2009 NFL Season

[pdga#7648]

Bears will not win 9 this year. My prediction for the 2009 Bears is...11-5. We'll see who's laughing when I dredge this thread up come January! 

not January yet but I will help you out.... 

what are the bears,,,4-7?

[pdga#7648]

Bears, Chiefs, now Oakland?

don't deserve the playoffs, letting Oakland score on 3 straight 4th quarter posessions 

piss fuckin poor!!

[Dan Michler]

Ben will be back Sunday, and you guys will see for yourselves.


W vs Oakland
W vs Browns
? vs Packers
W vs Ravens
W vs Dolphins

Oh yes.  We saw for ourselves.  A mediocre team that is the 2009 Steelers.  Those were good predictions Doug.

[pdga#7648]

mediocre is giving them credit they dont desrve. that defense is terrible when they need a big stop.

looks like I will have to wait till next year as well 

[CEValkyrie]

Note to the Chicago Bears front office.

Fire this coaching staff! They are phucking terrible. Going for a fake FG in chip shot range then airing out the clock at half? Blown games Home vs PHI at GB, ATL, & SF.

You have not had a 1000+ yd receiver since Marty Booker in 2002.

Forte has rushed for 100 yds once this season.

You better go out and either build a dominating offensive line so we can run or get some weapons at WR that other teams respect to open the run.

[Dan Michler]

Note to the Chicago Bears front office.

Fire this coaching staff! They are phucking terrible. Going for a fake FG in chip shot range then airing out the clock at half? Blown games Home vs PHI at GB, ATL, & SF.

You have not had a 1000+ yd receiver since Marty Booker in 2002.

Forte has rushed for 100 yds once this season.

You better go out and either build a dominating offensive line so we can run or get some weapons at WR that other teams respect to open the run.

Tough to build an offensive line with no 1st or 2nd rd picks.  I think as a fan, you need to lower your expectations for the Bears for the next couple seasons.  Expect no more than 5 wins per season.  Anything better than that is overachieving in my book.  We went to the Super Bowl in 2006, so I feel like we should be thankful.  As a Cubs fan I get pissed when I hear Yankees fans getting upset that they hadn't won a World Series since 2000.  Alot of teams would kill to have made the Super Bowl only 3 years ago (see the Browns, Chiefs, LIONS, etc...).

The message here is...be realistic.  You can't suddenly have an all-star offense because you signed a bigtime QB.  There are 11 players.  I think we have maybe 2 or 3 quality offensive players (Cutler, Olsen, Kreutz).  Not to mention the defense where we're certainly short at a handful of spots.  Its going to take a few years to get this team back into contention.  We are alot closer to the Browns than the Colts.

Starting over with a new coaching staff would certainly be wise.  Unfortunately, I think an even more urgent need is a new front office...but that ain't happening.

[Tom McManus]

But on a Positive note on this season, and being a DIE HARD Steeler fan since 1978, I will dicuss a real teams season.
With the EASIEST schedule in all the NFL(not my rankings)......


1 Sep 10 TEN @ PIT  Heinz Field     
2 Sep 20 PIT @ CHI  Soldier Field 
3 Sep 27 PIT @ CIN  Paul Brown Stadium   
4 Oct 04 SD @ PIT  Heinz Field   
5 Oct 11 PIT @ DET  Ford Field   
6 Oct 18 CLE @ PIT  Heinz Field 
7 Oct 25 MIN @ PIT  Heinz Field   
8 Bye 
9 Nov 09 PIT @ DEN  Invesco Field at Mile High   
10 Nov 15 CIN @ PIT  Heinz Field   
11 Nov 22 PIT @ KC  Arrowhead Stadium 
12 Nov 29 PIT @ BAL  M&T Bank Stadium   
13 Dec 06 OAK @ PIT  Heinz Field   
14 Dec 10 PIT @ CLE  Cleveland Browns Stadium   
15 Dec 20 GB @ PIT  Heinz Field   
16 Dec 27 BAL @ PIT  Heinz Field 
17 Jan 03 PIT @ MIA  Land Shark Stadium


and returning 20-22 starters from a Record 6th Super Bowl Championship, I will be very suprised if this team does not finish at least 12-4, winning the North once again. Picked by many, to return to the Superbowl, but a healthy Brady and the Patriots may have something to say about that.
Looking forward to next Thursday to kick off the season. Then will drive the 3 hours the following week to watch Cutler throw from his backside! OUCH!!

Ha.

[Tom McManus]

I guess it could be worse. I could be a Packers fan. I guess it was the throw back unis for the Bucs.

