New Course Possibility?

[pearso66]

Quest is looking to put a new Disc Golf course on a local Golf course.  3 Courses we have been in contact with are Hickory Knoll, Pistakee Country Club, and Lakemoor.  We would like to start with 1 and see how it works before adding it into more courses, but the plan is on a 9 hole Golf course, you will have 18 holes of Disc Golf, and for 18 holes, you would have 36.  It would be pay for play, basically you'd pay for 9 holes of golf to get 18 holes. 

We are looking for some feedback on a couple of things.  First, which course would you prefer to have Disc Golf on, or if there is another course in the area that you would prefer, let us know and we can contact them.  Second, one thing that would really help in getting them to accept putting a course on, is if a league could get set up.  Would you be willing to play in a league on a golf course once a week?  Let us know what you think, either on here, or you can email us at Questtech2002@gmail.com.

[Dan Michler]

I would be willing to play a league once per week in the summer if it was on a weeknight and the cost to play 18 holes was ~$15 or less.  Weekends are too filled with tournaments in this area to run a successful league.

[Jon Brakel]

I wonder how two holes of disc golf will flow with regular golf. Flow was always a problem at the Chicago course. Disc golfers take longer to get out of range of drives than balls golfers but then the disc golfers were about 3 times faster putting out.

The disc golfers were always waiting for the ball golfers but on a backup hole the ball golfers would complain or hit into the disc golfers because they were perceived as taking too long.

It worked well playing with my Dad since the hole ratio was one to one. I can't imagine that we'd have much fun playing together when I'm putting out and teeing off twice on each ball golf hole.

[JCthrills]

Go 1 hole per ball golf hole. & maybe get with Bruce for contact info at the Willowbrook ball/disc golf course in Byron, MI.

[DiscCrazy]

I think that 1 hole of disc golf per one hole of ball golf is a little long sometimes. I remember playing at Willowbrook and the holes were 800 to 1000 feet every other hole. It is fun for a few times but not week after week in a league. What would be the price to play if it were a league setting?

[JCthrills]

Yeah I'm a bit biased since I love to just grip it & rip it.

[Jon Brakel]

I can see pros and cons to having two disc golf holes on each ball golf hole. In playing the entire course with only disc golfers in your group, your time to play the course will be very similar to the ball golfers.

However, flow on each hole will be radically different from the ball golfer. The average ball golfer isn't going to understand what we are doing and will be reluctant to cooperate.

We are the snow boarder on their ski hill. Willow Stream had more than one ball golfer call the club house to report some crazy guy in the middle of the golf course throwing a frisbee around!

[CEValkyrie]

I have played golf @ Hickory Knoll. I have not seen the other 2.

#1. I am so sick of poorly designed and poorly maintained courses. Disc golf in this area is a joke. If this goes thru please get someone who understands the game and has experience designing disc golf holes.

#2 I think 2 pins on each hole of a 9 hole course could make for a good 18 hole course if designed properly. You'd play 2 9's for a different front & back. If the price is $15 to $20 it could be successful.  When I play fly 18 I expect quite a few par 4's & 5's.

#3 We weeknight league could be successful if times were blocked off for only disc golfers.

[deucemeister]

As much as I respect those who want to expand the sport and add more courses, IMO, a pay for play disc course that costs any more than about $5 probably will not succeed, as one of the big attractions of the sport is the low cost. IIRC, the pay for play fly18 in Chicago is now closed (for good ?) due to lack of play and profit.   The existing hazards for ball golf, other than water, pose no threat to disc golf as it is a different concept; you can pick up the disc and  pivot around to throw; i.e., you don't have to hit it off the ground where it lies, so any lie on any hole is gping to be a good lie. Although I would like to try it some time, throwing long shots on wide open fairways on a regula basis doesn't attract me.  I have been playing competitive golf since age 7 and would rather be out in the woods than on a country club when it comes to disc..  John Houck, an old friend from when I lived in Tejas, opened 2 dedicated pay 4 play disc golf venues in the hill country outside of Austin, and while they were popular when new, those courses don't get much play anymore since there are so many free courses in the area.. 

