't sanctioned in my eyes.


Like I said, I will drive to play in the IOS, just would be sweet to play a variety of diff courses, not the same event every year.
Just kind of a bummer the Peoria area is more worried about the league play all year long, rather than drawing quality players to quality courses for sanctioned events.

[stpitner]

Because of the concentrated area that the IOS series covers, Brett did try doing an Illinois Tour (last year I think?)  It was designed to highlight the best events for the year, and I think only 2 of the IOS tournies were in that list.  All of the disc golfers in Illinois are not organized enough to make that tour more publicized, and outside the local player base, you're probably going to have no more than 10 people that make the extra distance travel just because disc golf is still considered an inexpensive sport.

Another problem that I'd love to work around is how terratorial places can be (and I'm NOT speaking of anyone in particular, I'm just saying it's out there).  That's why it's important for the local club to speak up and try to run something.  If anybody saw my ad that was with the USADGC (http://www.youtube.com/user/DiscGolfLive#p/a/u/0/PJ5emkmXfcM) you'll see that I advertise a mobile inventory and will help run your tournament so that you don't have to worry about coming up with the thousands of dollars of money spent on merch before the event even happens.  However, I haven't had any callbacks on that yet.  I'd love to work with folks out at Peoria, Rockford, B/N, Centralia, and wherever else there are awesome courses in Illinois.  Working together to pull together these events is what really needs to happen, and that takes a lot of coordination!  I think it would even be cool to work with the local club that may already have some merch and make it a REAL fly mart.  The GPO that I merched with the PFC in 2009 was one crazy awesome supply of discs.  There was probably 3500 discs there as well as all sorts of other stuff!

Now I've said all of this, but before ANY of this can happen, we need more support on the RUNNING of bigger tournaments.  The typical helpers that I bring in can't always make it to all of the tournaments, and if they are going to be more widespread out in Illinois, then that's just that much more that I have to ask of them.  That's where the local player base REALLY needs to help out.  Hopefully as time continues on the sport will continue to grow and grow, and we'll get more than a fair share of new players and helpers.

[smyith]

If you want a broader scope of the IOS tournaments then become a TD and staring running some quality events and bring a tournament down there.
unsanctioned tournaments have a great place in the disc golf world. people who want to get into tournaments but arnt PDGA members have a chance to play without a ridiculous $10 fee. I have several friends who want to play but refuse to pay the fee until they know if they would be into it. I remember when I first started there were alot of unsanctioned tourneys around and I only played those until I finally decided to get fully into the competitive disc.

[Bruce Brakel]

I think Brett covered the reasons for not taking the IOS show on long road trips.  Attendance, local participation, local leadership and course issues lead the way.  When you take the long road trip you never know if the locals are going to welcome you, boycott you or slash your tires. 

This was my perception of the first several tournaments we attempted outside NE Illinois:

Location ---Parks Management ----- Local leaders ----- Local Players

Parkside --high maintenance & $$ --- Welcoming -------- Good participation

Rockford ----- welcoming ------- attempted sabotage --- boycotted, but we had good attendance from Chicago and QC

Peoria --------- no problems ------ very welcoming -------- boycotted

Aurora ------- no problems ------- very welcoming -------- great participation

Sinnissippee - no problems ------ very welcoming -------- great participation

So, the IOS has gone back to foreign venues where it has worked out o.k. in the end, but has lost interest in the tournaments that the park district or players did not support.  There is always a big financial risk in running any tournament, especially for the merch man who might spend $2000 to $5000 in advance.   

I'm pretty sure that Jon and Brett would be willing to work with QC or Springfield if the locals wanted to host an IOS to IOS standards.  I'm pretty sure Jon and Brett and Scott would be stepping on toes and not welcome to bring the show there otherwise. 

[smyith]

Rockford ----- welcoming ------- attempted sabotage --- boycotted, but we had good attendance from Chicago and QC

Peoria --------- no problems ------ very welcoming -------- boycotted

this is really really sad. i hate this kind of crap.

[dana]

Ha!!!  I'd hardly say that the local Peoria players boycotted the IOS Peoria Open.  There are hardly any tournament players in Peoria.

[Bruce Brakel]

Dana could be right about that. 

My impression was that they were getting 30 to 40 players at their unsanctioned tournaments, and this was before the imposition of the $10 non-member fee. 

When no locals show up for the only sanctioned tournament in their town for the entire year, it feels like a boycott. 

[CEValkyrie]

unsanctioned tournaments have a great place in the disc golf world. people who want to get into tournaments but arnt PDGA members have a chance to play without a ridiculous $10 fee. I have several friends who want to play but refuse to pay the fee until they know if they would be into it. I remember when I first started there were alot of unsanctioned tourneys around and I only played those until I finally decided to get fully into the competitive disc.

I agree non santioned tournaments have their place but they definitely don't draw like PDGA events. There are just as many non sanctioned events in Illinois as there are sanctioned.

I don't think the $10 fee is ridiculous. I pay $75 a year for a membership. Any non PDGA member playing a sanctioned event is getting a $65 rebate. If they are an amateur they are getting a $40 rebate. That is a great deal!

[Jwt4412]

I find this whole concept very interesting...  I would love if SPI had a date on the IOS calendar - not sure what would have to change for a Lincoln Park Tourney to meet the expectations of the "IOS Standards", but we have been trying to get Chicagoland Players to come down and see and play these courses for years. 