It turned out to be a motivating loss for the Packers.  At least they were able to bounce back after a big loss.  Having the number one defense is certainly helping out a strong offense.  Donald Driver is the man.

[Tom McManus]

I feel if he practiced, he should have played. He took half of Dixons snaps that week, and  Dixon still took Baltimore to overtime.  a 3rd stringer.

Ben will be back Sunday, and you guys will see for yourselves.


W vs Oakland
W vs Browns
? vs Packers
W vs Ravens
W vs Dolphins


I just don't understand why you 2 want to hate so much?? I can't help it I cheer for winning teams, and you 2 are stuck with Chicago and Detroit. Without the Redwings, when was the last title?? 1984 World Series? Are you even old enough to remeber that Taylor?  Oh I'm sorry, the Pistons did win a couple not to long ago huh? But thats the NBA. Does that really  count? 

Ha Ha.

[Tom McManus]

Maybe the Steelers will get the last laugh over the Packers this year, but to call the Steelers the best team/franchise of all time is just ridiculous.  Look at their record in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and very early 70s.  They had a horrible franchise. They do have the most Superbowl wins, but that doesn't make them the greatest of all time.  It would be nice if you would put that one to bed.

The Packers on the otherhand have won 12 NFL Championships.  It is a long tough NFL season, and there is no way to predict what is going to happen, but right now it is a good time to be a Packer fan.  They could go out and lose the rest of their games, but a couple more wins will get them into the playoffs.  I am hoping their all-star quarterback will not have the December problems that their previous hall of fame quarterback has recently had on the field.

[pdga#7648]

yea, this is the worst tasting crow I have ever ate.

[pdga#7648]

Maybe the Steelers will get the last laugh over the Packers this year, but to call the Steelers the best team/franchise of all time is just ridiculous.  Look at their record in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and very early 70s.  They had a horrible franchise. They do have the most Superbowl wins, but that doesn't make them the greatest of all time.  It would be nice if you would put that one to bed.

Tom, I wont put anything to bed. I could sit here and argue all week on this but I wont do that. I will just throw out a few points here. 1st and foremost, the Packers 12 Championships,,, most came whan it was a 6-12 team league. And the Packers have been around  longer than the Steelers.

But maybe I should just rephrase  what I and alot of others think. Pittsburgh is the Best NFL franchise in Superbowl History. Superbowl Titles is what they play for. And 6 is more than Dallas's and San Francisco's 5.
Arent the Yankees considered the MLB best franchise of all time? Yes, cause of the 27 Titles.
And the Celtics are the best NBA franchise of all time.



Football analysts don't talk about the championships before Superbowl 1.But they do however refer to the Steelers as having the most Superbowl Titles, so I rest my case.
You saying that the most titles don't make them the best ever??
So then what you  are saying is, Ken Climo's world titles don't make him the best disc golfer of all time??
Thats CRAZY!!!   

[Tom McManus]

The Packers were formed in 1919 and joined the NFL in 1921.  No team in NFL history has won more championships than the Packers which has earned Green Bay the moniker, "Titletown USA."  Over the years, the Packers have twice strung together three straight league crowns (1929-31, and 1965-67).  In all, the franchise has claimed a record 12 NFL championships including three Super Bowl titles.

From the NFL Hall of  Fame website.

[pdga#7648]

impressive yes. But 3 is not 6.

Pittsburgh Pirates were formed in 1933, 14 years later than Green Bay, and the Steelers formed in 1940.

[Dan Michler]

I personally hate the Packers and am indifferent about the Steelers.  So, I'll weigh in on this topic, as objectively as I can.

I feel like you need to judge each era separately.  Free agency, salary caps, league expansion, and other rules changes make each era completely different.

The early years of the NFL clearly belonged to the Packers.  You can't really argue that.  They had 9 NFL championships to the Bears 6.  They also had 5 titles in the 60's, completely owning that decade.

Go to the 70's.  4 titltes in 6 years for the Steelers.  The Cowboys had 2 titles and appeared in 6 title games.  I'll give that decade to the Steelers.  The Packers fell off the map in the 70s.

The 80's.  Its all 49ers.  No argument.  4 titles and they began their unreal consistency that lasted for over a decade.

The 90's.  Cowboys had 3 titles in 4 years and lost in the NFC title game to the 49ers in that 4th year.  Clearly Dallas dominated for that 4 year stretch, but didn't do much at the start of the decade or at the end.  You'd have to call them the best team of the 90's, but really after the 49ers run of dominance ended, that was the last time you'll see a franchise display that level of excellence for that long of a period of time.

