Rules clarifications

[J.R.]

I had two rules questions I know someone here can clarify for me.

1)  The rules on falling putts (that I could find) mention nothing about "until the disc comes to rest in the basket."  But that is what I have heard a lot of people say recently.  So, do you have to demonstrate balance period, or can do you only have to keep your body behind the lie until the disc has come to rest in the basket (within 10 meters).  I always thought the former, but some people in tourneys recently have led me to believe that I can flail like mad and then fall flat on my face in front of the lie as long as the disc has come to rest in the basket (don't know about the disc coming to rest on the ground).

2)  In looking for an answer to 1I, just noticed a rule  that says you must be in contact with the playing surface when the disc leaves you hand.  That's clear enough, but I must have always missed that one.  So, when jump putting, the disc must leave your hand before your foot leaves the ground?

[Jon Brakel]

I had two rules questions I know someone here can clarify for me.

1)  The rules on falling putts (that I could find) mention nothing about "until the disc comes to rest in the basket."  But that is what I have heard a lot of people say recently.  So, do you have to demonstrate balance period, or can do you only have to keep your body behind the lie until the disc has come to rest in the basket (within 10 meters).  I always thought the former, but some people in tourneys recently have led me to believe that I can flail like mad and then fall flat on my face in front of the lie as long as the disc has come to rest in the basket (don't know about the disc coming to rest on the ground).

2)  In looking for an answer to 1I, just noticed a rule  that says you must be in contact with the playing surface when the disc leaves you hand.  That's clear enough, but I must have always missed that one.  So, when jump putting, the disc must leave your hand before your foot leaves the ground?

1) You must demonstrate balance before going past your mark. So you can fall backwards or step back or even straight sideways but then you have to demonstrate balance before you step past your mark to retrieve your disc. Most people at tournaments don't know the rules. Always carry a rule book with you and make the guy who calls you show you the rule in the book.

2) That's correct. When performed properly it really has to be a putt-jump and not the misnomer jump-putt. A lot of players jump putt illegally...even top pros.

[can't putt]

From the PDGA rules Q&A:

The rules do not require that you maintain your balance while putting. You can have a grand mal seizure as long as you don't step ahead of your lie. At the time you decide to step ahead of your lie is when you have to demonstrate balance. This is simply to prove that you are not committing a falling putt, such that you would not be able to stop yourself from falling forward due to the motion of your putt. Grabbing a branch is merely acquiring another support point, which is perfectly legal, as long as it is not ahead of your lie.

Meaning you can step in front of your lie at any time after you putt provided it is demonstrably a controlled step and not the result of momentum from your putt.

[Working Stiff]

Most people at tournaments don't know the rules. Always carry a rule book with you and make the guy who calls you show you the rule in the book.

Jon speaks the truth.  You have to be very careful about what you hear and who you believe.  I know a lot of guys that have played for a long time who truly believe you can fall forward after the disc comes to rest in the basket attachment.  It is common disinformation.  You looked it up after you heard it, so you already have the right idea.

The jump putting thing it kind of comical.  Everybody knows that 90% of the pros do it illegally, yet no one calls it, the PDGA isn't making an issue of it, and it goes on and on.  You read threads on the PDGA website where people waste hours complaining about standardizing baskets and other drivel.  I guess the "Top Pros" have decided that too many putts spit out, so a dramatic (and expensive) action to improve the baskets is needed.  The spit outs apparently are making a mockery of the sport, but the illegal jump putts are just fine.      Never mind that new targets will cost a ton of money, and illegal jump putts can be fixed for free.  But the burden to fix the baskets will fall on the grass-roots clubs and promoters, and to fix the jump-putt issue the "pros" would have to do something.     I guess you and I are supposed to go out and raise money to replace all the baskets in Northern Illinois so that the pros will have a target that will hold their illegal jump putts.    Oh, and by the way...make sure none of that money we spend on new baskets comes out of the "cash added" to our next pro purse!   

That's "professional" disc golf for ya!

[CEValkyrie]

Bruce,

You let Matt Hall get you that worked up? You should use your own advice when you see his posts & ignore them. I don't believe one word that kid says. I'm sure one of the best players is heading a players union against baskets, NOT!

[Jon Brakel]

From the PDGA rules Q&A:

The rules do not require that you maintain your balance while putting. You can have a grand mal seizure as long as you don't step ahead of your lie. At the time you decide to step ahead of your lie is when you have to demonstrate balance. This is simply to prove that you are not committing a falling putt, such that you would not be able to stop yourself from falling forward due to the motion of your putt. Grabbing a branch is merely acquiring another support point, which is perfectly legal, as long as it is not ahead of your lie.

Meaning you can step in front of your lie at any time after you putt provided it is demonstrably a controlled step and not the result of momentum from your putt.

Not quite. You have to demonstrate balance FIRST, then you can step forward. A lot of people demonstrate balance by standing for a very brief moment with two feet on the ground and not moving. Some people demonstrate balance by turning around and picking up their bag. It would NOT be legal to demonstrate balance by taking a controlled step forward because you have to demonstrate balance FIRST.

[CEValkyrie]

The shot of the day on www.discgolftv.com has a great illustration. This is not a falling putt. She maintained balance prior to advancing to the hole.

[can't putt]

Thanks, that video is the perfect illustration for what I was trying to convey.

[J.R.]

Actually the video was what got me thinking about it.  The way they edited the video they made it seem like the issue was whether or not she stepped forward before the disc came to rest, which reminded me that I'd been meaning to ask if that was really an issue.

[Working Stiff]

Actually the video was what got me thinking about it.  The way they edited the video they made it seem like the issue was whether or not she stepped forward before the disc came to rest, which reminded me that I'd been meaning to ask if that was really an issue.

It would be less confusing if they had provided an answer to their question.  At any rate, at full speed sometimes it is hard to tell, but usually we are watching the disc and not the balance of the thrower.  Even if it HAD been a falling putt, by the time I looked back from the basket to her it would have looked the same to me.

Also, sorry for the previous flip out.  I ran into a sponsored player a few weekends ago.  I was teeing off on #1 and he walked up behind me.  I asked him if he wanted to play a round, and he told me he would if I paid him $20, since it would be the equivalent of a lesson for me.  So, he is a jerk, but not all open players are jerks.  I'll let is go now.

Plus, I never let him play through, and I was really sssslllloooowwww that day. 

[ChrisPUTTS]

I am a bit suprised that a sponsered pro would be such an ass.  They are not making the millions of dollars like pro ball players do, and you would think that they would love the positive rep for being a good person while helping the sport grow...

[J.R.]

Thanks all.  I knew I'd get a quick answer to those.

I do actually carry a rule book in my bag.  And I used it for the first time at IOS 3 when my group told me I could call an unplayable lie with no penalty.  I'm too damn honest: had to take out my rule book and prove them wrong...to my own detriment.

But so many peoeple have told me that you only have to control your balance until the disc comes to rest, that I wondered if I was missing a rule somewhere.