[Mike Clark]

Well they at least have been introduced to Disc Golf. I contacted both Lakemoor and Hickory Knoll last year. If you want more details you can PM me here.

The following is just IMO.

1. The course would have to play with the flow of ball golf. If you are going to install on a 9 hole course you would need 2 tee pads and 2 baskets per hole. 1 set for the front 9 and 1 set for the back 9. And play the course twice to get 18 holes.

2. The Chicago Fly 18 course is a realy poor example of Disc Golf on a Ball Golf course.

3. If designed properly, on scale with Ball Golf, speed of play is not a problem for Ball Golfers. Disc Golfers should be waiting on Ball Golfers. We play faster.

4. I really do not think people would lose interest in a Pay2Play in Northern Illinois any time soon. Free courses, in Northern Illinois, should be no compeition to a properly designed course. With the current crowd playing disc in our area a Pay2Play can thrive. Just have to find the right piece of property.

5. $5 is way too low. It needs to be at least 10$+cart. Would be more on the weekends cause the most courses are packed on the weekends and we would more than likley have to pay full fee just to get a tee time before twilight rates kicked in. The cost of land is just way too costly in our area.

6. Hickory Knoll , Pistakee, and Renwood would be the best options in our area. Lakemoor is long and wide open. If you could do some serious work and cut into the surrounding woods to make tee and greens that would make it alot more viable. They are also building houses along the Lakemoor course. If houses boarding the property is not an issue, personally I am torn on this, Antioch is also a nice option. The Wilmot Mountain Ski Hill, I think it is a hill, would also be very cool as it would be a course with great elevation which is something that would be completly unique to the entire area. I beilive Wilmot has been contacted in the past as well. But not by me.

7. Once a week leagues are key to this working. It has already been stated but it would have to be on a weekday, too many tournaments on weekends. And weekends our golf courses busy times it would be really hard and expensive to get tee times.

Good luck! It would be awesome to see a decent course in our area. It gets really depressing to come home from traveling, and playing really nice courses, to play disc golf in Northen Illinois.

[roman]

Wilmot doesn't have any trees to make for exciting courses. There will be elevation change, yes, but it will all be open holes.

[Jon Brakel]

The Ball Golf course in Chicago is closed because the management could not stand to work with Reese. They took their option to get out of business with Reese. They thought they had good reason to terminate the contract and to void Reese's non-compete clause but decided to keep baskets out until after their non-compete expires.

Disc golf was very profitable in Chicago even though the course was not designed as best as it could have been, didn't have signage and didn't have decent score cards. There's a bunch of us that are willing to pay $20 per round a few times a month to get off the local over crowded free courses.

[Bruce Brakel]

Pay to play will be successful in relationship to supply and demand.  Tournaments, after all, are pay to play, and we were pretty successful last weekend.  In areas where courses are overcrowded with mobs of chuckers, pay to play will be very successful.  Pay to play was so successful at Hudson Mills this year that the whole Metropark system will be adopting it next year for all five of their courses, and they are thinking seriously about adding new courses.  There are plenty of players who don't want to wait behind a 12-some or deal with unruly mobs of youts.  They'll pay to play a well designed course if the price to play is keeping the riff-raff off. 

Most golf courses do not make for good disc golf.  They are too open and too long.  The golf courses that have the terrain, hole separation and mature trees to make for good disc golf usually have the elements to make for good golf and don't need players playing some other game on the property. 

Everyone thinks they know how to design a good course.  They don't.  Every course design can be improved.  Most course designs should have been thrown out entirely.  But on a golf and disc golf course, course design comes down to tee and basket placement.  The course routing is already decided for you.  You'd do well to involve a lot of experienced disc golfers in your course design, including some forehand throwers and some lefties. 