Now teams can be great for short stretches while they have a core group of players (like the Pats with Brady and the Colts with Manning and the Rams with Warner/Faulk, the Broncos with that offensive line in the late 90's).  But once those players are gone, the franchise often drops of drastically and has to rebuild.

I guess I feel like there is no right answer to this question.  Its all about 'what have you done for me lately'.  Sure, the Packers dominated the 60's, but if you were a Packer fan in the 50's, 70's, or 80's, you probably weren't thinking about how great your franchise was.  The Steelers haven't shown much consistency at all outside of that run in the mid to late 70s.  They were terrible in the 80s and most of the 90s.  They have followed up both of their Super Bowls in the 2000s by failing to make the playoffs the following season.

If I could trade the Bears results for any other team's results in my lifetime, I would go with the 49ers hands down.

What franchise has had the most success overall since the dawn of the NFL?  I guess you'd have to say the Packers.  In the Super Bowl era I'd go with the Dallas Cowboys as the most consistent from start to finish.  I'd rather root for a team that is consistently competitive and near the top of the league on a yearly basis than one that sucks 3 out of 4 years, but on the 4th year they win the Super Bowl.  Hence, I'd say the Packers and Cowboys are the best franchises of alltime.  The Steelers are on the honorable mention list with the 49ers and Giants.

[Tom McManus]

I personally hate the Packers and am indifferent about the Steelers.  So, I'll weigh in on this topic, as objectively as I can.

I feel like you need to judge each era separately.  Free agency, salary caps, league expansion, and other rules changes make each era completely different.

The early years of the NFL clearly belonged to the Packers.  You can't really argue that.  They had 9 NFL championships to the Bears 6.  They also had 5 titles in the 60's, completely owning that decade.

Go to the 70's.  4 titltes in 6 years for the Steelers.  The Cowboys had 2 titles and appeared in 6 title games.  I'll give that decade to the Steelers.  The Packers fell off the map in the 70s.

The 80's.  Its all 49ers.  No argument.  4 titles and they began their unreal consistency that lasted for over a decade.

The 90's.  Cowboys had 3 titles in 4 years and lost in the NFC title game to the 49ers in that 4th year.  Clearly Dallas dominated for that 4 year stretch, but didn't do much at the start of the decade or at the end.  You'd have to call them the best team of the 90's, but really after the 49ers run of dominance ended, that was the last time you'll see a franchise display that level of excellence for that long of a period of time.

Now teams can be great for short stretches while they have a core group of players (like the Pats with Brady and the Colts with Manning and the Rams with Warner/Faulk, the Broncos with that offensive line in the late 90's).  But once those players are gone, the franchise often drops of drastically and has to rebuild.

I guess I feel like there is no right answer to this question.  Its all about 'what have you done for me lately'.  Sure, the Packers dominated the 60's, but if you were a Packer fan in the 50's, 70's, or 80's, you probably weren't thinking about how great your franchise was.  The Steelers haven't shown much consistency at all outside of that run in the mid to late 70s.  They were terrible in the 80s and most of the 90s.  They have followed up both of their Super Bowls in the 2000s by failing to make the playoffs the following season.

If I could trade the Bears results for any other team's results in my lifetime, I would go with the 49ers hands down.

What franchise has had the most success overall since the dawn of the NFL?  I guess you'd have to say the Packers.  In the Super Bowl era I'd go with the Dallas Cowboys as the most consistent from start to finish.  I'd rather root for a team that is consistently competitive and near the top of the league on a yearly basis than one that sucks 3 out of 4 years, but on the 4th year they win the Super Bowl.  Hence, I'd say the Packers and Cowboys are the best franchises of alltime.  The Steelers are on the honorable mention list with the 49ers and Giants.

Nice thoughtful post Dan.  This pretty much sums up the Packers in the seventies and eighties:

Dec. 7, 1980 – Bears 61, Packers 7 (Chicago)
Despite the Bears' thrashing of the Packers, the team was in a foul mood following the game. That's because the Minnesota Vikings defeated Tampa Bay which knocked both Green Bay and Chicago out of the playoff picture.

Bears QB Vince Evans completed 18 of 22 passes for 316 yards and 3 TDs while Hall of Famer Walter Payton rushed for 130 yards and three touchdowns. The Packers were led by Hall of Fame receiver James Lofton who had six catches for 111 yards and scored the team's only TD.

That is when the Bears Packers rivalry was at an all time high. both teams were miserable so the games against each other were the only things to get excited about.  December 7, 1980 was the absolute low point in Packers history.

[damonshort]

1st and foremost, the Packers 12 Championships,,, most came whan it was a 6-12 team league....
Arent the Yankees considered the MLB best franchise of all time? Yes, cause of the 27 Titles.

