How much would you pay?

[Bruce Brakel]

If you want to know what works in privately owned pay to play,

It helps if it is the only course around.  It is hard for the private sector to compete with free courses.  If the disc golf course is the center attraction, that has been successful only in a handful of venues where your disc golfing options were very limited.  I think Dragan Field is privately owned.  Sandy Point is privately owned.

It works if disc golf is an adjunct to whatever else the facility has going on.  Boyne Mountain is booking conferences, seminars, retreats and such all summer long and the course is just another thing besides the tennis courts and golf course and other activities.  Sandy Point has people using the motel who are not there for the disc golf.  They don't have to pay a person to collect disc golf fees.  That person is already there doing other things at the front desk.

It works if it is supported with free labor from the disc golfers who are promoting the project.  Mason County Parks does not spend a dime on their two [three] courses.  The club up there bought the baskets and tees and cuts the grass.  The club collects the fees too.  The land there is owned by the electric company, so it is a public/private/club cooperative thing. 

I think given our current level of player participation, a dog patch golf/disc golf facility is more viable than a ski/disc golf facility.  If the ski resort has a year-round restaurant or bar, though, the ski thing could be viable.  The problem they'll have is the same problem Timber Ridge had.  Not enough players to support a person hanging out there collecting fees. 

We think our courses are crowded because they are crowded when we are there, but they are only crowded weekday evenings and weekend afternoons and evenings.  70 to 80 day light hours a week in the summer time they are almost deserted.  Even on weekends, from sunrise to noon there is not a lot going on at most courses.  When I'm at the the course on Friday before an IOS, our IOS courses are pretty empty until 5:00 or so. 

[Chainmeister]

We think our courses are crowded because they are crowded when we are there, but they are only crowded weekday evenings and weekend afternoons and evenings.  70 to 80 day light hours a week in the summer time they are almost deserted.  Even on weekends, from sunrise to noon there is not a lot going on at most courses.  When I'm at the the course on Friday before an IOS, our IOS courses are pretty empty until 5:00 or so. 

I thought this as well.  However, I recently went to Fairfield in the middle of the day on a weekday. I was surprised at how many people were at the park.

[stpitner]

Maybe I don't recognize the name of the courses - but has anyone mentioned Sandy Point?  How are they successful?  They offer you a place to stay as well as disc golf.  People don't have to go there just for disc golf, but a lot do because it's considered (to some) a destination spot.  If you make the course good enough and enable people to stay there, you're going to get more draw from a larger selection of disc golfers.  I also think that as long as we keep promoting the sport and drawing more people in to play we will be able to expand the base.

I'm ok with different tee pads, but don't make something that should be a "par 72" something that winds up just to be a par 54 because you want to be nice to the low-rated ones (eg. me).  There's a reason that ball golfers talk about their handicap and all that stuff - they can't card a 72 on a great course.  A low-level disc golfer shouldn't either from the pro tees.  That's a mentality that we're not used to in disc golf either I believe.

[can't putt]

I think Sr. was referring to Sandy Point when he mentioned Northwoods.  His description fits, anyway.  Sandy Point is a fairly typical northern WI resort with a very nice disc golf course.  Very nice beach, fishing, boating, etc.  Lodging rates (in season) range from $95 to $350 / night depending on your cabin.  The resort keeps them in business.

I played Highbridge on a very nice August day.  My son and I were the only people there.  We dropped our fee in the jar in the pro shop and played all day without seeing another soul.  I doubt Highbridge takes in enough to pay their property taxes.  If Highbridge were local, I know they wouldn't take in enough to pay their property taxes.  Highbridge is a labor of love, not business.

Blue Ribbon Pines is owned by the Jordan family.  Their business is not disc golf, but is landscaping and sod farming.  The disc golf couse is an aside on land they already owned, it does not have to be self supportive, but is supplemental income to an existing concern.

Wilmot would be in the same boat as Blue Ribbon Pines.  As a supplement to an existing business it could be successful.  As Bruce points out, in Wilmot's case it will depend on if the income is enough to support the required staffing.  At minimum wage in Wisconsin plus employer taxes it cost $90 to staff one person for 12 hours, or $630 for a seven day week.  At $5.00 greens fees, that's 126 golfers per week.  $40,000 installation cost is the equivalent of 8000 additional green fees.  That's an additional 205 green fees / week for a one year pay back given a 9 month season.  Perhaps that one person could run the concession stand as well, but you still need someone to maintain the course and pick up trash.  Don't forget utilities such as electricity and water/sewer.  So yeah, at a place like Wilmot, maybe.  But the future of disc golf?  I just don't see it.  No way could a disc golf course as a self supporting business amortize the cost of property and facilities, cover property taxes and overhead, and still afford a living to the owner.

[fourstringninja]

Blue Ribbon Pines is owned by the Jordan family.  Their business is not disc golf, but is landscaping and sod farming.  The disc golf couse is an aside on land they already owned, it does not have to be self supportive, but is supplemental income to an existing concern.

Wilmot would be in the same boat as Blue Ribbon Pines.  As a supplement to an existing business it could be successful.  As Bruce points out, in Wilmot's case it will depend on if the income is enough to support the required staffing.  At minimum wage in Wisconsin plus employer taxes it cost $90 to staff one person for 12 hours, or $630 for a seven day week.  At $5.00 greens fees, that's 126 golfers per week.  $40,000 installation cost is the equivalent of 8000 additional green fees.  That's an additional 205 green fees / week for a one year pay back given a 9 month season.  Perhaps that one person could run the concession stand as well, but you still need someone to maintain the course and pick up trash.  Don't forget utilities such as electricity and water/sewer.  So yeah, at a place like Wilmot, maybe.  But the future of disc golf?  I just don't see it.  No way could a disc golf course as a self supporting business amortize the cost of property and facilities, cover property taxes and overhead, and still afford a living to the owner.

Last time at the Pines, I noticed two locals upkeeping the baskets as they played a round. Perhaps the labor force is paid in free greens fees for the year?

After that, all you would need is someone running the pro shop.

[Stretch]

I chose the five dollar option. 
I have recently returned from a extended stay in VA where most courses are on park property and have a nominal fee to play. Similar to what was posted earlier in this thread. New Quarters Park was my favorite to play. It had a nice pro shop and benches and trash cans at every hole.  They even offered bug spray free!!!  I  would pay to play if what was offered was worth it.  Even at 10 or more.  I think that is the bottom line. The land owners need to make sure if they move forward, they have to focus on how the course is laid out first.  Pay to play with golf carts could be the future of disc golf. It is up to the land owners to decide if it is worth the financial risk.

I remember when BMX Bike racing was being run at low cost by park districts and freestyling was a few kids in empty swimming pool or ONE quarterpipe. Now BMX racing is in the Olympics  and is there anyone that has not heard of the X-Games?

BRB

[deucemeister]

Pay for play isn't going to make the owner rich for sure; selling discs, concessions, beers, running tourney's etc. will make more $.      I always carry my clubs when I play golf and never choose a cart unless forced to.   I see no future for a pay for play disc course with carts; it is VERY costly to lay cart paths, lease and maintain carts, which is why they often charge $25/round or more to use one at golf courses.  (My grandather was the original EZ-GO dealer in the Chicago region.)  I honestly would  not have any interest in playing disc golf with a cart; plus the course would be boring since you can't go through any woods, up inclines, etc.... How lazy are people getting that they don't want to walk and carry a disc bag ?     Exercise is one of the best benefits of our sport.     

[Stretch]

The golf cart was a joke, sorry you did not get it.

Deucemeister you have heard of X-games right?  I sure hope so, if not check it out online sometime.

BRB