Aurora

[Fox Metro Discer]

After the Ice Bowl, we are going to be placing some 4-5 foot poles in the ground until the park district puts in the alternates so we can get a feel for them and possible tweek them a bit if necessary.

[distantdg]

At leagues on the days were at jericho, I'm going to try to play at least 2 of the alternates to get some feedback on them.

[can't putt]

I played Jericho Lake this morning and took a look at the new pin placements.  First off, kudos to you guys for making the effort.  Also, Jericho Lake is so tight that I think it's pretty tough to come up with decent alternates without interfering with other fairways and tees.  That said, I have a few comments.  Bear in mind that my comments are intentionally critical -- I'm trying to offer useful feedback and not just "attaboys":

I have two major concerns.  The first is that too many of the alternates become similar righty-hyzer shots.  Holes 4, 5, and 6 all become the same throw with the same fade and the hole in the same location tight to the woods near the edge of the creek.  8 becomes the same thing but longer.  The second concern is that many of the alternates really don't change the hole much at all.  9, 11, 12, 13 are all pretty much the same shot as now, just slightly longer.

I know you had more than one alternate flagged for some of the holes.  Did I see a flag on the other side of the tree line left of the fairway on hole 9?  I think that might be a good one.  I also liked the added length on hole 7.  Hole 16 might be good with an alternate in the grassy area directly south of the line of pines on the right side of the fairway.  You also might consider moving alternate 5 up the slope away from the creek and longer rather than towards the creek.

I think the hole 14 alternate is completely unplayable anytime a soccer match is being played -- most evenings and weekends throughout the summer.  I also don't like that you have to walk 300' back down the fairway before you can turn off to get to 15.

Anyway, everyone has their opinion and this is just mine.  I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers.  Thanks!

[distantdg]

Thanks for the input Kurt,

I agree that I don't want a course that is nothing but righty-hyzer shots. The front 9, I think will have to be majority of hyzer to straight shots being we were trying to utilize the creek if it could be used. And since the creek is always on the left of the holes this was our only option. To combat this hyzer dominated course, the back 9 is looking to become a straight and anhyzers shots. Also another way we can rid this problem is a few of the holes will most likely have 2 placements being on that could be on the left or right. We could also not move all the pins to alternates and mix it up to keep a good balance of shots.

Our main focus was looking at the potentials pins from the long tees and try to use the trees and roads to make a difficult but fun hole to play, and award a good, accurate drive. So some of the baskets will maybe move a matter of 10 feet closer to the road for example to add some risk, and some holes were just being made a little longer to possibly break up the birdie frenzy.

We tried to have each hole independent of the next hole to create a good flowing course without having much delays of waiting on some group to finish putting before your can group can drive. We had the majority of members wanted holes in places that look great on paper, but would be a dangerous hole.

Now comments about certain holes...
Hole 14 will most likely not be able to be as long as we want it due to the soccer field and the walk back that you mentioned, so it would probably be moved back 40 feet protected by the pine trees which also brings that back fence into play.

Hole 9 will hopefully be able to have the alternate going left over that little ravine. There is a gap that is already made that is about 3 feet wide and protects the basket very well, allowing only great drives and upshots to get the par.

Hole 18 I think is going to be my favorite alternate. The pin is about 4 feet from the creek about 40 feet longer and allows a risk and reward hole. You can go for the duece my throwing a straight drive at the pin and risking getting a kick in the creek or turning it over into the creek.

Thanks for your input. I appreciate your comments, keep them coming if you can.

[Bruce Brakel]

Ooof.  A righty anhyzer is not the same thing as a lefty hyzer.  A course that is evenly divided between righty anhyzers and righty hyzers is entirely a righty course. 

[stpitner]

Ooof.  A righty anhyzer is not the same thing as a lefty hyzer.  A course that is evenly divided between righty anhyzers and righty hyzers is entirely a righty course. 

amen Bruce lol.

[DougEDawg]

What's the differnce between a righty anhyzer and a lefty hyzer?

[tacimala]

What's the differnce between a righty anhyzer and a lefty hyzer?

The amount of people complaining!   

