PDGA disgruntlement

[grunion]

The PDGA is making very bad decisions in taking a non anonymous stance for there discussion board. This will probably bring more traffic this way. How do you guys feel about the changes and what opinions do you have? Alot of what I read is that alot of members have not renewed this year and in the past. I think it is time for another organization to step up and take on the PDGA from another active association stance that could compete head to head with the PDGA. I am working to build such a group. Any comments? I know this will light up the boards so cmon.

[mirth]

personally, I think people should be able to be held accountable for their words both in real life and online.... I've toyed around with banning posts from nonregistered members of this discussion board in the past, however 99% of the time we know who the anonymous posters are. We so far also don't have the problems that the pdga board does have regarding that.

[grunion]

10-4, I agree! Accountability is everything to an extent.  Now that you have said that the majority of the time you know who an anon poster is, would'nt that make them accountable?  As far as the PDGA goes, I dont think anyone would have the problems they will have since they instated the "On the course Sanctioned on the board Sanctioned mentality." This is going to bring the communication lines down to a stand still. No one will want to post without putting their humor or style in their posts which will almost always be offensive to somebody. They need not to be liable for what is said on there forums. Its just obserd!

[Jon Brakel]

I think on-line posting shouldn't be anon and I think the PDGA board should be reserved for PDGA members only. But that's only my opinion.

I also think it wouldn't be a bad idea to have another disc golf governing body. The SN group is pretty much like that already, although they have limited themselves to the South.

Most people that I have encountered who are disgruntled with the PDGA seem to have a perverse assessment of who/what the PDGA are/is. They often think that the PDGA is some group of people sitting in an ivory tower making decisions for the minions. Really the PDGA is a large group of volunteers (there are only 3 paid staff in the PDGA). These volunteers are just regular disc golfing folks just like Brett, Bruce and me. We, along with a whole buch of other volunteers, are putting on 7 PDGA disc golf tournaments this year. These are the volunteers that make up the PDGA.

So, which one of us do you have a problem with?    

[grunion]

Particularly with Terry Calhoun, Nick Kight, and some others that use their abilities for a unsatisfying, dictoral, and ignorance is bliss point of view. Then I have users like yourself that would like to detract from the original post and try to take it to a "You gotta problem with me" mentality. I just dont get it.

I only want their to be another organization that regular people that dont use their PDGA  status as a tool. Would'nt it be great if a group on inbread hillbillies stepped up to a compititon and kicked the living doo doo out of all the PDGA pro's! That is my vision. Hhehehe. Well I am getting away on a drift , lets continue.

[Dan Michler]

what would be different about your organization from the current pdga?

[grunion]

#1 This organization would be %100 volunteered and open to "EVERYONE".

I and a friend of mine (an avid female disc golfer) have been told by Terry Calhoun himself that if I applied to be a member we would be denied.

#2 Our organization would not be represented by anything but Disc Golf.
We would not hold members accountable or believe that one or a group represents anything but their own opinions. Nor would we believe that we would liable for what is exchanged on our message boards.

I believe if you are a person, you should hold you to yourself to be as accountable as you are when you were voting for president.  (Counted but not fearing repercussions from opposing opinions or [party/club])

If you have an issue with a TD or anyone you should feel free to voice your opinion. We would not blast you or ban you for having issues during Tournaments.  We are not a regulating syndicated club. We are a group of regular everyday and crazyday people that all have a fascination with this sport.

We would make up the others. We are. We have something in common that brings us together as a group and that is disc golf. Take the good with the bad. We all count.

[Dan Michler]

i'll be honest dude.  you make this sound like a pretty personal issue that you have with terry calhoun and whoever else on the message board.  not sure how your ideas are really important to helping the game of disc golf.

[Brian]

If you have an issue with a TD or anyone you should feel free to voice your opinion. We would not blast you or ban you for having issues during Tournaments. We are not a regulating syndicated club. We are a group of regular everyday and crazyday people that all have a fascination with this sport.

You also seem to be a fan of Cam Todd.  

Why would a TD put on a tourny if they could be dressed up and down in front of a large group of people by someone who is venting for thier round?  I know that I personally would not want that.  

I and a friend of mine (an avid female disc golfer) have been told by Terry Calhoun himself that if I applied to be a member we would be denied.

I thought that the PDGA just took your money and you were in it.  Is there a screening process?  If so please tell me the criteria that is needed to become a member.


It sounds like you don't want people to be held accountable by an organization, yet you stated above people need to accountable for what they post.  You can't have you cake and eat it too.  

I have my gripes with the PDGA just like the next person.  If I went and joined a new organization it would have to provide me with guarantees and a player rating system that worked for the average player and provided me with more than a magazine for my yearly membership.

-Brian Kielar
#23570

[CEValkyrie]

The PDGA is making very bad decisions in taking a non anonymous stance for there discussion board. This will probably bring more traffic this way. How do you guys feel about the changes and what opinions do you have? Alot of what I read is that alot of members have not renewed this year and in the past. I think it is time for another organization to step up and take on the PDGA from another active association stance that could compete head to head with the PDGA. I am working to build such a group. Any comments? I know this will light up the boards so cmon.