If you can get a course owners to the curious stage, what will sell them is a well attended tournament in October when the golf season is done.  Followed by a well attended ice bowl.  Followed by a change in ownership.  Followed by another well attended fall tournament.  Followed by another well attended ice bowl.  Followed by another change in ownership!  Willow Brook has been a journey.  They have permanent baskets in the ground.  Now all we have to do is convince the management to let disc golfers on the course to use them!  If you think golfers are nuts, try dealing with owners and managers. 

[deucemeister]

 I've played disc on a golf course (in Texas) and found it's just not a lot of fun or a real challenge; I will say it is fun to crank out some long rollers down a smooth fairway, but trees are THE  disc golf obstacles and there are  few if any on a golf course fairway; (rough, bunkers, sand, sidehill, downhill lies are not, since you pick the disc up and can pivot around)   A course with  just wide open long shots doesn't attract my interest, but to each his own..    I also carry my clubs when I golf; walking the course is how you experience it fully, stay loose, and gain from the walking exercise, so riding a cart for toting a bag of discs is sort of a joke...
   Please correct me if I am wrong, but the N. burbs don't seem to have the variety and selection of  disc courses we have iin the SW burbs  I played at Fairfield  2 weeks ago; a few nice but mostly short wooded holes and  some long shots but overall  too many easy, wide open shots;  crowded, and more than once players who looked experienced threw into us (I loudly warned them never to do that again) we also picked up dozens of empty beer cans all over the course;  strange as trash cans were right there to throw them into rather than littering the course.    
   Mokena (27 holes), Highland Park (Joliet), Channahon, West Park (24 holes and oldest continuously operated disc golf course in the world) are all great free courses in the SW area.   Also Shorewood, Oswego and Aurora are fairly decent tracts.   For the best disc golf  in the Chicago area, I'll be traveling regularly to Highland Park, Joliet when they get the baskets in shortly.

[Jon Brakel]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but the N. burbs don't seem to have the variety and selection of  disc courses we have iin the SW burbs  I played at Fairfield  2 weeks ago; a few nice but mostly short wooded holes and  some long shots but overall  too many easy, wide open shots;  crowded, and more than once players who looked experienced threw into us (I loudly warned them never to do that again) we also picked up dozens of empty beer cans all over the course;  strange as trash cans were right there to throw them into rather than littering the course.

It's not for lack of effort. We have some of the most dedicated people up here trying to get courses onto good land.

The problem with Fairfield and the trash is that the cans aren't picked up often enough and the raccoons tip the cans over every night. That was the reason given to Brett and I when we first started working with the PD in Round Lake.

All of the courses up here are crowded and you have lots of rude behavior on the course. All the more reason why I'm willing to spend money to play.

[DiscGolfSchodt]

I've played disc on a golf course (in Texas) and found it's just not a lot of fun or a real challenge; I will say it is fun to crank out some long rollers down a smooth fairway, but trees are THE  disc golf obstacles and there are  few if any on a golf course fairway; (rough, bunkers, sand, sidehill, downhill lies are not, since you pick the disc up and can pivot around)   A course with  just wide open long shots doesn't attract my interest, but to each his own..    I also carry my clubs when I golf; walking the course is how you experience it fully, stay loose, and gain from the walking exercise, so riding a cart for toting a bag of discs is sort of a joke...

Why would you need to use the fairway of the golf course? All the courses I have seen in the area have tree lined fairways. I'm sure there would need to be a few open holes but I think there is enough trees to make a good course, for sure better than anything we have in Lake County now plus no chuckers. I think it's a great idea and I would go at least 3 times per month.

[deucemeister]

Yeah, that would be the way to go if it could be done; the golf course I played was in a disc versus ball golf challenge and we teed off on the same tees and they placed baskets next to the greens.     
  From what is sounds like, the N burbs needs a good course, and if a pay 4 play keeps the beer can littering dirtbags away, all the better.

[can't putt]

[drift]

...unruly mobs of youts. 

"My Cousin Vinny" 
[/drift]