2008 PDGA Format

[pickax]

For me when it was $5 or $40, I wasn't saying $40 was too much, but why pay $40 if I'm only playing 4-5 tournaments. I think if you get people standing line at their first tourney in the spring and tell them the non-member fee is $10 and that if they want to become a member it's only $40/$50, they can do the math and may be more likely to join. I don't know how many people that show up ready to play a tournament all day will turn around and go home for that additional $5 they might not have been planning on. Of course, they might be skipping lunch as a consequence.

[Tom McManus]

So now instead of telling the 935 and up rated Ams that they are moving up to Expert (which they had to do) they are asking the players rated 915-934 that were Advanced to move down to Intermediate, which the don't have to do?

Genius.   

Yeah. I am totally offended by being called an intermediate. I may quit playing. How dare someone have the audacity to create a division where I am an intermediate.
I propose the following divisions:

Okay
Pretty good
Darn Good
Excellent
Fantastic

Is that less offensive to your sensiblities?

Or how about:
White
Green
Red
Blue
Gold

Although I have always had something against people who are blue, so I wouldn't want to be affiliated with the blue group. And green people....

[Dan Michler]

An accurate description of players at my skill level would just be the Horrible division.  I'm pumped about the possibility of being Intermediate next year so I can play 2 days at the 2008 IOS events.

How about we go with:
Ridiculous
Embarrassing
Bad
Sux Balls
Pro Donators
Awesome

McManus would be a Sux Balls Grandmaster to give you a reference as to the ratings breaks for these new divisions.   

[CEValkyrie]

I'm hoping for Open 1,2,& 3 in 2009. That way I can play with the same 3 or 4 people and we can all be winners. Yeah baby!

[Working Stiff]

So now instead of telling the 935 and up rated Ams that they are moving up to Expert (which they had to do) they are asking the players rated 915-934 that were Advanced to move down to Intermediate, which the don't have to do?

Genius.   

Yeah. I am totally offended by being called an intermediate. I may quit playing. How dare someone have the audacity to create a division where I am an intermediate.
I propose the following divisions:

Okay
Pretty good
Darn Good
Excellent
Fantastic

Is that less offensive to your sensiblities?

Or how about:
White
Green
Red
Blue
Gold

Although I have always had something against people who are blue, so I wouldn't want to be affiliated with the blue group. And green people....

I play disc golf, so I'm pretty much immune to being offended.  I actually get to go all the way back to being a "Recreational" player, which is actually pretty accurate.  I was hoping for an "Awkwardly Unskilled" division, but "Recreational" it is!

The original names were kind of ridiculous, but I understood what they were trying to do.  If the top of Advanced becomes Expert, the over 935 guys "move up."  It's a positive move.  The way it stands now the 915-934 guys "move down" to Intermediate, which is a negative move.  From a psychological and marketing perspective the original idea is better.  No big deal, it all smoke and mirrors.  The actual news is the ratings breaks, which stayed the same as the original proposal.  The titles are just fluff.  Besides, since when have we been marketing savvy?  We still have a "Non-Member Fee" instead of a "Member Discount," which any marketing guy would have switched years ago.  No matter.  The sports just seems to keep growing no matter what we do.  Maybe the game is just that good.

The Non-Member Fee will probably be a bigger deal anyway.  I can't see very many players quitting over the new divisions regardless of what they are called.  I can see people staying home over the $10.00.

[skipache]

i think expert is going to be a pretty small division next year, i mean many of the regular illinois players that are over 935 have in some form "moved up"

[Bruce Brakel]

Expert no longer exists.  Its Adv, Int, Rec and Nov now.  But we're going with Am 1, Am 2, Am 3, and Am 4, since our TDs are easily confused and old enough to remember when Novice was Am 3.

In order for an Am 1 to win the points obelisk they will have to play Worlds, Am Nats, Bowling Green and a bunch of A-NTs that don't offer lower divisions.  Otherwise, the obelisk will be won by an Am 2 who just plays a lot of tournaments. 

[skipache]

so now adv is over 935?

[pickax]

Yup. If you are rated 935 or higher, you must play advanced (or pro).

[smyith]

One factor that i think is being missed here is pace of game. in the current system pro/adv play realitively faster tham AM2> divisions. If u add AM4 to saturday u will severly slow the pace down and create bunch ups on the harder holes. NO ONE LIKES A TOURNAMENT FILLED WITH CONSTANT WAITING AROUND.
Also, the problem with ams not moving up isnt divisions. its motivation. If pro divisions had more money add to them and the game reched higher limits of popularity more people will want to join and excel to the top. since ive been following the pdga strategys i am disappointed and amazed at the stupidity of it. The main goal should be elevating the popularity of the sport in the mainstream. Thats what brings players and money to the sport. Not only will it bring more players but also force the need for more courses. THIS GAME MUST GET ON MAINSTREAM TV TO GO ANYWHERE. Instead year after year they do nothing but make stupid videos of highlights that resemble what a stoner or drunk would do. Its disappionting and makes question why i joined such an ass-backwards association. sorry for the rant.

[stpitner]

Just out of curiosity, why do you think AM4 players are slower than others?  Because we suck so much?  Sure an AM4 might have to make a few extra throws or something, but it's not like we take any extra time lining up a shot to knock it in.

