Sweet! New FLX Plastic from Discraft!

[stpitner]

It is still looking very likely I'll be in town on Super Bowl Sunday, and I'll play Bevier league that morning.  I have the last 53 FLX discs they're going to have for a couple of weeks.  The Buzzzes are mostly 172 but mixed weights.  The Surges are mostly 160 to 164 which is kind of light, but since the FLX is more overstable, that might be a nice weight for some of us.  I'll post tomorrow after I pick them up. 

I'll set some aside if you still want them.  If the Buzzzes are slightly overstable for ESP, I'll probably want all 40 of those for myself! 

I'd be interested in 4 Surges... the light weights are fine.  The only problem is that I have a card show on superbowl sunday *sigh* and can't go to leagues.  I'm currently trying to work it out to get to leagues 2/11 since that's the next meeting day.  The show is in Rolling Meadows and isn't over until 2 though. hrmm...

[Bruce Brakel]

They are supposed to be really bright orange and really bright green.  I'm getting them on my lunch hour.

[tacimala]

I agree with Jonathan on the Surge portion, I have the same weight for both the ESP and FLX discs and the FLX version is more stable for sure. As for the Buzzz, I would not compare it to the D Buzzz, but I have not thrown it enough times to compare to the ESP. From what I have seen, I would say the ESP is more stable, but I'll test that more this weekend.

[Bruce Brakel]

I've got FLX.  They are all that neon Discraft green that looks yellow to me.  The Surges are all in the 161 to 164 range.  I'll set them aside for Illinois players because Erich liked that idea.  Michigan players have been getting them at other tournaments.  The Buzzzes are mainly 170 to 172 but I have not gone through all of them.

When warm they are very soft.  About as soft as the Soft Rhynos used to be.  Maybe softer.  Softer than Swirl APXs ever were.  When they are frozen to 22 degrees, a number I pick because it has been that temperature in my car since lunch time, they are a little softer than normal ESP.  The Star plastic in my car at 22 degrees is fairly rigid.  The FLX is nice and flexy.  If you have noticed how Star and ESP gets slippery when frozen, this stuff is still grippy.  I did not have time to throw them but tomorrow I will. 

I also got a new Soft GT Banger.  If you liked the Banger but like soft putters, here you go.  I attempted one 20 footer in the office and made it.  I like soft putters.  I'm switching. 

[stpitner]

I had to put away the Banger-GT because the ESP was too slick and the Pro-D was getting torn up extremely fast.  I really want to try out that Soft Banger-GT!

Sounds like you won't be out at the Ice Bowl in the morning Bruce?  Too bad!  I'll catch you soon I'm sure

[Bruce Brakel]

The Soft Banger is not FLX.  It is a plastic they will probably call Soft X, but it is different from all their previous Soft X plastics.  It has a rubbery, grippy texture. 

[Bruce Brakel]

The Waterford Junior Girls Club threw the FLX on the football field today.  [Some of them are staying with us this weekend because their parents have something going on.] 

Because the Surges are in the low 160s, I immediately sold one to Kira and one to Emily.  They were really bombing the Surge compared to how far they throw their Flashes.  I think it is the ten grams.  I think these 160 FLX Surges would be good for lower power players, but not much use to the cannon arms. 

The FLX Buzzz is what I've been looking for.  Kelsey says it is a little more overstable than a first run.  It is less understable than the normal ESP Buzzz.  It is a little more overstable than a colormax z Buzzz, which I think is a lot like a first run.  It is really nice, in other words.  The stabilty variations might be unnoticeable to some players, but I throw Buzzzes for a short driver and I throw different kinds for different shots. 

We'll have to see how they wear and how they fly in warmer weather. 

[stpitner]

The Soft Banger is not FLX.  It is a plastic they will probably call Soft X, but it is different from all their previous Soft X plastics.  It has a rubbery, grippy texture. 

yup, I knew that.  Although thanks for the clarification and I'm sure others didn't know that.  I still want a bunch, but at least I can order those (maybe when I sell some of my 300+ of other stuff in stock!)

[Bruce Brakel]

I was throwing a 172 FLX Buzzz at Byron today.  These are sweet discs.  They are not a bit flippy in neutral wind, but they are not overstable either. 

It looks very much like I'll be coming to town for the Super Bowl. 

[Bruce Brakel]

Disc-n-Dat has them but they would be 21 bucks with shipping so if someone knows where I can get a surge cheaper than that I would appreciate it.

Thanks

As promised, I was at league on Sunday.  I'll go $16 with free shipping.  I'll go cheaper for quantity orders.  They are all the very bright green that looks yellow to some of us.  E-mail me. 

