How much would you pay?

[duain]

if the course is worth it, i would pay ten to play.

[can't putt]

In no way do I mean to criticize the efforts of various folks in Lake County.  I know an unbelievable amount of time and frustration has gone into attempts to build a great course on county land.  I will point out, however, that none of the seven 18 hole or greater courses within 25 miles of each other in six different communities around Joliet are on state or county land.

I disagree that the future of disc golf is pay to play.  The future of disc golf is grass roots community demand and support, such as exhibited by Fox Valley Metro and Oswego, although pay to play is a viable strategy to partially offset park district costs.  Does anyone know of any pay to play disc golf courses that are economically self supporting?  Any that actually turn a profit?  Based on local club memberships and tournament attendance there are probably 300 or so really avid disc golfers within an hour's drive of Wilmot.  If 2/3 of them buy a $200 season pass, that's only $40k in revenues.  Maybe another $40k in retail sales and vending.  Out of that comes wages, equipment, property taxes, maintenance, security ...
And of course the initial investment, not just in tee pads and baskets but in bathrooms, buildings, parking areas, benches, garbage cans.  What would you anticipate the 5 year RTI to be on a course good enough to attract $200 dollar season memberships?

I could see it working at Wilmot, however, as a summer supplement to their ski business.  The land and facilities are already in place.  This would be an 8 month course, then?

[Sr.]

I voted zero. It opens up a door i wouldnt want to see anyone have to go through in the future. Making a great shot feels good to me no matter what course it is. I'll pay my tournament entry fee to play a nice course and move on. When you pay for places like Lemon Lake you are paying for other services in the Park also.

[roman]

I voted for the "Other" option. Those price points seem fair, but I'm a pretty broke guy right now so the annual membership is a bit steep for me at $200/year, however I think $10/round and $20/day is still doable. My vote would be for the 10/20/100 split

edit - Just read some more of the thread and noticed that this may be located at Wilmot Mountain. At that price they better plant some trees up there! I hold a season pass there so I'm there several times a week all winter long anyway, and I can't see a great disc golf course being there with hardly any trees on the property. Any discounts for season pass holders? 

[JCthrills]

If Im paying $10 or $20 to play a disc course, there better be golf carts/segways or something to make it worth it.  The course could be across the street from my house & I wouldnt buy an annual pass w/o soem benefit aside from a very nice/different course.  $50 for an annual pass is about as high as I would go.  $5 a day if I have to walk it.

[Bruce Brakel]

About half of the good courses in Michigan are nominal pay-to-play, but it is a park entrance fee.  Holly is $20 or $25 a year or about $4 a day.  The metroparks are similarly cheap but might get more expensive. 

[El Mexicano]

I guess it all boils down to the fact that the true difference between disc golfers and ball golfers is that they love the sport enough to pay $50 to $250 per round and not bitch. This is why our sport will go nowhere.  Bunch of stingy folk.

[Mike Clark]

In no way do I mean to criticize the efforts of various folks in Lake County.  I know an unbelievable amount of time and frustration has gone into attempts to build a great course on county land.  I will point out, however, that none of the seven 18 hole or greater courses within 25 miles of each other in six different communities around Joliet are on state or county land.

I disagree that the future of disc golf is pay to play.  The future of disc golf is grass roots community demand and support, such as exhibited by Fox Valley Metro and Oswego, although pay to play is a viable strategy to partially offset park district costs.  Does anyone know of any pay to play disc golf courses that are economically self supporting?  Any that actually turn a profit?  Based on local club memberships and tournament attendance there are probably 300 or so really avid disc golfers within an hour's drive of Wilmot.  If 2/3 of them buy a $200 season pass, that's only $40k in revenues.  Maybe another $40k in retail sales and vending.  Out of that comes wages, equipment, property taxes, maintenance, security ...
And of course the initial investment, not just in tee pads and baskets but in bathrooms, buildings, parking areas, benches, garbage cans.  What would you anticipate the 5 year RTI to be on a course good enough to attract $200 dollar season memberships?

