Brett Favre

[jasonc]

I will certainly argue that Elway was a better QB later in his career.  Over time, he learned how to win big games.  He proved it with 2 Super Bowl Championships.  People don't remember how many rushing yards Walter Payton had back in 1979.  But we all remember that he helped the Bears win a Super Bowl in 1985. 

I strongly disagree with these statements about Elway and Payton.  People actually do remember Payton's seasons from 1977-1984.  They made him a hall-of-famer, one of the greatest RB's of all-time, and the career leader in rushing yards at the time of his retirement.  He would be in the HOF regardless of whether the Bears won in 1985.  My most impressive memories of Elway are from the late 80's and early 90's.  Not the guy who moved around the field gingerly behind one of the most dominate offensive lines and running games in NFL history on the way to 2 Super Bowls in his late 30's.

I 100% aree with Dan.  Elway will be remembered as the guy who could throw a ball through a wall and hit the head of a pin at the same time.  I think your age shows withthe  Payton comment.  He is remembered much more for being a complete football player who trained by running up hills and who ran for 275 yards against the Vikings.  The Super Bowl Payton was merely great and was nothing compared with the Football Imortal who played in the late 70's and early 80's. That Payton was the best player at just about every postion on his team including kicker, quarterback and lineman.

My age?  At 32 years young, I certainly remember sitting in section 17, row 25, seat 8 of the old Soldier Field.  My family has held season tickets since the Bears played at Wrigley.  I have seen plenty of good Bears teams over the years.  The '85 season and the 2 playoff game shut out victories were a ton of fun.  I begged and pleaded my parents to take me to New Orleans.  I had a hard time understanding why we went to all of the other games but could not make a special trip for the big game.  I also clearly remember the Fog Bowl against the Eagles.  We could barely see the players and coaches on the sideline. 

I remember Payton for being the ultimate team player who would do anything for his team to win a game.  His attitude and will to win was amazing.  At the end of the day, all of us remember exactly what we want to remember.  I prefer to remember the winning seasons while trying to forget about most games A.D. (After Ditka)

Y'all can keep on discussing the individual stats and how those numbers may or may not impact any given team.  That crap is for baseball.  Winning games and especially the Super Bowl is the only thing that really matters in football.  Marino is an excellent case in point.  He is not remembered for being a great QB.  He is remembered for being a great QB that never won a Super Bowl...and for making some great Isotoner commercials.    Just ask him if he would trade in his HOF plaque for a Super Bowl ring. 

[Tom McManus]

Y'all can keep on discussing the individual stats and how those numbers may or may not impact any given team.  That crap is for baseball.  Winning games and especially the Super Bowl is the only thing that really matters in football.  Marino is an excellent case in point.  He is not remembered for being a great QB.  He is remembered for being a great QB that never won a Super Bowl...and for making some great Isotoner commercials.    Just ask him if he would trade in his HOF plaque for a Super Bowl ring. 

I disagree strongly regarding the Super Bowl the only sport that championships make a true difference in defining a player's legacy is the NBA. The NFL is completely team/coach driven. Everyone always points to Marino that he didn't win a championship, how would it have been different if Montanna hadn't gone to the 49ers with Bill Walsh? Marino is not any less of a quarterback because he didn't win a championship. If that is your criteria than Starr should be #1 with 5 NFL championships. Here is a list of stats for running backs (which you love):
                              

Player	LL TDs	LL Yards	LL Attempts	LL yards per game	Career Yards rank	Career Attempts ranked	Career Avg Per Carry	Years
Jim Brown	5	7	6	8	9	24	5.2	9
Emmitt Smith	3	4	3	3	2	1	4.2	15
Barry Sanders	1	4	0	4	1	5	5.0	10
Walter Payton	1	1	4	1	3	2	4.4	13
OJ Simpson	2	4	3	3	18	23	4.7	11
Earl Campbell	2	3	1	3	29	28	4.3	9
Eric Dickerson	1	4	3	5	6	9	4.4	11

This is my list of the top running backs and a few key stats. I looked at durability, the ability to score touchdowns, the production against their present day competition, their place in history, and the eye test. Emmitt's stats are very impressive when stacked up against the other greats. After looking closer at the stats I had to move him up on my list. Even with his 3 Super Bowls, I would not place him ahead of Jim Brown.

[Dan Michler]

Just ask him if he would trade in his HOF plaque for a Super Bowl ring. 

