Membership Pct

[pickax]

I found it rather interesting that at Channahon the Recreational division was composed of 7 PDGA members and 35 non members. The previous Sunday at Aurora there were 22 PDGA members and 14 non members in the same division. Now four of those non-members in the Rec division at Channy played  intermediate at the IOS (two by choice, two by calcd rating), but it still doesn't account for the huge difference in the ratio of members to non-members. Is it purely the result of the IOS making sure non-members play in the correct division, or is it something else?


Just thinking aloud...

[Bruce Brakel]

Part of it is that we have not had much unsanctioned disc golf for the lower divisions in IOS country, and we have had a lot of sanctioned tournaments for lower division players.  We have created a PDGA culture.  It used to be in the I-80 corridor the lower day was always unsanctioned, so they have a different culture.  There might also be a broader sociological thing going on that I could not discuss in a nonpejorative manner.  Dan could explain that succinctly.   

[Mukey]

I hate non-PDGA culture.

Example: Practicing for the 2nd round, I'm throwing multiple shots and end up leaving a disc. Didn't realize until the 2 minute warning and it was too late to go back to try & retrieve it. It was in the fairway and pink, couldn't miss it. I'm figuring it'll show up at tourney central after the round....nope. At an IOS, it would've made it's way back to me.

[stpitner]

those pinkies are not treating you well lately Mukey!

almost wish you could make a PDGA members only Rec and a whole separate division for non-pdga members so that they can all duke it out with one another.

[pickax]

You can. There is nothing in either of the rules books or sanctioning agreements preventing a TD from telling non-PDGA members, "You can play the top level division or play trophy only."

[Jon Brakel]

I think a good amount of that is that the IOS has been offering sanctioned tournaments for lower divisions (all divisions, really) since 2003 and Gary just started to offer them in 2006, I think.

I had several very hate filled e-mails at the beginning of the IOS telling me that we should run our tournaments just like Gary does because he's been doing it for so long. However, when Brett, Bruce and I started talking about what we wanted to do with the IO that then became the IOS we all agreed that offering all divisions as sanctioned events was one of the things we wanted to do.

It has worked with great success and in the beginning we were seeing an overwhelming majority of lower players were not members. If you build it, they will come...

[CEValkyrie]

I think there are several factors.

#1. The local player base around here promotes the PDGA and ecourages people to join the PDGA. A big part of that is an organized club and most are actively on the internet.. Having a $5.00 discount helps. I've told many players at league and tournaments to join the PDGA. There are many guys doing the same thing.

#2 A lot of the lower division players at the IOS seem to be traveling to many of the local Chicago Suburb tournaments so it's worth it to join.

#3 There are quite a few guys that are playing all the IOS events so it's worth it to join.

[ChrisPUTTS]

From a non-PDGA member i understand the benefits and advantages of joining the PDGA.  I intend to, but money is tight.  I just started playing DG this june, but intend on making the IOS a regular event for me in the future.  The $5.00 will add up.  This game is great, even at mid-level rec play...

[CEValkyrie]

From a non-PDGA member i understand the benefits and advantages of joining the PDGA.  I intend to, but money is tight.  I just started playing DG this june, but intend on making the IOS a regular event for me in the future.  The $5.00 will add up.  This game is great, even at mid-level rec play...

This is the best time of year to join if you plan on playing more events this year. You get the rest of the year & all 2008. You can send a check & save $5.00 or join online at the store & save a few dollars.

[pickax]

Plus that $5 may be more next year. I know they have been talking about it, but I don't know if they have decided to do it yet.

[Jon Brakel]

You can. There is nothing in either of the rules books or sanctioning agreements preventing a TD from telling non-PDGA members, "You can play the top level division or play trophy only."

That would be an interesting idea...

[DiscCrazy]

You can. There is nothing in either of the rules books or sanctioning agreements preventing a TD from telling non-PDGA members, "You can play the top level division or play trophy only."

That would be an interesting idea...

As a newbie to the area I that this would be cool for at least one tournament. I always seem to come in at the bottom of the payout or miss it by one or two in any tournament I play in. And there are always three or four guys ahead of me that are not PDGA members. I think this would be good so the ones that are paying the money to be a PDGA member and coming out to ten or so tournaments don't get bumped down in the payouts or even all the way out of the payouts, by those who only play in one or two sanctioned tournaments a year and don't join the PDGA. It sound like a good idea to me at least.

