2006 Rules: Changes from 2005

[Bruce Brakel]

A link to the new 2006 rules is posted on the home page at PDGA.com.  I have not had a chance to review them because our clerk's computer cannot download that kind of document.  I'll post later.  

[mirth]

think its the kind of changes that will require officials to recertify?

[CEValkyrie]

think its the kind of changes that will require officials to recertify?

I doubt it. I just looked at the changes and they are fairly minor.  

[Bruce Brakel]

The lost disc and unplayable lie changes are less than minor.  If you play courses where there are unplayable lies or opportunities to lose discs, you should read the new rules.  Both of these new rules make the game more punitive.  

The lost disc rule has been rewritten to conform to the rules of golf.  The language of the rule makes it clear that the author of the rule consulted the ruoles of golf, because he used the same strange "reasonable evidence" language.  When is evidence unreasonable?  

The unplayable lie rule has been rewritten to be less like golf.  In golf you can always take three club lengths lateral relief and a one stroke penalty.  The disc golf equivalent rule has now been abolished.  The infinite relief 2-throw penalty has also been abolished.  

They won't ever require officials to recertify because they do not have the volunteer or employee resources to handle a mass recertification.  They only require recertification if you let your membership lapse, and even then, I doubt that there is any system for tracking and enforcement.

[distantdg]

the line that marks out of bounds is now OUT right?

[Bruce Brakel]

Yes, after years of telling players, "But the out of bounds line is itself in bounds," we now have out of bounds lines that are out of bounds.  So if any part of your disc is merely touching the o.b. rope or o.b. paint line, and the rest of the disc is out of bounds, your disc is now out of bounds and not in bounds.  Now the edge your disc has to crawl at least one angstrom unit off the line towards the in bounds side, or you are still o.b.  This only matters when the o.b. line has width, which by definition it never has.  

Unfortunately, because it is still an imaginary geometric line defining an imaginary plane, you still have the "flexible fence scenario."  One would think if they were going to bother adressing the fence conundrums, they'd address both of them.  

[Jon Brakel]

UGH!

[amdiscgolfer]

Will we get a new rule book with our renewal?

[Jon Brakel]

If the OB line, by PDGA definition, has no width and you throw a disc that is touching the OB line, then wouldn't you be in bounds? Since the OB line has no width, but whatever is touching MUST have some width because it isn't imaginary, then wouldn't it HAVE to be also touching in bounds?

[mirth]

Yes, I believe a new rule book will be sent with renewals.

[Bruce Brakel]

Since the o.b. line by definition has no width it cannot be out of bounds.  It exists in an imaginary widthless space defined by the out of bounds area and in bounds area.  So the rule, as you have implied, contradicts the definition.  

What they mean when they say that the out of bounds line is out of bounds is that any physical object or mark used to define the out of bounds line is entirely out of bounds.  If you, as the TD, say that the fence is the out of bounds line, well, it isn't.  Fences aren't lines.  But when you say that, you've said that there is an out of bounds line defined by the fence and the area on the in bounds side of the fence such that any disc touching any part of the in bounds area on the in bounds side of the fence is in bounds.  

You are doing very well for someone who never had classical metaphysics or epistemology.  

[Chainmeister]

BASKETBALL.  

Say what?  In Basketball, the ball is out of bounds as soon as it touches the line.  This differs from BASEBALL.  In baseball, the ball is inbounds until it completely crosses the line.  If the baseball is touching the line, it is still inbounds.

Apparently, a disc that touches the line is out of bounds.  

disc golf=basketball

If I hit a long putt do I get a 3-pointer?

[maa4208]

My dad will be really really happy about these rule changes. He played ball golf for many years and he was really used to the ball golf rules. He used to argue about the rules in disc golf, saying that 'That's not how it is in ball golf." I'd say "This isn't ball golf, it's disc golf!" Now if they could change the water rule than he'd be a happy camper.  (You have to ask him on it)

[Jon Brakel]

My dad will be really really happy about these rule changes. He played ball golf for many years and he was really used to the ball golf rules. He used to argue about the rules in disc golf, saying that 'That's not how it is in ball golf." I'd say "This isn't ball golf, it's disc golf!" Now if they could change the water rule than he'd be a happy camper.  (You have to ask him on it)

I thought that the water rule in disc golf is pretty much the same as it is in ball golf. Play it where it lies unless it is unplayable, marked as OB, or played as casual.

[Bruce Brakel]

First, regarding BASKETBALL, the rule is still if any part of the disc is touching in bounds it is in bounds.

What is new is (a) the line has no width and ( touching the line is touching out of bounds, not touching in bounds.  ( matters mainly only in the strange circumstance where a disc comes to rest leaning on an o.b. fence line but is otherwise entirely out of bounds [used to be it was touching in bounds; now it is out of bounds] or where a disc flys out of bounds, starts coming back towards in bounds, hits the fence on the o.b. side and finishes out of bounds [used to be point of last touching the fence was in bounds even though it touched the fence on the o.b. side; now that last point of touching is irrelevant if the disc was out of bounds when it was touching.]  So the rule change has an impact on hole 2 at Bevier if you try to go over the tennis courts during a competion governed by PDGA rules.  

( also matters where the TD sloppily defines the line as something having width and you come to rest entirely on that thing.  A good example is the concrete curb on the road running parallel to holes 4 and 5 at Bevier.  If Jon says, "The concrete curb and gutter is the o.b. line," you could land a hyzer entirely on the curb and gutter, or partly in the road and partly on the gutter.  Under the old rule you were in bounds.  Now you are out of bounds.  