[Bruce Brakel]

I'm now sold out of the Surges because Kira decided to stockpile some under her bed.  She can really throw the Surge a long ways and it is much more reliable for her than a Flash because she throws with a little off-axis torque. 

I still have some FLX Buzzzes left.  I'm throwing one for straight tunnel shots. 

Pitner will probably have a few FLX Buzzzes at the Irish You Good Luck tournament.  Maybe.  Maybe he bought them for himself.  I didn't ask. 

[stpitner]

I'm now sold out of the Surges because Kira decided to stockpile some under her bed.  She can really throw the Surge a long ways and it is much more reliable for her than a Flash because she throws with a little off-axis torque. 

I still have some FLX Buzzzes left.  I'm throwing one for straight tunnel shots. 

Pitner will probably have a few FLX Buzzzes at the Irish You Good Luck tournament.  Maybe.  Maybe he bought them for himself.  I didn't ask. 

The Buzzz's will be available at the tournament.  I will only have FOUR of them.  The one and only Surge that Bruce had left... well, that's currently up for public debate if that one will be there or not   It's tough to say "yes I have it" and then only bring one disc lol.

[tjdub42]

. . . because she throws with a little off-axis torque. 

How much would you charge to review my drives for a little off-axis tourque?

[DougEDawg]

a definition of off-axis torgue would be nice too.  You defined it b4 in another thread awhile back, but I'm too lazy to search for it.

[Dan Michler]

a definition of off-axis torgue would be nice too.  You defined it b4 in another thread awhile back, but I'm too lazy to search for it.

its very similar to on-axis torque, only its a little off-axis.

[Chainmeister]

The vernacular term is "cockeyed".  I have been throwing that way for years.

[Bruce Brakel]

Torque is a force that imparts spinning motion.  So we all throw with torque.  The disc spins around the axis, which in this case is the imaginary line through the center of the disc.  Off axis torque is when the disc is released in such a way as to cause the axis to rotate as well as the disc.  The centrifugal effect of the spinning disc resists off axis torque, which can cause your disc to wobble on release. 

A lot of the time off-axis torque causes your disc to anhyzer into the ground.  Usually off-axis torque is caused by rolling your wrist on release, rolling to palm up backhand or to palm down forehand.  Usually when I roll my wrist it is because I was trying to overpower the disc or throw with more power than I can control. 

Maybe because the Surge Kira is throwing is a lot lighter than her Flash, she isn't trying to over power it.  Maybe the added stability of the Surge resists off axis torque better. 

Knowing this kind of body mechanics stuff does not make you a better player.  It could hurt your game by giving you too much to think about at a moment when your mind needs to be completely empty.  What worked for me when I started learning this stuff was to think a lot about it at the football field when I was practicing, and to not think about it all during tournaments and competitive rounds. 

[discmonkey]

Off axis torque is one of the biggest culprits when it comes to a player not being able to develop consistent D.  It also hinders their ability to improve as well as their ability to perform well with a fairway control driver.  If you watch Neil crush his putters and elements you will see someone throwing just about pure on axis rotation.  That's why he can chuck a mid 350' into a modest wind and the thing just flies flat.  When you learn (and I'm by no means saying I know how to do this well, but I've played with people who were excellent at it) to throw with no off axis torque, you now see how each disc was supposed to fly.  Newer players with 275-325 feet of D are out there throwing wraiths and starfires because they keep burning discs like valks and flashes into the ground.  Those people never learn to throw with accuracy because they don't have the ability to throw a fairway driver with accuracy and have it launch and fly flat.

I definitely agree that this is something best worked on in a field, but for my own personal development, I can't think of much related to driving and upshots that has helped me improve more than trying to get rid of any off axis torque unless I mean to do it for a turnover line.

[can't putt]

Thread Drift -- Off-Axis Torque (OAT)

This term (OAT) confuses me.  Is it referring to precession (where the axis of rotation wobbles like a spinning top or the earth) or "roll" (where the axis of rotation itself rotates around the axis of flight)?  It seems to me that precession should always be minimized to the extent possible.  Roll, OTOH, is inherent in the flight characteristics of the disc and is used to advantage in hyzer-flips, right?

Bruce, are you saying your daughter induces additional roll by changing the hyzer angle of the disc through the release point, and is this what is commonly meant by OAT?

I try to throw Valks and Flashes hyzer-flip style.  Tim, are you saying I would have better results throwing with a flat release?  Is there a Eureka moment here for me?

[Mike S]

Bruce, are you saying your daughter induces additional roll by changing the hyzer angle of the disc through the release point, and is this what is commonly meant by OAT?

Bingo.  Off-axis torque is usually because youre trying to throw too hard.