[Bruce Brakel]

There was not any blatant non-member bagging at the Aurora IOS.  In Rec an 857 rated player came in second by one throw to a non-member.  They both had one rec rated round and one advanced rated round, which is typical for the winner in Rec.  In Intermediate a PDGA member won. 

I really don't like the idea of making non-members play in the highest division because I think that would inhibit growth in attendance.  But I do like the idea of paying attention and letting non-members know when it is time they have to move up for IOS tournaments. 

[Fox Metro Discer]

Also, you add in the fact that most of the non-PDGA members playing tournaments are beginners to organized disc golf (except the Esquivel family), it is only natural for them to want to try out their first few at the rec level. How better to get people to come back for more organized golf then to give them a shot at getting into cash at their first few tournaments.

And as stated above, the players in the REC division and TDs at the IOS tournaments know when somemone is "sandbagging" and from my experience, most who become a "sandbagger" in the REC division usually will move up when others let them know. Not to mention the GURU's at IOS Central have that wonderful Tyler W. to always calculate those rounds to prevent that from happening, anyways.

[stpitner]

I think there's two different situations to analyze here:
1) A single day tournament
2) A series of tournaments like the IOS.

With the IOS, you have a chance of letting a person play in Rec, they do great, then you can say "ok, now you need to move up for the next IOS", and the impact is not as great.  For the single day tournaments, unless you're tracking all of the surrounding area local tournaments, you don't have a "ok, we'll get you moved up next time" because there is no next time until perhaps next year (if that).

Perhaps you could use Bruce's idea of "half-in" for the payouts on non-pdga members.  That would certainly be incentive to join the PDGA!

Unfortunately, I don't think you could ever completely avoid bagging because even if you restrict a division to PDGA-members only, you'll still get someone that just joined that is unrated and won't be positioned properly until after they get some sanctioned rounds in.

[stpitner]

One other thought - I've loved AM IV this year so far because everyone that plays in it already has a pre-established rating of 835 or lower.  With the new Enthusiast division next year the possibility of bagging is going to come back with an even easier field to whump on unfortunately.

[pickax]

AMIV has an upper limit of 850 next year. Get that drive of yours 6" higher and you'll be there.

[Jon Brakel]

AMIV has an upper limit of 850 next year. Get that drive of yours 6" higher and you'll be there.

Yes, but what Pitner is saying is that since it is no longer a shadow division it is also no longer protected from unrated/non-member players. I would be in favor of protecting the lower divisions by making non-pdga members play trophy only but I am only one vote in the IOS consortium. Let your voice be heard now if you support this idea.

[Mukey]

Unfortunately, I don't think you could ever completely avoid bagging because even if you restrict a division to PDGA-members only, you'll still get someone that just joined that is unrated and won't be positioned properly until after they get some sanctioned rounds in.

Don't know if it's still that way, but when Mid-Nationals was at Highbridge as an X-Tier you had to have a certain amount of rated rounds in order to participate. not saying to run the IOS that way, just an idea.

Yes, but what Pitner is saying is that since it is no longer a shadow division it is also no longer protected from unrated/non-member players. I would be in favor of protecting the lower divisions by making non-pdga members play trophy only but I am only one vote in the IOS consortium. Let your voice be heard now if you support this idea.

I'd support non-PDGA members being restriced to Trophy Only

[Jon Brakel]

Unfortunately, I don't think you could ever completely avoid bagging because even if you restrict a division to PDGA-members only, you'll still get someone that just joined that is unrated and won't be positioned properly until after they get some sanctioned rounds in.

Don't know if it's still that way, but when Mid-Nationals was at Highbridge as an X-Tier you had to have a certain amount of rated rounds in order to participate. not saying to run the IOS that way, just an idea.

Yes, but what Pitner is saying is that since it is no longer a shadow division it is also no longer protected from unrated/non-member players. I would be in favor of protecting the lower divisions by making non-pdga members play trophy only but I am only one vote in the IOS consortium. Let your voice be heard now if you support this idea.

I'd support non-PDGA members being restriced to Trophy Only

Mid-Nationals is unique as it is the only Major that has ratings protected divisions so they kind of had to decide on some standards.