2011 Grabm Classic

[bThrowinaces]

[dana]

Nice, might have to make this one.  Haven't been to Rockford yet this year.

[damonshort]

anyone know the start times, divisions, entry fees, etc. for this? I couldn't find them on the website.

[duain]

anyone know the start times, divisions, entry fees, etc. for this? I couldn't find them on the website.
[/quote


look here

http://grabm.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=events&action=display&thread=365]

[smyith]

no pre reg?

[smyith]

smooth tournament. you guys are approving on efficiency. however, i am very disappointed there were no players packs (added payout instead), so basically over half the field donated to others payouts. this should have been posted and announced long before the tournament. i would not have drove out there had i known.
i like the new hole #2. the new #14 is not really all too great. it changed a good golf hole in to a deuce hole. the west course is in need of MAJOR tree trimming.
all in all i am disappointed in the lack of information you provide pre tournament and the no players pack is irksome. i am going to be very hesitant to drive out there again for a tournament. 

[duain]

smooth tournament. you guys are approving on efficiency. however, i am very disappointed there were no players packs (added payout instead), so basically over half the field donated to others payouts. this should have been posted and announced long before the tournament. i would not have drove out there had i known.
i like the new hole #2. the new #14 is not really all too great. it changed a good golf hole in to a deuce hole. the west course is in need of MAJOR tree trimming.
all in all i am disappointed in the lack of information you provide pre tournament and the no players pack is irksome. i am going to be very hesitant to drive out there again for a tournament. 

Actually if you join GRABM on Facebook, you would see all this info you state wasn't provided. Hole 14 East isnt new, they just cleared the the path so people could play through it, you are welcome to play it the other way. C-tiers dont require a player pack and most people want better payouts instead. If you go to a tournament just for a players pack, then you go for the wrong reasons. The west course had been trimmed a lot, but with so few people to do such a big area its hard to please everyone. Thanks for coming and join GRABM on facebook so you aren't lacking info.

[DaBus85]

I'm from GRABM and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.  As for the trimming on the west like Duain said we only had so much time.  About a week ago another storm came through and knocked down more trees.  We tried to get to it all but we really didn't have time.  We encourage giving us input on how you think the tourney went.  As for player pack we didn't say there would be one and as previously said it isn't required for a c-tier.  I also agree that more people like the money to go into payouts.  There is no requirement to have added cash for a c-tier.  Our club worked hard to get the course ready for this tourney.  I know what you're saying isn't an "attack" or anything like.  I just wanted to clarify a couple things. Join on facebook and check out our website.  If you have a question please feel free to ask especially on facebook.  We would be happy to answer and you would get an answer in a timely manor.  I hope this helps and we are looking for to hopefully seeing you for upcoming tourneys.  Sorry again for the misunderstanding.   

[smyith]

Actually if you join GRABM on Facebook, you would see all this info you state wasn't provided.

i shouldnt have to join facebook to get tournament info. everything should be posted when its announced. not it random updates and comments on one site. and a link for that one source of up to date info isnt provide.

If you go to a tournament just for a players pack, then you go for the wrong reasons.

whats it matter what i go to a tournament for. and who was ever polled for if they want players packs or increased payout? i dont necessarily care about the players pack, more just not having it posted anywhere (except apparently on an exclusive site) that there wasnt going to be one. i would have made my choice for what division to play in change. i noticed many people bagging and was curious why. much more understandable with this structure and i wouldve done the same.

The west course had been trimmed a lot

ill use one hole as an example, #14

btw, i really liked the temp holes. much more unique and challenging then tourns past. #21 east was sweet.
im not attacking anyone just trying to get the point across that information like that shouldnt be exclusive and should be announced in the flyer.

[Bruce Brakel]

It was a C-tier.  There should be no expectation of a player pack at a C-tier. 

I'm always bewildered that anyone wants a player pack.  All a player pack is, is a forced purchase of merchandise.  "You want to play my tournament?  Then you gotta buy a disc.  It is included in the entry fee."   The other bewildering thing is, if player packs are so awesome why don't pros want them?  When I used to have something to do with the IOSeries, I always used to advertise that if any pro wanted the $10 value player pack, which sometimes was $20 in Discraft merch, they could buy in for one.  One pro used to buy in regularly.  For the ams a player pack is just a forced sale, and sometimes you're forced to buy stuff you have no use for. 

If the payouts are not a big am-scam, I'd much rather have fat payouts for the top 40% than player packs for losers.  That's the other way of looking at it.  Giving out player packs is like paying to last place. 