Charles Barkley (generally considered one of the top 3 power forwards in NBA history despite not winning a title) answered a similar type question when asked if he would trade his career with Robert Horry's (a key role player for 7 NBA titles).  His answer, "Hell no!".  You work hard your whole life to become the best individual player you can be, not to float around and end up on a team that happens to win championships.  This is true in any sport.  Dan Marino worked to become one of the greatest QB's of all-time and achieved that.  If you think he'd actually trade his career for Trent Dilfer's because Dilfer was on a Super Bowl winner, you are nuts!

I agree somewhat with Tom's statement about the NBA.  I think Bill Simmons' "The Book of Basketball" broke this argument down the best in his chapter on Bill Russell vs. Wilt Chamberlain.  On a sidenote for anybody that really likes the NBA, this book is awesome.

[Dan Michler]

Back to Favre for a moment (although I've enjoyed the drift on this thread):

The current situation with Jeter and the Yanks is starting to remind me of the Favre/Packers drama.  Jeter appears to be thinking that the team owes him something.  It will be interesting to watch this play out.  If he really plans on playing until he's 42 years old, he's going to have to do it somewhere else.  The Yankees need to win every year and can't afford to start a below average 40 yr old SS when they have the capabilty of going out and buying a Hanley Ramirez.

[Tom McManus]

Back to Favre for a moment (although I've enjoyed the drift on this thread):

The current situation with Jeter and the Yanks is starting to remind me of the Favre/Packers drama.  Jeter appears to be thinking that the team owes him something.  It will be interesting to watch this play out.  If he really plans on playing until he's 42 years old, he's going to have to do it somewhere else.  The Yankees need to win every year and can't afford to start a below average 40 yr old SS when they have the capability of going out and buying a Hanley Ramirez.

Until they got the salary cap figured out the only sport that the players deserved a golden parachute was the NBA. For a long time Jordan wasn't even the highest paid guy in the league and he never complained about it. Of course endorsements more than made up for that, but at the end of his career he got a whopping pay day from the Bulls. Baseball players are so overpaid during the course of their careers, to think that they deserve an additional reward is a joke.

[CEValkyrie]

It looks like Farve may be done after the hit he took.

Don't be a dumb ass and get on here and think the Vikings are better off he's gone. Jackson had a pick 6 and 2 other picks. Adrian Peterson dominated that game.

Other side note. Is Manning the new Farve? 13 picks in the last 5 games.
It just shows how hard it is to play QB when you lose weapons.

[Dan Michler]

Other side note. Is Manning the new Farve? 13 picks in the last 5 games.

Good point.  Manning has been playing terrible, or like Favre, as you put it.

[Tom McManus]

It looks like Farve may be done after the hit he took.

Don't be a dumb ass and get on here and think the Vikings are better off he's gone. Jackson had a pick 6 and 2 other picks. Adrian Peterson dominated that game.

Other side note. Is Manning the new Farve? 13 picks in the last 5 games.
It just shows how hard it is to play QB when you lose weapons.

The NY Giants plane was diverted to Kansas City. Tomorrow's game against the Vikings may be postponed.  Just enough time for Favre to get healthy enough to possibly keep his consecutive streak alive.

[Tom McManus]

Heavy snow causes Metrodome roof to collapse in Minnesota

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/12/winter.weather/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29

[pdga#7648]

Favre said had the game been played today, the streak would of ended??  Cmon DRAMA QUEEN. But I bet 31 hours later he is ready to play in Detroit. 

[discpro99]

Well all great streaks have to come to an end and it looks like Bretts is going to end tonight. I think we have seen the end of the Brett Favre era and its been a pleasure to watch.

[jasonc]

I think his streak will be safe for a while.  New #1 is Peyton Manning at 205.  #2 is Eli Manning at 99.  So Peyton would need almost 6 more seasons.  Should be fun. 

[CEValkyrie]

What an unbelievable streak it was! Just think it started with him completing a pass to himself.

[Mike Clark]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2011/1/13/1932651/brett-favre-sister-brandi-favre-arrested-meth-lab-mississippi

Tough year for Favre. Just keeps getting worse.

[pdga#7648]

Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre officially filed his retirement papers with the NFL, the league confirmed on Monday.

Favre, 41, sat out the season finale because of a concussion and said the game would be his last.

"I know it's time, and that's OK. It is," Favre said after the defeat. "Again, I hold no regrets, and I can't think of too many players offhand that can walk away and say that. Individually and from a team standpoint, it was way more than I ever dreamed of."






Now?  Will he stay gone???

[Steven Jacobs]

Yes, good ridance