2011 Grabm Classic

[smyith]

Just posting things like this on a public forum can seem like attacking even if it isn't meant to. A PM or e-mail to the TD (use the link on the PDGA tourney page if you don't know any other) is a better way of communicating your suggestions for making a better tournament......
A TDs job is difficult as it is. Much better to keep the praises public and the suggestions private. IMHO, of course! 

Jon,

I understand were you are coming from on that, but its against every fiber of my being to be hush hush about things. stating them loud and publicly is a faster way to move things, it forces the hand to make an action.
what you purpose is the exact style of thinking that has sent this country into the cat liter box. people to afraid to state their opinions, concerns, and fears publicly has allowed for abuse and the powers that be to 'think nothings wrong'. practicing this in any facet just perpetuates the problem.
because of philosophies like this i typically come off as a dick (which i am) but thats not the intended result of my statements. but i relish in the fact that our fore-fathers would be far more proud of the types like me than the willy-nillies who are scared to speak their mind for fear of upsetting someone. weak-minded individuals are the easiest to make into sheep.

*DISCLAIMER*
This is not direct at anyone in particular but a broad statement. I mean no offense to anyone but the general masses as a whole.

i obviously need to work on my encoding and others need to desensitize their decoding.

[Frolfer88]

OK so from what I have gathered, the people checking for current members and ratings messed up and let an advanced player play in a lower division. You can see why some people are upset because first place payout was around $158! I think it is great that the Grabm guys could give out that much with only a $25 entry fee. However you can see why someone would try and sandbag at the same time. Chuck would have also won advanced if he had played in it but the payout was only $131 and it cost $10 more to play. But all that aside, should there be any repercussions? Everyone makes mistakes, so I hope to bring this to Grabm's attention for future tournaments, but Chuck had to have known what his rating was yet he still played in a lower division, is there anything the PDGA has to say about such instances?

[Jon Brakel]

@Smyith, you asked and I gave you my opinion. Many people treat TDs and other tournament staff like they are being paid to do these jobs and that the players are their customer. For all but a few TDs this work is just a volunteer side hobby that we do for fun and the betterment of the sport. If you treat your volunteers like shit they'll stop coming back.

@Frolfer88, the PDGA might consider some kind of sanctioning for intentionally playing out of their division but it is doubtful. Someone would need to officially complain to the PDGA and if it doesn't come from the TD it probably won't be very persuasive. I don't think I've ever seen the PDGA punish a player for playing in the wrong division.

[DaBus85]

The reason payouts were so high is because we got a sponsor to donate 500 for our c-tier.  Most of you know it isn't required to do this for a c-tier so we went above requirements for the players coming to the tourney. I'm sorry that we didn't catch the one guy with the rating above 935 but mistakes happen.  I will make sure to bring this up to our club and td and I'm sure we will get it straightened out. If he would of moved up to advanced the payouts would of been higher in advanced and lower in intermediate.  Again I'm sorry this happened and we will make sure we address this in the future.  I hope to see some of you at the annual GRABM Halloween doubles tourney.  If you have anymore questions please feel free to ask and I will try to get back to you soon

[Frolfer88]

Thank you for the explanation. I understand mistakes happen, and I'm glad that you will discuss it for the next tournament. The added $500 was also great to see for the am division. Thanks again and see you guys in October!

[airspuds]

what you purpose is the exact style of thinking that has sent this country into the cat liter box. people to afraid to state their opinions, concerns, and fears publicly has allowed for abuse and the powers that be to 'think nothings wrong'. practicing this in any facet just perpetuates the problem.
----

sorry had to comment

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the problem is that people feel they can state their opinions in any type of forum like this one with out being held
accountable to what they say
you say you are not complaining but you ARE

you all tend not to practice what you preach no matter what you type
so with that being said > i suggest you all volunteer to work a tournament to see exactly what is involved







rockford guys >>thanks for all the hard work  ,, thread drift city

[Chainmeister]

minor extension of the thread drift as Spuds has raised an interesting issue--

I didn't read anything as saying we should shut up and not air our concerns.  I read Jon's comment as wisely suggesting that the first move to be a PM to the TD.  It may be that the concerrn is addressed or misunderstood.  No firestorm is raised.  If after the PM the commenter feels that something is still amiss he/she can air it out publicly.  I read the comment as a call for the initial communication, especially when it is a complaint, to be addressed directly rather than publicly. 

Let me put it in a White Sox context to make it clearer--
If Ozzie has a problem with a player he should deal with it in the clubhouse before trashing the player at a press conference.

