2010 Fox Valley Metro Presents IOS #3 @ Oswego, IL June 5 & 6 - The Oswego Open

[Sr.]

One complaint we hear the most about Eagle Ridge is the shortness of the course. Maybe one of the ways to offset that would be to add some difficulty. That's what 5 and 14 offer. I don't like to use the word dumb for anything in disc golf but if a hole doesn't seem right, comments and suggestions are graciously accepted to make it right. I personally asked 2 pro players a day before the tournament how they thought 5 and 14 would play with the routes offered, both of the players thought 5 and 14 were good but 12 was awful. 14 can be opened up more without removing trees and that should be up for discussion at the next players meeting. I personally think hole 5 is awesome, but that's coming from a bad ams player. All said and done Fox Valley just hopes everyone had a good time.

                                                                         PEACE

[OvEr HaNd AsSaSiN]

Personally i think that eagle ridge was in the best shape i have seen it in. Thanks to everyone that is involved in working on this course. I think hole 5 was fine but 14 was a bit odd, a bigger gap is needed. Also the tall grass on 15 was a good idea but why not make the tall grass ob on 16 also. Any who, good job running the tourney and keep up the good work fox valley.

[tacimala]

Wow I disappear for 10 hours and tons of posts are here. Sr I thought the course was in great shape and I was bummed to hear you that you were unable to play the tourney from literally working too hard. My criticisms on holes 5 and 14 were not from a perspective of insult by any means so I hope it was not taken that way and I apologize for opening pandora's box there. Obviously there is not room for a Toboggan-esque type hole where you have to throw a great drive/upshot followed by another one just to get within 40-50 for a putt for a sweet birdie 3, but when looking at those holes there is not even a good landing zone on 14 without having to make a technical 2nd shot after a great drive. Hole 5 you could lay up to the gap, throw a shot from there and go on, so there is that option there. As we called them on Saturday, there are just unfortunately the "Brett" shots that make it through unintended that create the unintended scoring spread. The deuces I have seen on 5 did not go through the intended gap. Saturday was my first experience with 14 long, andI like Aaron's comment about not every hole under 350 needing to be deuced, but it should be either not possible to deuce and make it a par 4, or deviated in a way that allows for the intended layup, upshot, putt or the risk/reward shot that pushes for a possible stroke saver. Missing the fairway and plowing through trees should not be part of the "reward" side of the equation.

[stpitner]

I think I might enjoy 14 better if I wasn't just trying to shoot to get to 14's short tee pad and then essentially playing the same hole.  So I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of gap opened on the right side for something a little more enticing and a different look entirely.  5 long is completely different in summer than in winter.  there's one little bitty tree in the middle of the fairway that just seems unfair that it's there, but it just makes it a tough hole.

I don't see what the complaint about 12 long is - it's a good hole.  I birdied it the last time I played it by throwing a Roc anny (I'm a leftie) that traveled most of the fairway.  I then drained an 80' hyzer putt (wish I could do that all the time!)  No complaints from me on 12 at all - it's a good challenge

I have told some others in the past that if it was ONLY upper divisions, you could up the OB to make the course even more challenging (some of this might have been OB, but since I didn't play this weekend I don't know).  This list would be in addition to the OB that was already out there.
1: On/Over path OB
2: On/Over Path OB (if you want to go all out, paint an OB line on the forest on the right)
3: Paint an OB line to split 3/9.
8: painted line to make stuff on left OB, forcing you to place it straight out before approach unless you go for the risk/reward shot that won't kick into the stuff on the left.
9: painted line splitting 3/9 and 9/10
10: painted line splitting 9/10 and 10/11
11: painted line splitting 10/11 and 11/15 (or tall grass)
15: painted line splitting 11/15 (or tall grass) and 15/16 (or tall grass)
16: painted line splitting 15/16 (or tall grass) and on/over path

Get out that yellow rope

[OvEr HaNd AsSaSiN]

I would like to see the results from the score cards on holes 5,12, and 14. just curious. what the low score was, high score was, and average score was. PS Sr. your the man but the cubs suck

[pickax]

Taylor, I think the discussion is good. I will be posting hole analysis later once I get the data in. Unfortunately that might be a bit before that's done. I will post it here for those interested.

Responding to some comments on different holes:
5 Long - I've seen a number of discs that miss the intended gap but still manage to make it through. I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about that. I usually play the layup, but of course Saturday messed up my layup shot.

Hole 14 Long needs two technical shots to card the three (and IMO doesn't need to be opened up any more). I'm hoping this comes out as a par 4 when I do the analysis.

Hole 16. I've thought about the tall grass being OB, but in the past the scoring spread was good enough without artificial OB.

I also considered splitting 3/9 at the fairway edge on 9, but the mowing line was wrong for it when I was doing the course routing.

While it is fun to be the evil TD who throws yellow rope or painted lines everywhere, artificial devices generally should only be used when the layout, terrain, and tress can't do it alone.

