HANDICAPS for Leagues

[CEValkyrie]

What do you guys think about handicaps for double leagues? There have been many conflicts with handicaps for double leagues. What do you guys think?



Personally, I think getting rid of handicaps may make things much simpler. There would be no debates after the round on who & who should not get a handicap. I also think that we have been consistent with what we have done in the past 3 leagues. Today, 4 teams tied for 1st place. Only Jon & Damon got -1 handicap. They ended up finishing 4th anyway.

[mirth]

I think my only problem with handicaps is that many people, especially newcomers, don't know how to classify themselves. In those instances, the current handicap system can end up an advantage for that player because they can (potentially) pick up up to two strokes out of it.



I don't really know if there is a way around that either...

[mirth]

return to topic, please.... maybe start a new thread about the class?

[mirth]

isn't all that stuff on the message board? also, the league results were lost long before the server switch....

[jim]

My 2cents:

Keep things the same for this league.

For next league, lets discuss Damon's idea of ties sharing the points, playing off for money. Kinda rough when one throw determines points AND cash. Not that the current way is bad at all. Everything has been working well overall.

[jim]

I'll give ya 9 strokes and still whoop yo butt!

[jim]

Winter League ends on March 9th.



Spring League starts the next week, March 16th and goes to May 25th. Sundays, 10 weeks.



Singles League goes from May 14th to August 20th. Wednesdays, 10 weeks.



Summer League goes from June 8th to September 14th. Sundays, 15 weeks.



Junior Leagues go from June 14th - August 16th. Saturdays, 10 weeks.



We also need volunteers to help teach a weekly class for which we will be paid. It is through the Waukegan Park District and will be at Bevier on Tuesdays from 6-7pm. Anyone interested in teaching between 5-30 people for 4 weeks (total 4 hours)? Let me know. We would be doing two 4-week sessions: (1) June 10th - July 1st  and  (2) July 15th - August 5th.

This will be discussed at the meeting this Sunday.



Oh, BTW, temp for Channahon Safari is supposed to be high of 26, with mod winds expected.

[jim]

OK, another thing to vote on at Sunday's meeting. If you can't make it, voice your vote here.

My own opinion is that handicaps suck but are necessary. There's been a decent percentage of players I've met over the past few years who would not have started to play at leagues if there wasn't a handicap system or Upper doubles partner to play with. My original idea has been to make sure the club offers something to all types of new or Am players; Junior Leagues and Best Shot Leagues are meant for that. I kinda saw Tourneys and the new Singles League catering more toward the Upper Pool players (no handicaps, long and safari tees). Just my thoughts.....

[jim]

13 was my only Ace at Parkside, in 2001 I think.

Nice job, SithLord!

[CEValkyrie]

I'm all up for discussing handicaps, tie breakers & points. We've modified them after past leagues & I personally think that leagues are more competitive then they have ever been. Each league, the points get tighter & tighter. I really like the point system. The league that we split points ended up with a problem. Jojo would have been very close to Al if all the lower ties would have been resolved. If they would have went in Jojo's favor, he may have beaten Al. I also believe that we've found a formula that has been very successful. Slight modifications would be alright with me but i'm hesitant of making wholesale changes.

     As for the CTP, it is tough when it's a ctp but it's the same for both teams. We've discussed at past meetings & the majority of people chose a CTP rather than a sudden death playoff. You could end up having to play forever. This would be a big problem when we have meetings to follow & some people have other priorities in the afternoon. I've heard of a random draw hole. Before the round a hole #'s are randomly drawn before the round. The team with the best score on that hole would win the round.

[CEValkyrie]

PRO- 0 unless with Junior then -1



ADV- -1 unless 2 advanced players play together then 0. I messed that up yestarday but it did not affect 5th or 6th place. Adv/junior would get -2



AM -2 when playing with another AM.

[CEValkyrie]

I propose this. The winner of the 2002 Autumn League gets -6 handicap every week & everyone else gets 0. At least that way my group would have played even this week.

[CEValkyrie]

busted

[CEValkyrie]

pat,

      i believe you are correct. while running the autumn league, the -1 handicap very rarely came into deciding if a player won a round. i was actually hoping each time that, that i won by 2 strokes so no one could complain about the handicap. i don't know how many times in the past 2 leagues that i thought one group had a great chance to win & another group ended up winning. i think groups are fairly even each week. i'd like to throw out handicaps just to make things simple.

[CEValkyrie]

Jim,

    If you could, please bring the table of results from the Autumn League. It is with all the stats & paperwork that I gave you with all the Autumn League information. It was lost online with the switch of servers.

[CEValkyrie]

thanks mirth,

i forgot about the posts on the autumn league. got it printed, ready to go.

[CEValkyrie]

the more I look at the results of the 10 week autumn league & the 5 weeks of winter league, the more i think handicaps really don't make much of a difference. In those 15 weeks, the handicap has not helped win or lose first place. Only once has it determined 2nd place, & one other time it gave a team a chance to place in a playoff. Other than that it hasn't done a whole lot. Basically it ends up washing out anyway. Shawn, Jim, & Brett recieve 0 every time they play. Everyone else recieves -1. It hasn't made that much of a difference.

[CEValkyrie]

sweet ACE!

[jason]

I think handicaps make the most sense when an am player is asked to move up due to lack of upper level players.  Conversely, an upper pool player asked to move down also can tilt things in their favor once they are matched up with another upper pool player.  However, I also agree with Jon when he says that the best players should win if they're the best.  However, if the best players always win without handicaps, will this keep others coming out or will they give up?  Heck, I don't know for sure what I think about handicaps.  I simply think it needs a lot of discussion at the next meeting.

[shawn]

If everyone shared the points, the four teams would have gotten 4 points each, not 10.