4th DISContinuum Blast!

[mirth]

The chain upgrades have been removed & are earmarked for Fairfield. See the Bevier thread for that one....

Brett has your basket & will be hanging onto it until the Widdershins. I'll make arrangements to get it back to you afterwards.

[Jon Brakel]

A much deserved round of applause for the gentlemen who brought us the DISContinuum Blast this year. Also, an apology for not being able to make it on Sunday. I would have like to help out but I just wasn't able to get down there.

As for the event, I thought things ran very smoothly. As much as I would have liked to play a little better on a course I play frequently, I'll settle with my fourth place finish in the White Division. I paid $27 as an entry fee. I cashed $32 and received $15 in a CTP. I nearly doubled my entry in prizes (if not for the only bogey of my round on the last "little" hole I would have done better).

I do have a couple of recommendations:
1. Bruce: More Innova discs, please  
2. Cut some of the chains in a few of the baskets and take them over to Fairfield and install them there

I really enjoyed the whole ratings event thing. It gave me a chance to see how I really match up with others with similar ratings. It's a good opportunity to see where you're at with your game/skill. I also know now that if I want to beat a 16 year old I need to start playing a little more (Todd F. beat me by a few strokes).

Mirth: do you have my basket? Just want to make sure it's around for you to have for the Widdershins. Won't be able to be there....I have wedding that day.

Serge,

Thanks for playing and thank you for your feedback.

As to #1, Bruce can answer this better. I know it is a challenge to get everything that someone may want because there are so many kinds of discs out there. Throughout the year Bruce has been taking orders at our events when he didn't have something that someone wanted so that he'd have it at the next event.

#2 has been completed. Thankyou Adrian Sr. for taking care of that! Brett and I will need to schedule some time to test some chain configurations for adding chains at Fairfield.

[SERG]

The chain upgrades have been removed & are earmarked for Fairfield. See the Bevier thread for that one....

Brett has your basket & will be hanging onto it until the Widdershins. I'll make arrangements to get it back to you afterwards.

Thanks.

I findly got around to rearranging my apartment. There's a nice open space for the basket when it makes it's way back home. Don't think the girlfriend would approve...but she moved to Madison    

[Guest]

Jon, I believe that, when dealing with Junior divisions, a balance needs to happen between (A) offering a low-price way to start playing competitively and (B) covering payouts and players packages.  This will probably differ from tier to tier.

I also believe that Juniors 16 and under should get a players package for R-Tier, D-Tier, and C-Tier events at the least. Not only do we want them to have a good time and walk away with something, but we want them to keep coming back. A well-run tourney should be enough, but I believe in overkill (could you have guessed that?).  I also think everyone should get awesome players packages for all Major events.

Thr trophy-only option should be made available more for Juniors and Recs and Women.  The more I think about trophies, the more I think they can have a place in the world of organized disc golf.

I'm glad to see new attempts being made at events here in IL.  But, again, I think a more balanced offering of sanctioned, nonsanctioned, and casual (but organized) events and leagues would serve the entire (all ages and skill levels) disc playing community a little better.  DISContinuum does a lot, no doubt, but the younger kids have no reason to play.  I'd like to see a 7-10 year old division for $5 with Players Package!  :-)

Regarding the Danny thing this Saturday, I'lll have to talk to him and get his story straight.  When I spoke to him, he was very upset about the cost (even though I gave him $ to play). However, I also spoke to several (5 or 6) casual players throughout last week at Bevier; they told me they would not be at the Blast because the cost was prohibitive.  They were also confused about ratings/division breakdowns for the event.  They did not like the $5 PDGA softcard deal either.  I told them to check out the Widdershins.

My original post on the Blast thread pinpointed the only REAL issue I had:
Non-PDGA Junior Player: $27
Non-PDGA Rec Player: $32
Pro Open PDGA Player: $33

This really is disproportionate, even if officially suggested by the PDGA.
My suggestions (you asked for 'em):
-Lower entry fees for lower ratings/divisions and raise the fees for Pros. No change in payouts.
-Players package 100% paid for by sponsor(s).
-Equal number of non-sanctioned and sanctioned events so as to include more casual/rec players (that was the type of alienation I spoke of earlier).