How long does a round normally take on a Saturday this year?  Probably about 3 hours?  That's the amount of time it takes for a Sunday.

Completely ridiculous argument that Am4 would slow things down.  We're not stupid.

[Bruce Brakel]

Since I have been at every IOS tournament since the beginning of time, and many split-weekend MDGO tournaments before that [Yes, the MDGO began even before the beginning of time.  It was the series they played in Valhalla.]  I can say for a fact that Am 2s and Am 3s do not play slower than Am 1s and Open Pros.  If anything, they play faster.  Juniors, grandmasters, women and individual players sometimes play slower.  Those divisions are all on the same day.  

The IOSeries won't be on mainstream TV next year, as far as I know.  

[Chainmeister]

Scott

I hate to say it but he has a point.  We make more throws.  On the same course in the same round we are likely to take 10 more throws if we are having a good round, 15-20 on an average round and more if its just one of those days.  On an AM 4 card there is more likely to be at least one player with a lost disc or a nightmare hole.  I am not offended.  Am 4 cards on the course with the pros will likely lead to a backup.  This is especially true since I am advocating playing the same course--ie. longs as everybody else on the course.  The only thing quicker about an Am 4 player is that it takes less time to walk to where your disc landed.  From the AM 4 standpoint I think rushing to keep up with the pros is a mistake too.  If they are in a hurry they can wait.  I am going to take my time and hit the chains rather than rush under the glaring eyes of the pros and hit the rim.   I agree with Bruce that Am 2's and 3's likely play as fast or faster than pros.  If they slowed down perhaps they could become pros.

If that presents a natural conflict in the order of things we will leave it to the wise ones to figure out whether its worth mixing the cheetahs and the slower beasts simply in order to get more people to the zoo.

[Chainmeister]

The IOSeries won't be on mainstream TV next year, as far as I know.  

It could work as a reality series like Survivor or Dancing with the Stars.  Remember, just because you got the lowest score doesn't mean that you win.  You still have to get audience votes. Team up local players with D list celebreities.  "Barrett missed her putt so she is going to have to rely on teammate, Danny Bonaducci.  Danny is  pulling his  mini out of his pocket, oh, my that's not a mini.  I think we are going to have to go to a commercial.  Put that thing back Danny, for crying out loud, this is network TV!"  "David Carradine and his partner KVN are doing some tai chi before their round, no, wait a minute, it looks lie they are actually practicing their putting."

[Bruce Brakel]

I've always thought you could do a good Survivor - PDGA Tour reality themed disc golf show.  Start with a dozen wanna-be touring pros.  The four highest cashing get to eat and sleep on the bus.  The rest are outside in tents.  Non-cashing players are subject to being kicked off the bus.  At the end of the season the four guys left play some kind of show down match and the winner gets the bus and sufficient cash to cover the income tax consequences. 

You've got constant product placement for some RV manufacturer as a sponsor. 

[Disc Golf Live]

From the Small World Department...

I'm editing a piece called "Don't Be Last" as we speak.  It fell right into place when I showed up in Rock Hill and there was a play-off set for five guys / three spots.  Turned into four guys and three spots, but that's another story.  Naturally, the unique format of the round - trying not to be the worst - suggested the many stupid and inane shows my kids like to watch.  That of course got me thinking that some DG Reality TV would be easy to put together.

I'm not sure if I'm comfortable admitting that Bruce and I landed on the same idea.  An RV crammed with golfers as it rolls out on tour is compelling, albeit silly.  No Cash, No Crash!  Sorry, move along.  Side games galore, best round gets the air mattress that doesn't leak.  How many golfers does it take to change a tire?

I know a guy over at HBO Sports who might just be able to run with the idea somewhere.

Bringing DG to TV, one community station at a time.  Just added: UNC-Charlotte, Ch. 22

Best regards

Joe

[Bruce Brakel]

Joe, I truly appreciate what you do.  If I ever take up watching TV I'll be all over getting your show on my local cable.  Until then, keep up the good work. 

[Disc Golf Live]

Hey, Bruce -  I truly appreciate your support for DG as well.  Thanks goodness Mikey is back to give you some cover

You know, of course, that you don't have to WATCH the show if you submit it to your station.  They just need a resident to give them stuff.  No undercutting of scruples, lowering of morals, or life-style changes necessary.   (You really should see the latest show if you want to assess your form.  Then again, the shots I included of Top Banana were both park jobs (metal on one!) so you probably won't learn anything useful...)

Howsabout asking the various Jr. Girls if anyone wants some DVDs to submit locally?  I don't know if there are some tykes who might want to get involved in promoting locally.  At least they'd get some free DVDs out of the deal.  Ask around when you folks next meet, if you're still getting together.

Joe

[chaos]

I still don't see the point of adding more divisions.WTF lets have 200 divisions so that everyone can play with themselves   LOL.
Seems to be silly , I intened to play pro master next year but if I do I can't see playing in many IOS tournaments because of the small fields . Yes i could play open but everytime I have tries this I have absolutely ZERO fun, and not much of a chance of cashing so why play open??? I don't know its either that or retire from the competitive side of this game again .Sux being and old man on the edge.

[can't putt]

Ironic that you complain about multiple divisions while at the same time establishing the rationale for having them.