[DaBus85]

The scores have been posted on the pdga site. http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/73897

[Jon Brakel]

When the PDGA went to mando player packs for B tiers and higher, many players did not want them at all and we did all we could to offer options that would please our B tier am players. Now players have grown up getting player packs and just expect them. How the world changes over time!

[Frolfer88]

Could someone please clarify as to why a 945 rated player was allowed to play intermediate? I thought the cut-off was around 935...

[pdga#7648]

935 and higher is supposed to play Advanced. why they let chuck play Int is a Great question!

[smyith]

It was a C-tier.  There should be no expectation of a player pack at a C-tier. 

i did not know until this tournament that there was no requirement for C tiers. also, the only other tournament ive ever played without a players pack was either doubles or discontinuum invitationals. so i guess ive learned my lesson for the day.

Could someone please clarify as to why a 945 rated player was allowed to play intermediate? I thought the cut-off was around 935...

because this was setup for sandbagging. and they were not checking for current or player ratings during sign up.

[duain]

Could someone please clarify as to why a 945 rated player was allowed to play intermediate? I thought the cut-off was around 935...

because this was setup for sandbagging. and they were not checking for current or player ratings during sign up.
[/quote]

Actually names were checked before hand, didn't you see the person checking the names on a laptop, so your comments are worthless like your attitude. If you look up Chucks name, no rating comes up because he isn't a current PDGA member and you can't see his last rating until you submit the TD report to the PDGA, you would know this if you actually looked.. This tournament wasn't set up for sandbaggers so keep your insults to yourself. You should pay more attention to whats going on instead of looking for things to complain about.

[pickax]

Could someone please clarify as to why a 945 rated player was allowed to play intermediate? I thought the cut-off was around 935...

because this was setup for sandbagging. and they were not checking for current or player ratings during sign up.

Actually names were checked before hand, didn't you see the person checking the names on a laptop, so your comments are worthless like your attitude. If you look up Chucks name, no rating comes up because he isn't a current PDGA member and you can't see his last rating until you submit the TD report to the PDGA, you would know this if you actually looked.. This tournament wasn't set up for sandbaggers so keep your insults to yourself. You should pay more attention to whats going on instead of looking for things to complain about.

I agree the insults are not needed. Checking players who walk up to an event takes work and some planning ahead. Even though he is not current, his rating should have been able to be checked at the registration table. Assuming the PDGA sent the files they usually do, the TD would have had the information to check it. If there was a net connection available (I'm assuming not), a quick google search can reveal a non-current members rating almost all of the time with one query. Most likely this was an oversight by the tournament staff. Conspiracy theories can be left at the door.

Some players have gotten spoiled by events that are extremely well-run and snafus like this (and the fact that this event did not follow 1.9C in the competition manual) can happen. It is best to give feedback to the TDs so that they can do better next time. But jumping all over their back is not the best way to communicate this. Not all TDs have been doing this for very long and many are still learning.

Editted to fix quote markings

[smyith]

because this was setup for sandbagging. and they were not checking for current or player ratings during sign up.

this was not intended as an insult to the tournament staff. first off a tournament set-up with no players pack is going to result in sandbagging. thats just the way it is, whether or not the TD and staff intended it or not. you cant deny that. during the tournament that was discussed by many.
while i was in line at sign up i personally witnessed 2 players say they were non current and werent sure were their rating was. they were told not to worry about it and just pay were they normally would. some people obviously took advantage of that trust. i have been to many tournaments were the TDs have a print out sheet of players current and non current (not just IOS but other states as well). so my statement is not entirely ignorant based on what i saw and know from past experiences.

now as for my attitude, i find it disappointing that any negative criticism given is inferred as offensive automatically. personally based off re-reading my statements i see absolutely nothing that shouldve been taken as insult.

[pickax]

because this was setup for sandbagging.

I believe this statement is what is construed as an insult. I don't know of any TDs that run events for this purpose. Looking at the results, other than the one player who played in the incorrect division, all other players who placed either a) had a rating in the correct division, or b) threw two rounds that are in the normal range for placing in that division. I would hardly consider that sand-bagging.

A C-tier with no player pack is no more attractive for baggers than any other tournament which provides a players pack. Non-local unsanctioned events that provide huge prizes (like a basket) for winners of lower divisions? That's a different story.

[Jon Brakel]

Just posting things like this on a public forum can seem like attacking even if it isn't meant to. A PM or e-mail to the TD (use the link on the PDGA tourney page if you don't know any other) is a better way of communicating your suggestions for making a better tournament. Also instead of suggesting they improve something you accuse them of setting up their tournament for sandbagging. I have no idea why a TD would do that, but that statement comes off as complaining.

A TDs job is difficult as it is. Much better to keep the praises public and the suggestions private. IMHO, of course!