(the only edit done by Mirth was to turn off Emoticons for this post only....)

[CEValkyrie]

Jim,
    I'm just exlpaining trying to have a civil conversation.


    One of the reasons we added another PDGA Event this year is because only 7 of the 43 DISContinuum members are not PDGA members. So this year DISContinuum ran 2 sanctioned & has 1 non sanctioned am only event coming up on Oct 30th.  

[Guest]

Me too, Brett.  What was wrong with that post?

I did not know only 7 were not members.
You know me by now, always looking out for those casual players......

[mirth]

I think in 2005 we might be having another nonsanctioned event in the spring, which we would have run in 2004 if certain events hadn't happened.

Water under the bridge, guys. Yes, we need to cater to our members but at the same time we shouldn't lose sight of the goal of bringing new players to the sport and educating them on proper play.

[Guest]

Yep, Mirth, that's one of the things I was trying to say.

[Jon Brakel]

My suggestions (you asked for 'em):
-Lower entry fees for lower ratings/divisions and raise the fees for Pros. No change in payouts.
-Players package 100% paid for by sponsor(s).
-Equal number of non-sanctioned and sanctioned events so as to include more casual/rec players (that was the type of alienation I spoke of earlier).

I really appreciate those suggestions. I think we are pretty close in how we think the pricing structure should be. My tweek on this is to remove the payout from Jr. and Rec divisions so that it no longer has the "gambling" aspect. The "payout" would be in the form of a player pack for everyone in the divsion plus trophies for the top 3 or so. I think this would encourage new players to play Rec and junior divisions even if they didn't have a chance to win plus it will encourage experienced rec and junior players to move up when they want a more competitive tournament experience.

I'm not going to hold my breath while we look for player's pack sponsors, but it might be feasible in the future to have the junior player's packs sponsored or at least mostly sponsored. DISContinuum has never had a 100% sponsored players pack, but if someone has a lead on one please let Brett know.

The plan that I submitted to the Discontinuum board was for a non-sanctioned Blast (I was not on the Board at the time, I was a member of the Ops committee). At the time the Board wanted another sanctioned tournament and went with another plan. I agree that a balance between sanctioned and non-sanctioned tournaments is a plus. Although we might differ on the reason. I like to be able to have the freedom to run different kinds of formats and what not that might not be within the guidelines of a PDGA event.

My plan now is to revive the HPC Memorial in a fun non-sanctioned tournament for 2005.

I like to hear your input Jim, but I think we'd all be more receptive to the way that you posted in this last post than in some of your previous ones.

Thanks,

Jon

[Bruce Brakel]

The way I usually deal with juniors, and I think we did this for all the IOS events since I was doing Saturday payouts, is that everyone wins something all the way to last place.  I'm looking for confirmation of this but I can't find my copy of the TD reports.  

If we did IOS #2 this way, for their $23 entry fee, every junior would have received a $15 player pack for which we only took $10 out of the payout.  That would have left 5 players X $13 for the payout which would have gone 17, 15, 13, 11, 9.  Since there were five of them, we might have done a junior-only CTP also.  I'm fairly certain we did it that way.  Maybe Jon can confirm.  I thought the IOS Series worked fine for juniors, but my juniors chose to play in womens' divisions.

That $23 IOS Junior entry fee is right off the PDGA recommended schedule for a B-tier.  $20 + the $3 PDGA player fee.

I am open to the idea of running the junior divisions as player-pack and no-payout.  For $15 we could afford to do a $15 player pack, a trophy-item for first, pro rata pdga sanctioning, insurance and $3 fees.  I am also open to running a division below men's recreational for rec players who have never won anything.  You can pretty much X-tier anything you can fit on an Excel preformatted PDGA TD report, and I know how to put in a lower division for Recs who really ought not be in the same division as Jon and the Shorts.

For 2004 we were trying to introduce players to the concept of PDGA sanctioned events being run according to PDGA standards, since no one else in the region really does that.  For a B-tier that meant doing player packs.  For an RC-tier it meant not having junior, master or women's divisions, but placing those players in their rating indicated division.

