4th DISContinuum Blast!

[Jon Brakel]

Now, instead of complaining that I am posting here, please try to answer my questions if you are so open to criticism:
1. But wouldn't it be better to run an event fair and generous across the field for all players?
2. WHY NOT cater to your Juniors (the players of today AND tomorrow)?
3. Where were the sponsors who helped DISContinuum for 3+ years?

1) Our event was fair and generous across the field for all players.

2) This event was an R tier event. There was no Jr. division or women's division or masters division. We decided as a club in the Spring that we wanted to try out this format and see if it was good. We could run this format again and "cater" to the lower divisions by doing fatter players packs and that is something that we are discussing for next year's events. At all of the IOS events where we did have Jr. divisions we paid deeper and more than the PDGA paytables call for.

3) I think we had 12 or 14 CTPs at the Blast. One of them was a disc golf bag filled with good stuff. That CTP alone was worth more than $70 and was all from our sponsors. The rest of the CTPs were sponsored by the players, The Waterford Jr. Girls and Discontinuum. By running a fiscally responsible tournament, we are able to turn the profits from the event back to the players in the way of CTPs. We also had 3 Gold division cash sponsors on Sunday.

The biggest sponsor that Discontinuum had in the last 3 years was Discontinuum members this year. You left us with a large debt when you left the club, Jim and most of that was from last year's Blast. What kind of sponsorship was that?!?! That's no way to run an event and no way to run a club.

If you are so concerned with how we are doing then come on out to the next event and see for yourself. I think you will see that the way we run our events is fair and fun for all involved. You don't have to blindly put the club in debt in order to run a fair, fun and generous event.

[CEValkyrie]

1. But wouldn't it be better to run an event fair and generous across the field for all players?
2. WHY NOT cater to your Juniors (the players of today AND tomorrow)?
3. Where were the sponsors who helped DISContinuum for 3+ years?

Thanks,
Jim Klem

#1) Our tournaments are fair across the board but how would you know since you've yet to attend one.  We advertise exactly what type of tournament we are running. We did player packs @ all 3 IO Series events & no player pack at the DISContinuum Blast. If you'd have attened our events this year & witnessed for yourself, all juniors went home with some type of winnings from both player pack & just playing no matter where they finished. Have you asked the players that played the events if they thought it was fair or not?

#2) I think we are catering to the Juniors, Recs, & all disc golf players for that matter. We have brought 4 PDGA Sanctioned tournaments to this area & another Am only event coming up in October. Check the club members list for the # of PDGA members we now have. More new tournament players came out this year. Every junior palyer goes away with something. We add divisional CTP's to all our tournaments as well. Again, how would you know since you haven't been to an event? Have you asked the junior & rec players that have played our events if we cater to them?

#3) The sponsorships we do have basically offer discounts on merchandise. We don't need discounts on Merch when Bruce is willing to drive from Michigan to supply discs. To me it's a no brainer. We pay no money up front for a huge stock of merchandise. It's a 50/50 deal with DISContinuuum Disc Golf Club & Waterford Jr Girls Club. We made minimal $ for both clubs but last year we lost money on the event you ran.  

[CEValkyrie]

Brett and Discontinuum

From a Rec player that paid the $ to bring up the rear of the tier...Thanks.  The event was a lot of fun.  I played with Damon and Kyle and learned a load from watching them throw during the first round.  I will keep throwing and come out and shoot lower next time.  I knew the price and was willing to pay it.  I was also willing to ante up for the ace pool even though there was only one hole, 1, where I even had a chance based on my skill.  Thanks again.

David

David,
    Thanks for coming. We appreciate the support. Feel free to register a name on the message board & post frequently. I hope you had a good time & enjoyed the course.
Brett

[SuperSoft]

I say you guys battle on the battle grounds of bevier park to see who is right.

This was my first tournment I have gone to.  I thought it was run really well.  I ended up paying 35 bucks and then bought 7 discs with my brass cash... so i thought it worked out well.