OK- back to the thread.  I'm bummed I couldn't go and play those great courses. Will do so next time!

[Jon Brakel]

The other reasoning is just efficiency of communication. This is not the home of Grabm. They were just advertising their tournament the same as we advertise tournaments on their site and other disc golf club sites. If you post here the TD might not see it any time soon, if ever, but I think most people setup their forum accounts to notify them if they get a PM.

Having said that anyone is free to post up what ever questions they may have about tournaments in the appropriate threads I was just suggesting that there are other ways.

[smyith]

The other reasoning is just efficiency of communication. This is not the home of Grabm. They were just advertising their tournament the same as we advertise tournaments on their site and other disc golf club sites. If you post here the TD might not see it any time soon, if ever, but I think most people setup their forum accounts to notify them if they get a PM.

it wasnt even posted on their own message board....................apparently only mentioned on facebook, which i can not see anyway.

[Case J]

@ smyth: I know you are very opinionated, but when typing things on an online forum it becomes very hard to express tone and true meaning with your posts.  Unlike in real life it is difficult to sense sarcasm and if something said can possibly be perceived in a negative way it likely will be perceived that way by someone.  I noticed you butting heads with people on DGCR too and as a fellow Discontinuum member I urge you to re-read what you post before you hit the Submit button.  Look for ways it can possibly be perceived negatively.  I know your intentions are good, but sometimes your sarcasm and negativity get in the way of what you are trying to say and hinder the impact of your posts.

@ GRABM: Thanks for another good tourney.  I enjoyed myself at the Rockford open as well ad the GRABM Classic.  I also think what was done with #2 and #14 on the east course was a sweet change.  IMO, it changed gimmicky holes into solid tunnel shots that demand execution.  Well done!

[Chainmeister]

Getting back to the disc golf aspect of this thread... Case what were the changes to 2 and 14 on the old, East, course?  I get to Rockford frequently but to Anna Page not nearly enough. I will have to check this out.  Please elaborate on the new holes. 2 used to be a very sharp left turn that was brutal for a soft throwing lefty.  14 had trees on the right and a post in the middle. I recall a canopy but may not be remembering it.  The hole either went straight or sharply to the right after about 150 ft depnding on the basket location. What are they now?

[DaBus85]

I'm confused what "wasn't" posted on GRABM's site??  If you're talking about the tourney it was posted well before the tourney and you posted and asked a question in the thread. (sorry, this is for smyith) here is the link http://grabm.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=events&action=display&thread=365.  As for everyone thanking GRABM you're welcome!! We are happy you had a good time!  Chainmeister hole 2 didn't get a whole lot easier for lefties.  After you are done with hole one you go up the hill to the left and there is a teepad we dug.  It goes through the woods and left at the end and is pretty tight.  Hole 14 is better for lefties.  The area that used to be ob is now not ob.  It's a tunnel shot that's pretty risk reward.  Makes the hole fun!  Hope to see you out there soon and good luck with your next tourney!!

[Case J]

David here is a rough overhead.  Its not the best visual, but I think it will help give you the feel of the new hole.  The red paths are the old layouts, the triangles are the baskets, the green circle (on #2) is the new pad, and the green paths are the new flight lines.  The tunnels are sweet, it looks like the GRABM guys just drove a bulldozer through the tunnels.  I am sure it wasn't that easy though.

[smyith]

@ smyth: I know you are very opinionated, but when typing things on an online forum it becomes very hard to express tone and true meaning with your posts.  Unlike in real life it is difficult to sense sarcasm and if something said can possibly be perceived in a negative way it likely will be perceived that way by someone.  I noticed you butting heads with people on DGCR too and as a fellow Discontinuum member I urge you to re-read what you post before you hit the Submit button.  Look for ways it can possibly be perceived negatively.  I know your intentions are good, but sometimes your sarcasm and negativity get in the way of what you are trying to say and hinder the impact of your posts.

like i said.

i obviously need to work on my encoding and others need to desensitize their decoding.

I'm confused what "wasn't" posted on GRABM's site??

i dont necessarily care about the players pack, more just not having it posted anywhere (except apparently on an exclusive site <facebook>) that there wasnt going to be one.

[DaBus85]

Nice job Case!  I wish we had a bulldozer, but we aren't even allowed to use power tools at the course.  Everything that we do is done by hand tools.  So it's a lot of work but it's worth it. I'm happy to see positive feed back on those holes!