I'm basically non-committal about football anyhow, definitely a fair-weather Bear fan ('Bear football' is a myth, and they'll never reach any consistency unless the McCaskeys sell the team, and that ain't happening...); but downplaying the # of Packer titles because of the size of the League is a goofy argument. The Yankees won 2/3 of their titles when there were 8-team leagues (maybe less?). And if you want a *really* goofy argument, no team has *lost* anywhere near as many WS as the Yankees.

Of course, at least they got there.... 

Go Saints!! 

[Dan Michler]

Maybe the Steelers will get the last laugh over the Packers this year, but to call the Steelers the best team/franchise of all time is just ridiculous.  Look at their record in the 40s, 50s, 60s, and very early 70s.  They had a horrible franchise. They do have the most Superbowl wins, but that doesn't make them the greatest of all time.  It would be nice if you would put that one to bed.

Tom, I wont put anything to bed. I could sit here and argue all week on this but I wont do that. I will just throw out a few points here. 1st and foremost, the Packers 12 Championships,,, most came whan it was a 6-12 team league. And the Packers have been around  longer than the Steelers.

But maybe I should just rephrase  what I and alot of others think. Pittsburgh is the Best NFL franchise in Superbowl History. Superbowl Titles is what they play for. And 6 is more than Dallas's and San Francisco's 5.
Arent the Yankees considered the MLB best franchise of all time? Yes, cause of the 27 Titles.
And the Celtics are the best NBA franchise of all time.



Football analysts don't talk about the championships before Superbowl 1.But they do however refer to the Steelers as having the most Superbowl Titles, so I rest my case.
You saying that the most titles don't make them the best ever??
So then what you  are saying is, Ken Climo's world titles don't make him the best disc golfer of all time??
Thats CRAZY!!!  

There is a severe lack of logic in these arguments Doug.  'Football analysts don't talk about championships before the Superbowl.....so I rest my case'.  Really? I hope you are never my lawyer if that is what your case is resting on.

As for comparing the Yankees, Celtics, or Ken Climo's dominance to the Steelers; this is only a comparison that a Steeler's fan would make.  I don't believe the general concensus among the football community is that the Steeler's are football's equivalent of the Yankees.  Thats actually pretty laughable in my opinion.  As for Climo or Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus, what makes them so unbelievable to me is not just that they win at the rate they do; its that when they don't win, they are almost ALWAYS right there in contention, giving it a run til the final putt is made.  Nicklaus won 18 majors and was 2nd something like 20+ times.  When Tiger wasn't dropping loads on 20 year old faces last year, he was in the top 10 at every event but the British Open, winning half the time.  Ridiculous.

Do the Steelers compare to this kind of domination?  They have had long droughts where they didn't even smell contention.  And each of their Super Bowl victories this decade were more anamolies than anything, each was followed by a season where they didn't even make the playoffs.  So, no.  They don't stack up with the names you brought up.

Does winning the most titles necessarily equate to being the 'best franchise of all-time'?  Lets say the Cowboys have 5 titles and were atleast in the conference title game for 15 consecutive seasons.  In that time-frame the Steelers have 6 titles and in the other 9 seasons they finished dead last.  Are the Steelers the better franchise?  Obviously this is an extreme case, but I think it illustrates that there has to be some middle ground where 'most titles' doesn't outweigh 'consistently in contention'.

[pdga#7648]

I am so glad for this day to finally come.

Dan, all joking aside, you have really opened my eyes tonight. Your logic about this last day of posting astounded me. You actually dug deep to find this stuff, so at least I know you care about my arguments. That means something.

Opinions come in all shapes and sizes, just like golf discs. I have mine, you guys always want to argue. Why, I don't know?? I did rephrase my statement to say the best NFL franchise in Superbowl history. If you go back 43 years, count the superbowls, and division titles, championship games, then tell me my opinion is wrong. Yes, of course I bleed Black & Gold, but numbers never lie. 6 is always better than 5, other than in golf.

Like I said, I could argue with you guys forever about this, but it wouldn't do any good. You Chicago guys are all to hardheaded.

I will keep quiet about your guys teams for now on on this forum. I seem to have pushed a wrong button, and don't want to upset you guys anymore. Not trying to make enemies here. I will save that for on the golf course. You guys have a nice long winter. Hope to see ya's on the course next spring.

[Tom McManus]

Here is a link to a pretty interesting article.  I thought Dan was wrong on one point, and that was his feeling on the Giants.  But this article has them up pretty high.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2260_A_CHFF_epic:_all-time_franchise_rankings.html