Our weather breaks before yours and we started a spring tourney at the suggestion from Brett for that very reason...  The Mother Lode was born from that suggestion...  Early spring 2-day tourney with in driving distance of Chicagoland, Quad Cities, St. Louis, Peoria, Indy and Bloomington...

[smyith]

you guys should do IOS #10. Whats the weather like come early november down there?

I would think a late fall or middle summer placed IOS would draw the most people. The early spring tournament is only going to draw the more hard core discers who played in the winter and are ready to go the second snow melts. a late fall would probably catch your points grabbers and those that just dont want the season to end (assuming you guys stay warmer longer...i know SIU does). a middle of summer IOS would overall be best. The most amount of people have free time (i.e. college and high school players) but theres also many more tournaments to compete with. as a player i would prefer you do it in late fall.

What could be really awesome is have 12! IOS's a year, 1 each month. November thru February are in the southern part of the state and as the weather get warmer it moves north and colder it moves south. Also, it would be really awesome if they only showcased our best courses. essentially the local clubs run the tournament (and allow for others to help them improve their "qualitity" <struggling to find the right word>)

i am curious myself what the" IOS Standards" are...

[CEValkyrie]

i am curious myself what the" IOS Standards" are...

That is a good question.

It's the entire package. I'll let Mike or Jon explain the numbers. I'm sure more of the IOS Team will contribute what I missed.

The IOS team is going to provide a well run event and VALUE. You are going to get people who understand running events. The team has listed things we like and dislike about the hundreds of events we've played and run. We run events using things we like as players. Rules are going to be followed, results are going to up in a timely manner, and TD reports are going to be turned in on time. We try to stick to the schedule and keep things moving. We understand people have lives outside of disc golf and want to get you on the road as early as possible.

Funny Money--> You can spend it or save it during the year. Want a larger item? Save it and spend it later in the year.

Amateur Player Pack-> You are going to get $15.00 funny money to buy whatever you want. We got tired of getting crappy player packs with unrealistic values. We were sick of getting a t-shirt, sticker, and mini valued at $15.00 or getting stuck with some disc that we don't throw.

Amateur 2nd round CTP's or Hot round--> For every player in an amateur division $3 for every person goes to this. If you have 3 on your card it's $9. 4 on your card it's $12. A 5'some is worth $15. Even if you blow up round one there is something to play for.

Pros-> You are going to be paid back 100% of your money minus PDGA fees. In the right circumstances we've eaten the PDGA fees too. When we find sponsorship we add the cash to the MPO-Open. There has been 4 Pro B-Tiers and 1 A-Tier this year.

Merchandise-> Scott of www.paperorplasticsports.com has one of the biggest tournament selections of any TD i've seen. You have a ton of options to pick from when you are cashing out or using your player pack. He's tired to offer you as many options as possible. If he doesn't have what you want save the funny and make a special order. He'll get what you are looking for.

Competition-> Every division is offered even if you are the only person in your division. You are going to get FAIR competition as the PDGA rules allow with ratings. All non PDGA members who have played a PDGA event in Illinois or the surrounding states have their ratings tracked by the IOS Elves. We've bumped non PDGA members up. I gurantee there are no other TD's in the country doing this.

Amateur Payouts-> Payouts are always well over 110%. It's usually in the 120 to 150% range. Jon and Mike can expand on this.

Trophies-> We have tried to be creative with trophies and find cheap alternatives. Trophies are a TD's worst nightmare and one of the biggest value eaters at events. Trophies are expensive and take away from payouts. We don't believe in expensive trophies.

[pickax]

Am payouts:
Using the way that most people look at Am payouts (player pack + CTPs + prizes divided by total entry fees), IOS events tend to be around the 125% mark. Using the PDGA method for calculating Am value, it often pushes close to the 150% line. (The PDGA method deducts any fees per player in calculating the total entry fees for this calculation). If a TD is only paying 85-100% per PDGA minimum standards, you are not getting a good value.

We also keep the money in the division where it came from. The lower rated Ams are not financing larger prizes for other divisions or the Pros. In the cases where the Pro player fees are eaten by the TD, it's exactly that. The Am payouts are not reduced to cover them.

Personally, as a player, the biggest thing with the IOS is I get a known commodity. I don't have to worry if I am going to get fleeced or if the TD hasn't kept up on the PDGA rules and standards in the last ten years. It will be a well-run event with a good value.

[Bruce Brakel]

Brett did a really good job of covering the important stuff that makes an IOS an IOS.  Some other details we have tried to cover:

All PDGA divisions are offered, no matter how many show up to play.  If only one FPG shows up and she wants to play FPG, no problem.  It is a series with series points, so every TD has to offer all divisions.

A tournament specific scorecard, with all the holes on the card in the order they are played on the course, with reasonably accurate distances, and with the course ground rules printed on the back. 

The players' names are filled out on the scorecard with the starting hole circled.

Extra holes.  Whenever possible, we try to offer two rounds of 20 to 22 holes. 

No floater groups, no sixsomes.  If you have 20 holes you are capped at 100 players. 

Rules disputes are resolved with all of the players of the group present after consulting the rules book. 

No illegal anything.  Basket raffles, bucket games, and door prizes are all fun and illegal in Illinois.  And we've had people call the police and falsely accuse us of doing this stuff.  So we don't do any of that stuff.  All side games are skill based and legal. 

[Jwt4412]

Other than the ISO Elves...  pretty sure we "pass" as is, but if the IOS crew wants to set up shop for an event in SPI - no local is going to chase you away...