Twin Lakes Park-> Wildwood, IL

[mirth]

Played nine today, there were 4 or 5 other groups out playing at the same time.
WWPD put up a sign on #1's tee post reminding nonresidents of the $1/day rule.
#6 tee completely submerged.
No litter seen, new trash can by #5 basket.

I think that Wildwood could reclaim some of the expense of installing the course by coming up with some sort of season pass... Maybe $40 or $50 upfront & you get a laminated card that doesn't expire till Jan 1. I know I'd pay it, I bet others that live nearby but not in Wildwood would too.

[mirth]

I realise this is last minute, but any disc golfers who are able to attend the wildwood park district meeting please do! The course needs a showing of support tomorrow night.

The meeting is at 7PM, at 33325 Sears Blvd, Wildwood.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searc...&submit=Get+Map

[Myk]

what day is it on?

[jim]

This meeting will start at 7pm at the WPD Hall in Rule Park.
Other items are on the agenda, but the disc golf discussion may dominate the evening. I am told that MANY people will be there (residents), and maybe a person from the press, and that this meeting may go past 10pm.
Please bring a POSITIVE attitude, and solid examples of local benefits disc golf can bring to a community.  This park is in the front yard - IS the front yard - for about a dozen residents. We need to remember that they live there; we just play there.  :-)
I have compiled a decent arsenal of information in infopak, articles, demographics, written testimonials. I have also spoken to several major disc golf personalities and received some good advice.
We also need to respond to their concerns directly about:
-parking
-zoning
-educate the public and help them work through the stereotype of disc golfers being dope-smoking teens with sweaty angst.
-graffiti
-glow rounds
-non-residents paying their $1
-educating the kids in proper play/etiquette
-trash & maintenance

Please dress/act appropriately for this meeting as we need to present ourselves in the best possible light.  Those residents are not the enemy; they are our neighbors.  :-)  THANKS.

[mirth]

what day is it on?

tonight

[mirth]

Tuesday, May 25th @ 7PM will be a special meeting at the Wildwood Park District offices concerning the fate of the disc golf course. The park board seems to want to keep the course as much as is possible, but ultimately if making it go away will create peace among the neighbors then so be it.

PLEASE come out next Tuesday to Rule park on Sears Blvd and show your support for this course!

[jim]

WILDWOOD PLAYERS PLEASE READ:

There have been 7 newspaper articles about the Twin Lakes DGC over the past 3 weeks in various local papers.
Most have been negative. The residents of the small community have been voicing their concerns about:
-vulgar language
-public drinking
-public drug usage
-public urination
-destruction of private property

The Wildwood Park District monthly Board meeting was a hot place to be last night. The residents were pretty reticent about the course being removed because of alleged incidents since its installation. They cited safety as the main issue, but trying to keep the park "private" was a big concern. The park is public, but the residents don't want it that way and will be vocal and active until the disc golf course is altered or removed.

IF YOU PLAY DISC GOLF AT TWIN LAKES PARK, PLEASE BE COURTEOUS. PLEASE DON'T LITTER. PLEASE DON'T PARK ILLEGALLY. THE COURSE WILL MOST LIKELY BE REMOVED - AND SOON - IF SOME BAD BEHAVIOR DOES NOT STOP.

Although I believe most of these issues existed long before disc golf came to Wildwood, the residents live there - we just play there. They and the WPD will decide the fate of the course. Right now, the proposed solution will be to remove 2 holes, making it a 7-hole course. The objective here is to keep the course, but to remove any possible safety issues and issues about discs landing on neighboring residents' private property, as well as to make the course unattractive to non-Wildwood residents. The second choice is to remove the entire course and sell the equipment.

Please spread the word about playing courteously. If a neighbor confronts you, please be respectful. Please take some POSITVE action so that the course can remain.

The next WPD Board meeting is a continuation of the chaos which occurred last Tuesday night - next Tuesday, May 25th at 7pm at the WPD Meeting Hall. Email me (Jim Klem) for more info or directions: klemrock@earthlink.net. Please come out and be a positive influence. THANKS!

[mirth]

I can only think of two articles in the news lately that have been negative, both ran the other day. What else has there been?

[Jon Brakel]

I am extremely dissapointed. I spent about 12 hours to help put in a 9 hole course. Not a 7 hole course and not no course at all. I don't think I could make the drive up to Wildwood by 7pm, but its probably just as well. I might blow a gasget when these neighbors think they get to decide all on their own what is going to happen to public land. I would not have volunteered those hours to put in a 7 hole course. I would not have volunteered those hours to not have a course at all. PHHHBBBPPPPTTTT!!!!!!!!    


edited for typo--jb

[mirth]

How would you suggest we address the situation / concerns of the neighbors around the park? I'm not terribly thrilled at the prospect of cutting two holes or pulling the whole thing completely, but 3 short weeks after the grand opening there is a clamor for its disassembly.

I think a large amount of blame for the current sitation being so bad can be directed towards the 16-22 year old demographic... I'm not saying all in this group is to blame nor do I think that any of the people we usually play with have done any of the negative things, but the people you tend to see running around with little respect for private property, public urination in plain view of others, littering, loud & foul language, etc... tends to fall in here.

I know I certainly have been guilty of most if not all of this 'way back when'.

I'm also sure that some of these things have happened in the park prior to the installation. However the disc golf course has been a more powerful magnet than anticipated and this is the fallout of that. Increased traffic on the road = less parking around the park = increased traffic in the park = increased incidents of foul language = increased littering = increased presence of alcoholic beverages in the park.. the list goes on and on.

The neighbors also can't understand why people would want to play disc golf in the middle of the night, too...

Jim - I'd say the residents were anything BUT reticent in sharing their feelings and opinions the other night.