[stpitner]

it's the same difference between a lefty anhyzer and a righty hyzer.  A righty hyzer all you have to do is throw your disc and it's just going to naturally curve to the left as it slows down (overstable disc of course).  For a lefty anhyzer, you not only have to spin it hard enough to get the disc to turn the opposite way, you run the risk of a couple of things 1) disc turning back over, 2) if you can't get the disc high enough to flatten it out and keep going on the anhyzer route, it will spike into the ground and roll the other way making low, line-drive shots almost impossible, and 3) it's a whole lot harder to get as much distance of an anhyzer throw than a hyzer (my experience anyway).  I know with my experience you need to have a pretty big arc to get the anhyzer to go off with consistency (throwing a stingray or a roadrunner).  The arm angle is all different, we all know that when we throw an anhyzer route.

hopefully that makes sense?

[distantdg]

You have to do the same thing for a righty anhyzer

[stpitner]

which is why a righty anhyzer is not the same as a lefty hyzer.  My description was righty hyzer vs. lefty anhyzer... so as a righty if you throw an anhyzer you know why it's not the same shot.

[can't putt]

I guess what I'm suggesting, Adam, is that it might be better to focus on requiring different lines and different shots then on trying to make the creek and lake come into play on every possible hole.  Just my $.02.

You and I are describing the same location on hole 9, you just did it much better. 

[Fox Metro Discer]

Being a lefty and having played some of these alternates that we have laid out. I disagree. The anhyzer shots for a lefty are not impossible to make. In fact, they are relatively easy. Most of the holes are still under 350' from the pros. A few are a bit longer. My point is, though, we are trying to make the course something that requires you to hit your lines in order to have a look for a deuce shot. And most of the new holes are open enough that a lefty anhyzer can get there. Either that or learn a forehand shot!

[Tafe Hemler]

What's the differnce between a righty anhyzer and a lefty hyzer?

A great example is hole #10 from the longs.  It is a tough lefty/(R)sidearm shot with the trees defining the left side of the fairway interfering most of the time.  But a righty anhyzer gets through the fairway easier and since it wants to flex back left instead of fall right (lefty/R-sidearm) it tracks to the hole better.

[distantdg]

Ok now that makes sense, Thanks for the clarification Tafe.

[pickax]

Just because the creek is there doesn't mean you have to bring it in play. I do not like playing courses with a lot of water where one cannot easily retrieve an errant shot.

[Bruce Brakel]

The difference between a righty anhyzer and a lefty hyzer is a righty anhyzer begins turning right early in the flight path, basically as soon as you release it, and it loses turn and may even straighten out before the end of its flight.  A lefty hyzer starts straighter and fades more and more through its flight.  It is kind of like the difference between a ) and a J if you turn your monitor upside down. 

Righty anhyzers, righty turn overs, lefty fades, and lefty hyzers all go to the right but they take different routes to get there.  Depending on what is on the left side of the fairway, a right turning hole might be one or another or more than one of those. 

I throw right handed and left handed on well designed courses that include medium to short lefty hyzer and lefty fade holes.  Not every righty anhyzer hole has a lefty hyzer route. 

[can't putt]

I've thought a bit more about your proposed location for alternate 9.  That path across the ravine is the only access fishermen and dog-walkers have around that side of the pond (except for walking all the way around clockwise).  I'd hate to throw a good shot through the gap only to have it clock a fisherman in the head who was walking back to his car.  I think that placement might lead to a lot of non-golfer complaints.

Here's some good resources on design:
Course Design Guidelines for PDGA Skill Levels and Divisions
Design a Disc Golf Course by "Steady" Ed
PDGA discussion on creating score distibution
PDGA course design and installation forum

[distantdg]

That's hole 9 in general, in the summer there is always somebody fishing along the side of hole 9. When you walk back there and take a look that's not where they fish. they'll fish about 300 feet more left because where the pin is going to be is protected by trees on the lake side.

I think, I'm being misunderstood here. Not every hole where the creek can come into play well come in the play the only holes where we tried to get the creek in play is hole 1 and 5. And not every basket would be moved to alternates all and once its going to be a mix to create the well-rounded course needing an all array of shots. If you have a creek and a lake, like there is at Jericho it would be foolish not to use that. Not alot of courses around here have such features to do so. And good shots should be awarded while bad shots shouldn't be.

[can't putt]

People walking on the 9 fairway or fishing on the edge of the 9 fairway are very visible.  I'm talking about the gap across the ravine.  The fisherman or dog walker going from the south side of the pond to the parking lot has to walk through the gap and can't see golfers throwing that direction until they are in the gap.  Unless the golfer is lined up just so, the golfer can't see anyone aproaching the gap from the other side.  It's an accident waiting to happen.