[pdga#7648]

I would like to see the results from the score cards on holes 5,12, and 14. just curious. what the low score was, high score was, and average score was. PS Sr. your the man but the cubs suck

I took a 3, 2, 4 on those holes from the longs. while the other 2 on my card took 3,4(on 5) 3,4 (on 12) and a 5,7(on 14)

actually threw my orange roc on all 3 tee pads. 12 I peirced the little opening on a straight shot, left me a 10' putt behind the basket.

[Bruce Brakel]

I've never seen the course but I thought Scott's post was interesting.  Very few holes offer only a lefty anhyzer route, and when they do, righties say that the hole needs a fairway.  This is especially true when the route is a lefty anhyzer that cuts right at the end. 

That hole where some players were pitching 50 feet to the short tee with a 90 degree turn in the fairway there reminds me of a hole out at Stoney Creek.  I've seen players do all kinds of crazy stuff trying to get a little (or a lot) more around the corner, and sometimes take an extra stroke for it or sometimes save a stroke.  I like a hole like that.  It gives you an opportunity to think, especially if one guy in the group executes the trick shot that goes around the corner. 

The casual players will rip out bushes and small trees like meth crazed rhinoceruses.  Go easy on on what you take out. 

[Dag]

Hole 14 Long needs two technical shots to card the three (and IMO doesn't need to be opened up any more). I'm hoping this comes out as a par 4 when I do the analysis.

Part of the problem here may be a perceptual one. Having a tee shot for placement shorter than it's following shot t'aint natcheral. I'd be curious to see how many folks had their tee shot go less than 100' or so, intentional or not. I have no problems with that shorty placement shot being valid or not but I simply did not find it to be particularly fun or challenging, this coming from someone that's been accused of being a bit of a masochist when it comes to enjoying technical courses.

My two bits? Open the gap and move the long tee back as far as possible, perhaps just past the crest of the rise up from the walking path.

[damonshort]

$0.02...

5 long could be cleaned up a little but definitely isn't unplayable.

Some sort of route on 14 would be good, even if it's just the brush clearing for the little window on the right.

I don't remember which hole is #12, but I probably screwed that one up too....

[pickax]

Miscellaneous results from this weekend.

The 50/50 winners were John Knudson on Saturday and Kent Hengels on Sunday. Thank you for all that participated in the 50/50 CTP. This raised 127.50 for our concrete fund. Add the late fees in and $282.50 total was raised for the concrete tee fund for Eagle Ridge.

Jason Riley hit an Ace on Hole 3 on Saturday netting him $86. Since no aces were hit on Sunday, $114 rolls over to IOS #4 at Bevier Park on Monday, July 5.

The TD reports have been submitted and the PDGA has been paid so that this will be in the next update on 6/22. Ratings will probably disappear off pdga.com soon and will return 6/22. If you want to see your unofficial rating for your rounds, look now.

[Jon Brakel]

Thanks for the swift reporting Mike. I'm sure people will appreciate this event making the rating update deadline.

[tacimala]

So are the long tees going to be concrete eventually as well then? That would be awesome!

[pickax]

So are the long tees going to be concrete eventually as well then? That would be awesome!

That's the plan. The club is working hard on raising the funds to do so. I'm trying to make sure that they are where we want them from a scoring perspective before they are set in stone (no pun intended).

[pickax]

Here is the hole analysis for the Oswego Open. Included in the first data set are scores recorded from our handicap league over the past month. Only players rated 900 or better are included. From this analysis, it looks like holes 4 and 14 are solid par 4 holes.

I also included a run over the longs between Saturday and Sunday. There is a significant difference between the two days.

I'm also trying to figure out how in the world a player could take a circle 3 on 19.

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[tacimala]

Circle 3 would be OB, retee, "ace"

[Jon Brakel]

Circle 3 would be OB, retee, "ace"

I think that's what we heard when I said to Mike "Was that an ace on 19?" It sounded like an ace and there was lots of whooping afterward.

[Dan Michler]

Does good score separation necessarily equal a good hole?

[Dag]

Interesting stuff. I have a pair of questions regarding the analyses.

- Could you explain the color coding? >70% triggers the red, presumably indicating a hole in need of attention. No idea on yellow.

- On the comparison for longs Sat vs Sun and the hole analysis for holes 13A and 19, why do the data set numbers differ from the actual number of 900+ rated players shown on the PDGA for those days? Where' are the extra numbers coming from?

[Jon Brakel]

Does good score separation necessarily equal a good hole?

In my opinion, no. Chuck Kennedy seems to talk like it is. What I think is that it is one indicator of a good hole. I think lack of score seperation does mean that it is not a good hole. If you set up a giant Plinko board on a fairway with a basket in the middle and threw your disc into the Plinko machine, you'd get a nice spread of results. This would be especially true if some of the Plinko slots put in OB or behind a tree or in the basket. If you have never seen the Plinko board on Price Is Right then this isn't a good analogy. However, there are some holes in disc golf that I've played that have some very random results and when I've played them it reminded me of Plinko. I can think of a tournament where the asphalt path was OB. Not on or over but just the 6 foot wide path. The path ran the length of the hole and was in the landing area for all skills. Unless your drive went into the woods you were going to land within 50 feet of the path. So, the OB was really just random. You threw your disc and hoped for the best.