I could see it working at Wilmot, however, as a summer supplement to their ski business.  The land and facilities are already in place.  This would be an 8 month course, then?

It is true that there are good courses in the area. But I am not trying to get a good course installed. I am trying to get 2 great courses installed. Courses on par with some of the best courses I have played have ever played before. I have played some amazing courses across the country. I want something like what I have heard Highbridge, WI is like. That is one course I really want to play. Heck I want courses better than anything I have ever played.

Yes there are sucessfull Pay2Play courses in other parts of the country. Minneapolis area is a good example. Morely Field in San Diego. Some parks around the country are starting to take fees on parking and an added fee for disc golf. The best example I can think of double fees is the metro parks around Detroit. Pay2Play is a new idea to this area for sure. But it can work it just needs player support.

My thought on the season would be Apr-Nov for any part of the course that included the mountain. I am shooting for 27 holes or 2-18 hole courses. I would think that any course that does not involve the mountains could be open in the winter.

Wilmot Mountain owns a lot more land than just the ski hills. I have played on mountain courses before. There is more to worry about when playing on a mountain than trees. Playing on a mountain is a whole new skill set with or without trees. Not to mention how often lift chairs, wires, and poles get in the way. There is a lot of wooded land surrounding the mountain that could be made available.

Just to make things clear. I am just in the process of convincing Wilmot Mountain that they should install a disc golf course or 2 on their property. Nothing I am writing is in anyway a promise or a guarantee of anything that will happen. These are all just ideas that I have thought of. These are all thoughts that have been discussed with a lot of people. I am just trying to get something done because I see a big bright future for this sport. And I am tired of playing great courses when I travel for work then come home to play our courses. The best courses here are just average compared to some of the courses I have played across the country.

[can't putt]

Yes there are sucessfull Pay2Play courses in other parts of the country. Minneapolis area is a good example. Morely Field in San Diego. Some parks around the country are starting to take fees on parking and an added fee for disc golf. The best example I can think of double fees is the metro parks around Detroit. Pay2Play is a new idea to this area for sure. But it can work it just needs player support.

The question was "Does anyone know of any pay to play disc golf courses that are economically self supporting?  Any that actually turn a profit?"  Morely Field is a San Diego City Park.  Your other examples are community or regional parks.  Disc golfers aren't supporting these courses, the community is.  The fees assist, but do not support.

[CEValkyrie]

I voted for the $5 per round/ $10 all day/ $100 per year. I'd rather see the anual fee similar to Token Creek of $40 to $50 per year.

I think pay to play is the way to go. I have yet to play a pay to play park where there is garbage or vandalism. People playing there are making a choice to go play disc golf and seem to respect the game more.

If done properly this could become a destination facility which is located in an excellent location between Chicago and Milwaukee. It could immediately become one of the best facilities in IL. With a pro shop and concessions onsite I think they could make a profit.

[fourstringninja]

Yes there are sucessfull Pay2Play courses in other parts of the country. Minneapolis area is a good example. Morely Field in San Diego. Some parks around the country are starting to take fees on parking and an added fee for disc golf. The best example I can think of double fees is the metro parks around Detroit. Pay2Play is a new idea to this area for sure. But it can work it just needs player support.

My thought on the season would be Apr-Nov for any part of the course that included the mountain. I am shooting for 27 holes or 2-18 hole courses. I would think that any course that does not involve the mountains could be open in the winter.


[/quote]

Blue Ribbon Pines is by far the most beautiful course I have ever played, Justin Trails big brother the most challenging, and Token Creek is my favorite. All of them are all 5 dollars for the day. All of these courses are worth (to me) 10 to play, but I think the reason they don't break that barrier is because they don't want to scare away the more casual players.

I would be sure to make a few visits, for sure, but if I'm going to drive that far, it's going to be hard for me not to make that turn west towards Token Creek.

[jasonc]

i would play at least twice a month & buy a season pass @ $100.  although most do not play winter golf, i'm a fan of the snow!!  for a year round pass, i would pay $200, assuming there are 2 courses.

[CEValkyrie]

I would be sure to make a few visits, for sure, but if I'm going to drive that far, it's going to be hard for me not to make that turn west towards Token Creek.