[CEValkyrie]

A player I talked to tonight said a homeowner across the street confronted him the other day. He asked him if he was a resident of Wildwood. This guy said " no, I paid my $1.00." Instead of arguing with this guy, he took off.  

[D]

I think it would've been a more appropriate time to address the installation of this course before it was put into the ground..

[Jon Brakel]

I think it would've been a more appropriate time to address the installation of this course before it was put into the ground..

Hindsight being 20-20. I assumed that when Wildwood asked for help that this was something that THEY WANTED!

[mirth]

And it is something the parks dept wanted... The homeowners had advance notice of the course's planned installation too. Chuck hand delivered 50 IB2k4 flyers to neighboring homes.

Your confrontational homeowner was most likely mr or mrs cerrano.

[Mangler]

Designated parking area would be a fine start for Disc Course Patrons.(otherwise known as young aggressive males)

Parking is available on Mill (parkside). Keep players from parking in front of playground. Between Houses and Playground Equip make it a problem for obvious reasons.

Larger problem is design. The playground is in conflict . Parking Conflict, Hole #1 Conflict, Walk through conflict from #9 to #1, Player conflict sitting in and around playground equip. Also the Course Sign/Kiosk is too dominating. Move it.

Suggestion...

TWIN LAKES GREAT IDEA keep the course but reconfigure it.

Take Playground out of the picture. Place Kiosk on other side of bridge. Start # 1 Clockwise from approx #4 tee box and go from there ending up in amost same spot for #9 Basket from #3 tee area (approx) ETC.

Kids could play on Playground and never know a disc player was there.
I would be happy to show layout to any one interested in Keeping 9 at Twin Lakes.

[mirth]

Why don't you post your proposed layout here, or bring it in person to the next park dept meeting?

posting here would be better, so everybody can familiarize themselves with the possibilities...

[jim]

The course was designed for low-impact, neighborhood usage. Neither I or the Wildwood Park District ever dreamed that such a small course would be played so frequently by so many players.

The WPD is open to - but not in favor of - spending more money to re-do the signage. Their budget is VERY limited. Even if I donate the graphics again (which I have committed to), it would still cost to reprint and remount the big sign.

The WPD is funded through taxes of residents of Wildwood. The residents live there, we just play there.  If the residents cannot be persuaded to allow the course to stay in some form, it will be pulled. Although I am heartbroken that the course will probably be pulled or at least reconfigured to fewer baskets, that is not our decision. We really have no input, except to offer suggestions on how to placate the residents. the Wildwood Park District Board of Directors will decide; I will abide by whatever decision they make.

Some of the residents who were at Tuesday's meeting are VERY serious about this - to the point of being a major liability to the park district.  That one angry resident can cause a world of headaches for the Park District. And the Park District does not consider this course important enough to wage war (or to pay a lawyer a ton of money to defend). The WPD Board and its funding come from the community and serve their community, not our disc golfing promotional interests

[airspuds]

sounds like the course needs a ranger
someone to enforce the rules

my 2 cents  

increase pay to play  from 1 to 5 bucks

allow only 4 on a hole at once  (like in regular golf)
sign in check in type thing  
which is more expensive to do ?
take the course out or hire a starter/ranger

how about spy cams  on all the holes  

"excuse me "      yes      we saw you rip out that baby tree on 5
oh that wasnt me     check the  video

you could just put up signs  saying the course is  being monitered

it sounds like the one resident who is leading the charge
has had issues with disc going into his yard     -  when he expresses his
problem with it -   the golfers tell him to bite it
obviously the open drug and alcohol use is a concern but once some
dumb ass is put in jail for it  that could help

sounds like the local police need to bring their dogs out to the park

i think it would be a BAD thing to take out the course
especially since i havent had a chance to play it

open communication is the key

my look on similiar issue  (this is just MY  commentary not necessarily the absolute truth/facts )

when joliet  west park added the extra holes on the wheeler pavillion side
notice that long walk from 8 to  9  (3 holes were taken out due to complaints)
residents were upset because THEIR park was being used by disc golfers

several of these residents were DOG walkers,  that side of the park was used
exclusively by the residents to walk their dogs (arent there lease laws,
laws that say pick up your dogs waste, and the issue of what happens if your unleased dog bites a kid )

the residents were upset that THEIR park was now being used by other people

ok heres another instance

the field behind the kids school is used for soccer, on any given m-th in sept and oct      the place is a madhouse      there is zone parking on the west side of the street for the residents but the perimiter of the field is lined with suv and minivans

the residents of this block dont like all the traffic, noise and the such from the activities   i got to a game late and parked in the zone area and started to go to the field   crazy older lady  starts screaming at me   "you cant park there !!!"
you would have thought that i was killing someone the way she was screaming

i said yes i can park there,   i did and if i get a ticket from the police so be it
and i kept walking      

not all the residents around this open field are like that but what ive noticed
is that the field used by kids to play in  is the residents dog pooping area

the residents walk their dogs here and dont pick up after themselves
"ive lived here  so many years and thats the way its been so im not going to change what i do regardless of the consequences"

so where s the old lady screaming at dogs pooping and the owners not cleaning up ?    

in chicago there are lease laws and pooping laws
are they really going to get enforced  ?

it seems as though the residents dont like that THEIR park is being used
for something else  (disc ) their ammo is the results of disc players (language, smoking , drinking)     how can anyone not see their point when its there for all to see  

open level headed communication is key   (sounds like the one guy got into it with case toting. one disc chucking, 8 in a group yahoos )

[Jon Brakel]

I told Brett that if the course gets pulled, the first thing we should all do is grab a Skill Shot, go out there and play a round.    

[Guest_airspuds]

sounds like a good bag tag challage