I think the PDGA Board should stay open to everyone. However, i'd like them to add a thread that only PDGA members can post on as well. That is what we have with this board. I think having people who are not members posting can be a positive as well as negative but it's worth the risk in my opinion.

From what i've heard renewals to this point are way up & there has been an increase in membership. I know in this area more & more players are joining the PDGA every year.

I'm personally ok with what the PDGA is doing. There are ways of changing things. Run for positions & vote. Having volunteers is great for a new organization but that will not last long. It's tough getting people to do things over an extended period of time. The PDGA has held strong. The sport is changing & it will need some tweaking. I know it's changed a lot in the short period i've been playing.

[Jon Brakel]

Then I have users like yourself that would like to detract from the original post and try to take it to a "You gotta problem with me" mentality. I just dont get it.

I was being funny. That's why I put the   after it.

[Jon Brakel]

Particularly with Terry Calhoun, Nick Kight, and some others that use their abilities for a unsatisfying, dictoral, and ignorance is bliss point of view.

I have never met Nick Kight. I have a lot of respect for Terry Calhoun and he is a very nice guy. I also believe that he and the current BOD would like to rewrite the PDGA constitution in order to take more rights away from PDGA members. Rights like being able to request any PDGA documents at any time. I plan to fight against those changes, but I expect to lose...much as I lost the fight to retain PDGA members rights to be heard at PDGA BOD meetings several years ago. I also expect that it won't make a difference in the day to day running of the organization or my happiness with disc golf.

I disagree with changing the PDGA constitution and I think that Terry is a big proponent of that change. However, I can still talk to Terry and he still returns my e-mails.

If you create a good organization, it will be good for disc golf. I wish you success in your endeavors.

[grunion]

Dan Michler,
My issues with Terry do not deter my focus from the big picture. The one where everyone is attending events because they want to, not because they have to make their 8 tourneys for what ever reason the PDGA has.

Brian,
I do not call myself a fan of Cam because I do not know him personally nor am I aware of the details on his incidences. I believe if someone acts up in a Tourney and cross the line it is up to the officials to make the call. I would not hold our organization liable for an individuals actions. Each person is accountable for their own actions.

I am unaware of the protocol of the screening process. I believe as long as you are not me and certain other individuals that have been banned then you are A OK as long as you don't speak your mind and you conform to their standards and of course pay the DUES!

I am expecting people to be held accountable for their own actions and not have the organization liable or feel the need to reprimand our members. If they cross the line then the local judge will take it up with them not our society. If you want to post anonymously on our board then we support that as well. This will be a 18 and over club that is available to anyone within the age requirements. Maybe the 18 and under can post in a censored thread or maybe we just wont have that option. Still putting it all together.

As far as a player rating system goes, I will be taking opinions from everyone as to what their needs are and see if we cant come to a logical solution for "EVERYONE".

CEValkyrie,
Wanting the PDGA to do something and them actually doing it seams to be one of the issues at hand with their association. I believe it is worth the risk of have anon posting as well. If you don't like an individuals post we will offer an ignore user post  to everyone.

From what I have heard the PDGA has close to 30,000 members and only 6000 are currently actively a member.

I am aware that the volunteers will have duties over an extended period of time and I believe if you are overloaded then you should be able to rely on others to help out. I am looking for a solution to what the PDGA is not and it will take all of us working together to make this happen.

Jon,
Thanks for your good wishes as we appreciate it. Why don't you take the time to pm me your email so we can all stay on the same page? I like your opinions and they prove very productive. Please take the time to email me at grunion_2001@yahoo.com so we can all stay on the same page as to what we would like this organization accomplish.

[Clonefan94]

Personally, I'm not the biggest fan of running off and starting your own organization out of anger, frustration, or whatever other gripe you may have. It rarely leads to any good and more often than not just adds to anger and distaste for each others groups. Now, I don't pay a lot of attention to the inside workings of the PDGA, I have other cares closer to home that keep me busy enough. I am though, more for making change rather than making a new group. Rather than segregate yourself from the PDGA, you should probably be working to get closer. Get to a point where you can make a change. That is only my opinion. Best case scenario you'll have two groups plotted against each other. "No, I can't play that, that's a PDGA event!" or visa-versa. All it seems like it will do is lessen the competition because groups will be split rather than all playing together.

I'll even give a couple example of major sporting organizations that never benefitted from dissention.

NFL - USFL - USFL Folded (even earlier the AFL combined with the NFL because they couldn't compete)

NBA - ABA - even with a more stylish brand of Basketball the ABA had to merge with the NBA to still keep some credibility. In the process, losing most of their original teams.

Cart - Indycar - Both are still around but most people will admit the only reason either is around is the Indy 500, which only Indycar can participate in. Eventually CART will come to the same fate as the USFL and the ABA. In the mean time both sides hate each other and tend to separate a fanbase rather than combine it.

I would rather see discgolfers all working for one common good for the sport. Rather than trying to drive that group away. Seems like wasted energy to me.

Sorry for the long post.