[/quote]

If this happens and the course is designed properly it has the potential that you won't think twice about driving farther to play Token Creek.

[CEValkyrie]

Make it 10 bucks/round or 50 bucks/year.  If it was in Lake County and within 20 minutes of my house then I'd probably pay 200 bucks.

It's not in Lake County but it's 14 miles from your front door. The way you drive you should be able to get there in 20 minutes  .

[deucemeister]

The course in Minneapolis on the ski hill is not much fun IMO. I'll never play there again; too much up and down climbing with mediocre difficulty, but very nice to have hot food and cold brew at the clubhouse afterwards.  The straight downhill 750 ft shot is fun too !    I also played mountain courses in Missoula, Aspen, and Snowmass and none of them were very spectacular.    I have no problem with pay to play, as any small fee is negligable in comparison to green fees at a golf course, which are upwards min $ 75 - $100 for anything good in this region.  Pay for play also keeps the dirtbags who vandalize and trample small trees to improve their lie off the course.

[JCthrills]

Golf courses have carts. Until disc courses have carts, anything over $5 is too much in my opinion.  The availability of clean restrooms and hot food/drinks is nice though... that makes it worth $5 over $2-$3/day.  $10 if they turn on the ski lifts maybe.  That still will most likely leave you with a good amount of uphill hiking though.

[Mike Clark]

Pay2Play does work if it supported by the players. My goal is to keep a affordable as possible. The people who own the land and provide the service have to decide what is best for them. I have seen it work in other places. I have crunched the numbers. It will work given the correct set of circumstances.

edit - I see this as our best chance to get championship caliber courses in the ground. If players in our area want to play great courses they will support it. If not then I am wrong about the future of disc golf. At least the future of disc golf in Lake County, IL.

Bottom line on course design is that is has to be easy enough for beginners and still challenging for advanced players. These are design concepts of any good golf course. Unless this is a well designed course that can appeal to every type of player it will not work. Wilmot Mountain owns over 300 acres there are almost unlimited possibilities for course designs.

As Brett said I intend it to be a "disc golf destination" not just a course. It is going to be something that people want to drive an hour to play.

Blue Ribbons is on private land.

Highbridge Hills is on private land. If these courses were close to us the dude would be rich by now. Wilmot Mountain could be this good.

Morley Field is on park property but not run by the park. I believe that the land is leased from the park. Not sure on the arrangement. I have never seen a busier disc golf course in my life. That place was packed the 3 days I was there.

[JCthrills]

Bottom line on course design is that is has to be easy enough for beginners and still challenging for advanced players. These are design concepts of any good golf course. Unless this is a well designed course that can appeal to every type of player it will not work. Wilmot Mountain owns over 300 acres there are almost unlimited possibilities for course designs.

As Brett said I intend it to be a "disc golf destination" not just a course. It is going to be something that people want to drive an hour to play.

separate tee pads for pro's/am's is the best way to accomplish this, not just alternate pin placements.  If you build a destination course people will make the drive to play it.  I for one will drive 6 hours for the innaugural tourney   sanctioned of course... with pre-reg.  And yes it will be in INT or above

[Sr.]

Private courses are a different story. I would pay some money to play a private course that provides or a public one like Northwoods. Paying to play a public course would be like paying twice since the Park is already being funded by the taxpayer. It should provide something extra for the extra money their getting. Greed has a tendancy to set in if the public lets it. I have no problem paying $5 for all day like the Northwoods. You get brooms on every hole and a nice bench to sit on with awesome veiws of the woods. You get a pro shop with some of the nicest people you can ever meet. The worst thing that could happen to disc golf would be for greed to set in and everyone has to pay everywhere you go.

[jimklem]

For the most part, I agree with Brett's posts.
Standing Rocks is now PTP. I believe it is $4/day or $25/year.
That is an acceptable (actually GREAT) rate for 27+ holes of extreme disc golf.
Plus, ALL money collected goes back into the course.
Not another nearby course, but THAT course.
I am all for it if that is the case.