At Fairfield for the IOS Fairwell the rule change would have a very small impact on yellow rope issues.  The roap usually has a little tail wherever it begins and ends.  Under the old rule you could be touching the tail but otherwise sevral inches into the o.b. area, and you were in bounds.  I don't think it ever happened but it could have happened.  Under the new rule that disc is o.b.

So the new rule really only impacts a few freaky kinds of throws, but at one time or another I've seen every one of them.

What will have more impact on the game is having radically different penalties for over 2 meters, lost disc and o.b. disc.  Used to be you did not have to determine whether a disc over two meters up in a tree was on which side of the o.b. line or whether it really was even your disc.  And I can think of specific examples where that occured and I was quick to say, "Doesn't matter.  Same penalty."  Now any two of those will rarely be the same penalty.  

[maa4208]

My dad will be really really happy about these rule changes. He played ball golf for many years and he was really used to the ball golf rules. He used to argue about the rules in disc golf, saying that 'That's not how it is in ball golf." I'd say "This isn't ball golf, it's disc golf!" Now if they could change the water rule than he'd be a happy camper.   (You have to ask him on it)

I thought that the water rule in disc golf is pretty much the same as it is in ball golf. Play it where it lies unless it is unplayable, marked as OB, or played as casual.

Not according to my dad. Lets say there is a creek with some water. My dad says that if it is in the creek but not in the water, it is a hazard. He should post next so you'll get his opinion.  

[adoni]

Ok ................

I am pleased to see that the PDGA has chosen to make some changes to the rules.  I have heard so many local golfers complain that the courses are too easy, when in fact it's the rules that need some work and it's the players that need to adhere to said rules.  The game is still in it's infancy albeit it is gaining popularity.

I love the game of golf, in all forms, video, ball, disc.  It's a reflection of life, there's rules and they need to be followed and one needs to practice all aspects of the game (life) to be good.  I know, this is deep, but if Bruce can go on about "classical metaphysics or epistemology" then I can veer a bit too.  

PDGA definition: "Out-of-Bounds: An area designated by the director prior to the start of play from which a disc may not be played.  The out-of-bounds line extends a plane vertically upward and downward. The out-of-bounds line is itself out-of-bounds.  An out-of-bounds disc is not a lost disc."

PGA definition: "Out of bounds " is beyond the boundaries of the course or any part of the course so marked by the Committee.  When out of bounds is defined by reference to stakes or a fence or as being beyond stakes or a fence, the out of bounds line is determined by the nearest inside points of the stakes or fence posts at ground level excluding angled supports. Objects defining out of bounds such as walls, fences, stakes and railings, are not obstructions and are deemed to be fixed. When out of bounds is defined by a line on the ground, the line itself is out of bounds.  The out of bounds line extends vertically upward and downward.  A ball is out of bounds when all of it lies out of bounds.  A player may stand out of bounds to play a ball lying within bounds.

I believe the two have a commonality, "the out of bounds line extends vertically upward and downward", but there is a caveat ... In ball golf if the ball comes to rest against a post that is deemed the boundary of OB, then the ball is OB, but if the ball is near the OB line, the entire ball must be outside the boundary to be OB.  If half the ball is on the "plane", then it's in bounds.  Same would be true with disc golf, a disc rolls and comes to rest against a post or whatever marker that defines OB, the disc is OB.  If it comes to rest on the "plane" then it's clearly in bounds.  Here begins a difference, because in ball golf you can stand OB and hit the ball - no penalty, in disc golf you can not be OB and throw because you'd have to take the disc entirely past the "plane" to throw it.  

PDGA Definition: Water Hazard:  not defined, but Casual Water is defined.

PGA Definition: A "water hazard" is any sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open water course (whether or not containing water) and anything of a similar nature on the course. All ground or water within the margin of a water hazard is part of the water hazard. The margin of a water hazard extends vertically upward and downward. Stakes and lines defining the margins of water hazards are in the hazards. Such stakes are obstructions. A ball is in a water hazard when it lies in or any part of it touches the water hazard.
Note 1: Stakes or lines used to define a water hazardmust be yellow. When both stakes and lines are used to define water hazards, the stakes identify the hazard and the lines define the hazard margin.
Note 2: The Committee may make a LocalRule prohibiting play from an environmentally-sensitive area defined as a water hazard.

Water hazards ... Michael is correct I do go on a rant about water.  And it's not that I don't think water hazards should exist, it's how they are defined.  It's how the rule is interpreted.  I've played in many casual rounds and tournaments and heard a player state after being in the water .. "... but my disc is touching a branch that's sticking out of the water and touching the shore ... "  SHEESH!  The PGA defines the water having a margin on either side and it again has this "plane" that defines it.  They also go on to state, that the ball is in the hazard when "it lies in or ANY part of it touches the water hazard."  Nothing about being 50% covered, no branches sticking out of the water ... if you've broken that "plane" .. you're OB.  That's my beef, and I'm learning that this is DISC GOLF not ball golf as my son keeps telling me.  

The Royal and Ancient Committee along with the USGA have established the rules of golf and they've been around for a few hundred years ... and something seems to work, because people keep playing the game and follow the rules.

[maa4208]

Wow.     How long did it take you to do that?

[maa4208]

He should post next so you'll get his opinion.

See. I told you that he'd post next.  

[Bruce Brakel]

No one on the rules committee thinks that the stick sticking out into the creek that the disc comes to rest against saves the disc from being out of bounds.  Some players will argue this.  Some TDs will buy it.  If the creek is o.b., the water's edge defines the o.b. line and that disc is o.b. unless it is touching the bank.