2008 PDGA Format

[Mukey]

Looks to me like Brett does the course prep., lays out temp. holes and runs the new player clinic on Sundays.  Jon organizes the cards, tabulates scores, does all the reports.  You just sell merch. 

LOL!

I see what everyone puts into running these things, totally a group effort. But I've been back there helping also, so I know that a tourney is a LOT of work. Thanks to all for making the IOS great and setting the bar for reporting to the PDGA.   

Back on topic, I think the smaller the divisions, the better the competition. That's all I got to say, other than that, I'd lobby to have my division play on Saturday 

[stpitner]

a slight problem that you might see with an Open AM2 AM4 day is that the Am4's would not be necessarily playing the same course as the Open guys in the same round.  An example would be this weekend.  Open plays 2 sets of longs and Am4 would play 1 short and 1 long.  That may get confuzin'.  Would pro's rather be on Saturday for Ace pool reasons, or would they rather be on Sunday (where Sunday can be good or bad depending on if there is an ace pool rolling over).  I'd honestly rather be on Saturday, but that's just for my own personal reasons.

[Mukey]

Yeah, I knew it wasn't realistic, but I always like playing Saturday and then getting Sunday to relax

[Bruce Brakel]

The tee assignment thing is a good point.  We might be stuck between having amateurs compromise on appropriate tees or Am 4s not getting ratings.  I think we already compromise on that at Aurora, though, since the shorts there seem like they are appropriate for Rec and Under to me and the Longs are for Int and up. 

Since Saturday rolls to Sunday and Sunday rolls to Saturday, the ace pool is a wash once it has rolled for a cycle, which it did a couple of years ago. 

[pickax]

I don't know if it is still an issue, but another item that may make it interesting is ZOEs. By having Pros and Advanced currently on Sunday, I believe we avoid a bunch of conflicts. With any sort of strange mix, ZOEs are going to be rather interesting.

[Bruce Brakel]

Didn't you ever read the whole thing about ZOEs actually being AREAs?  There is no routine enforcement of any of that. 

A rea of
R elatively
E xcessive
A mbiguity

[pickax]

I actually drafted that message with AREA and then edited it to ZOE. I realize its not generally enforced.

[damonshort]

Dan and Mike's double dipping point is a good one....
Chuck's plan does not say what to do with the 40+ divisions and Jr. divisions because he would eliminate those divisions.  I don't think we want to go that way...

Put the am masters and gms with Open, and the pro 40+ on the other day. Some of the better pro masters often play Open anyhow. Open/am gm/am Master/am2/am4, then Pro 40+/am1/am3...

ehhhh, real complications with tee assignments though, and I haven't even included women & juniors here.  Never mind....

[Jon Brakel]

I actually drafted that message with AREA and then edited it to ZOE. I realize its not generally enforced.

I did get a nice apology from Karolyn from the PDGA for approving Brian's tournament on our weekend. I really like Brian but I have no idea why he keeps insisting on scheduling/trying to schedule his tournaments on weekends that we already have events scheduled. But I guess his tournament request went thru the AREA process instead of the ZOE process. Which is really a lose/lose/lose situation for the two TDs and the players. I think the solution to that is to have a 100 mile ZOE for all events. I think 100 miles is really more realistic and then they'd have fewer conflicts to try to avoid.

[Mukey]

I guess he'll have to learn when no Ams show up to his tournament. It's one I woulda maybe gone to had IOS not been the same day. It's a no-brainer that the IOS is better value(player's pack & in the competition & attendance) He'll get the Indiana guys and the some Pro & Adv guys that want to make it a double weekend.

[Chainmeister]

The tee assignment thing is a good point.  We might be stuck between having amateurs compromise on appropriate tees or Am 4s not getting ratings.  I think we already compromise on that at Aurora, though, since the shorts there seem like they are appropriate for Rec and Under to me and the Longs are for Int and up. 

Since Saturday rolls to Sunday and Sunday rolls to Saturday, the ace pool is a wash once it has rolled for a cycle, which it did a couple of years ago. 

I think Scott, and then Bruce touch on a dilemma with the pro/Am2/Am4 plan.  Obviously I prefer to play rated rounds.  If I have to throw from the longs, so be it.  However, it would be a bit weird having Am 4 play longs if Am 3 was not.  It seems you have a conflict between the desire to either a) give most players a reasonabe chance to play on either day,or b)have the course more approximate the types of players playing that day. ie better players on longs, weaker ones on shorts.  I think B makes more sense but ultimiately I will play whenever.  Just tell me the dates and I will show up.  I already have an advantage as I can play an age protected division (if it still exists) if I can't make it on Am 4 day.

[can't putt]

I would not renew if age protected divisions were dropped.  Has nothing to do with competition, everything to do with peer groups.

[pickax]

The current plan by the PDGA is to leave the age protected divisions alone. They know where their bread is buttered.

Since I can't quote Jon above. I think 100 miles is a much more reasonable ZOE/AREA. I'm typically not going to drive more than that for a tourney.

[damonshort]

(never mind)

[Bruce Brakel]

The more I think about it, the more I like the way Open-2-4 splits the field, offers everyone the ironman option, and automatically balances itself for those venues that top players show up for versus those venues that appeal to lower rated players.  I think the new Am 4 will almost always have enough gators at our tournaments.  We had something like 14 under 850 gators at Aurora playing Rec and Am 4.  Just by running Am 4 this year we've beefed up the Am 4 gator pool. 

One drawback of the Open-2-4 / 1-3-age-gender split is that the leaderboard will be a mess on the 1-3-age-gender day.  On that day we'd have something like eleven or twelve divisions.  We could get it down to six colors if we did all juniors one color, all pros another color, all old guy ams a third color, all am women a fourth color, and Am 1 and Am 3 getting different colors. 

[airspuds]

im confused (  that wont surprise anyone )

is there an age protected amatuer division ?

in sanctioned ?

in unsanctioned ?

my thinking was that there wasnt an " intermediate master " division  or "novice master division " for sanctioned T's

i thought that gary offered a prize (mokena and channahon ) ( its a trophey ) to the top master in intermediate and or novice , on the side, to compensate for the lack of that division in a sanctioned event

obviously if its unsanctioned, the division could be offered

so next year ( in a sanctioned event)

im over 40, my rating is 865 still,  where/when do/will i play

i dont see playing adv masters unless i want to play the same day as my brother ( open master)

[pickax]

In unsanctioned anything goes. In sanctioned tournaments, the only divisional change is the number and cutoffs for the am non-age protected divisions. (I don't know what they've done with the women ams). If you are a 40+ 865 male, you are eligible for MPO, MPM, MA1, MA2, MA3, MM1.

[pickax]

Key:
MPO=Pro Open
MPM=Pro Master
MA1=Expert
MA2=Advanced
MA3=Intermediate
MM1=Advanced Master

btw Novice  Master and Int Master can be done in sanctioned divisions the same way Bruce did the MA4 division this year as a trophy-only side bet, but they are not PDGA recognized divisions.

[pickax]

Dave- Nice rant on the PDGA message board on this topic btw.

[Tom McManus]

Dave- Nice rant on the PDGA message board on this topic btw.

Dave who?  How about a link?