I think a lot of non-members were confused by the R-tier format, although it was clearly explained on the flyer and the website.  Based on my experience at two R-tiers, and from talking to other R-tier TDs in Minnesota and elsewhere, the R-tier works best if the players don't know it is an R-tier until they get there!  That worked great in Ann Arbor.  Educating the players in advance just seems to keep the juniors, women, masters and non-members at home.  We had close to zero non-members on Sunday.  The red/rec non-members on Saturday mostly showed up clueless that it was an R-tier and maybe half went home with prizes still clueless.  I would not be surprised if one of the trophy-disc winners is chuckling right now because we mispelled Rec on the trophy disc:  it says "Red"!  

Obviously the R-tier format will not work well for juniors if they want to play as juniors against other juniors.  That is also true for pretty much everyone in the field except for Intermediate [Bronze] men and Open pro men.  In virtually every other R-tier division you get pros competing against similarly rated ams, women competing against similarly rated men, and old guys competing against similarly rated young people.  But, the R-tier is cool for what it is, an opportunity for everyone to play against everyone else who is close to their skill level.  It may be too egalitarian for our culture.  At both of the R-tiiers I played this year I enjoyed the slightly better and more varied competition found in Silver versus Advanced.  

[Dan Michler]

Hey Dan, have I ever attacked you? Have I ever been anything but pleasant and helpful when you first started playing Bevier? And about Wildwood: I worked my ass off to get a course in the ground. It may have gone awry, but there are still 7 baskets in the ground and kids playing every day. How is that bad? How much have you done to promote local courses? Sure you play, but then what? Please stop your immature rants of pure and unbased hatred and go clean up a course.

i barely know u dude and i don't respond seriously to people who make immature rants of pure and unbased hatred like this

Brett, yes, I called you a crybaby and I want you to show up.
Not for me, you idiot. For Twin Lakes Disc Golf Course and the commitment DISContinuum made

brett is my friend and I like spending time with and helping out the Brakel family and all i know is you have gone out of your way to be an ass to these people over the last several months.  so i guess attacking these people makes me feel defensive.  i don't really care what u think of me, i'm not even exactly sure what u look like.  i spend alot of my free time playing disc golf every day in this area, which would explain why i don't ever see u.

[mirth]

just fixing your bbcode Dan...

[Guest]

There will always be a challenge to dg organizers who plan events for Juniors and Recs. Although I rarely agree with you Bruce, you are quite active with the kids.
Keeping new, fresh ideas popping is so important.
 
I understand how you might feel, Dan, but you weren't involved when the Board was struggling earlier this year and my posts were not directed in any way toward you.  You say don't even remember me, and you still launched a ferocious personal attack.  That says a lot about you.  You even went way back to an old argument to drag up old garbage.  Not your business, and not appreciated.  

[Dan Michler]

thats why they call me danimal.  i'm one ferocious mother trucker.

[Brian]

Not that I am a member of the club, but has there been any talk of a bring your own doubles tourny?  

[D]

I like that idea Brian.

Bring your own partner would be a cool event

[mirth]

Not that I am a member of the club, but has there been any talk of a bring your own doubles tourny?

Thats alright Brian, input from everyone is welcome.

Last winter we ran our incarnation of the Ice Bowl as a 'special' best shot league day. The winter before that our first Ice Bowl was random draw upper/lower all day partners.

Maybe our Ice Bowl in 2005 could use the BYOP format...  

[Dan Michler]

I have heard talk about having a doubles tourney.  It would be cool if one leg of the 2005 IOS could be a doubles.  It would be interesting to see what the turnout would be for that.

[tree]

I think doubles of some form is was brought up for IOS 2005. It is all in the talking stages, I think  

[Bruce Brakel]

I have heard talk about having a doubles tourney.  It would be cool if one leg of the 2005 IOS could be a doubles.  It would be interesting to see what the turnout would be for that.

Speaking of the Blast, [this is the Blast thread right?] Brett's draft TD report is showing 151% payout for the Saturday players.  Wow.  I think we hit a higher number because we did not buy the PDGA insurance or spend extra for B-tier sanctioning, and gave that savings back to the players.  

I decided my Silver 2nd trophy was throwing plastic.  I birdied #4 and #6 with it today at league.