But anyways it was fun and I plan on playing the one in Oct  

[CEValkyrie]

I say you guys battle on the battle grounds of bevier park to see who is right.

This was my first tournment I have gone to.  I thought it was run really well.  I ended up paying 35 bucks and then bought 7 discs with my brass cash... so i thought it worked out well.

But anyways it was fun and I plan on playing the one in Oct

Thanks for coming Mark. Just think, you could save $5.00 next year at each PDGA Event if you join the PDGA. We will be renewing later this year & you can save $5.00 on a PDGA membership thru the club.  You will also get a rating & points tracked on the PDGA Website to go along with your stack of plastic .

[Guest]

My son, Daniel.  He was planning on playing but decided not to after learning the cost and the lack of players package.
He stopped by the event and spoke to some folks. When I saw him last night, he was very disappointed with the setup.
Paul, a Rec player and non-PDGA member, was appalled to be expected to pay $32 to play 36 holes.  That is a very prohibitive cost to Rec players.
Yes, these were all advertised entry fees, but they just decided in the past few days to give the Blast a try.

[mirth]

What I had heard is that Danny didn't play because he overslept, I did not hear anything about why Paul decided not to play nor did I hear that Danny expressed any sort of disappointment with the lack of a player's package.

Paul, a rec player and non-pdga member, could have played Green or Purple and walked out with likely a trophy and his entry fee back, plus have had a lower entry fee. Same goes for Danny.

Thanks for the suggestions and input. I'm sure they'll be taken into consideration when planning the 2005 series, which the Blast might be a part of.

[Guest]

Please detail how many Juniors played and exactly what they walked away with.

Also, when are you planning to post IOS results?
Also, am I the only one who is uncomfortable with the TDs playing every event?
Or do you do that just to make PDGA minimum requirements?

[mirth]

Whats wrong with Directors playing the day they're not officiating?

Results from Fairfield haven't posted yet (from what I understand) becuase the TD report isn't complete yet.

Do what to make minimum requirements, have the TDs play? I think our TDs like to play disc golf as well as run events, which is why split day tourneys work so well for our volunteers - they run the day they aren't playing.


Jim, what the hell is your problem?

[ochreogre]

My two cents:

Saturday:  Event was well run.  I had a good time, the course layout was SWEET and I would urge the club to do a similar layout for other events.  Everyone I talked to loved the temp holes, and even though some did not like the OB lines, they did enjoy the challenge the OB lines presented.  

Didn't hear anyone complaining about the entry fees, the payouts, or how the tournament was set up or being run.  The only complaints I did hear Saturday were: 1) The baskets and chains situation (and even then, none seriously), and  2) ...nope, just that 1, really.

My only personal complaint about Saturday was that I had a total meltdown and played possibly the worst two rounds of my life.    On a relatively easy course, too.  Sure hope that changes up before Oct. 30.  

Sunday:  I was glad to help out and glad I could help out.  Really interesting to see how an event is run from the other side of the registration table.  All the work that has to be done: the calculations, registrations, observations...

One interesting observation I had was about Jon, Bruce, and Brett as TDs.  If anyone has any doubts about their philosophy of events "being run by players for the players", my opinion is they have no need to doubt it.  They really are doing this for the players and the love of the game.   I sat down and helped Jon with the financials Sunday, with the PDGA info right in front of me.  They certainly aren't in this for the money.  

One suggestion would be that the few extra dollars that came in might have been used for player packs.  But that would work if only 4 people wanted player packs and everyone else turned them down, so never mind.  

Sunday complaints that I heard:  1) Baskets and chains (sound familiar?), 2) the ruling on the "played the wrong tee situation".  Give that the ruling was straight from the PDGA book, though, they could hardly argue it.  And 3) relatively low turn out.   Guess that means the word has to be spread a little more next year.  

For the benefit of those not there, 26 people played Sunday.  12 "cashed" and went home with prizes.  Almost 50% of the field took something home.  That's a tournament payout very few will complain about.  With nearly 1/2 the players taking something home, that should help spread the word for next year.

Maybe they didn't have a bunch of brand name sponsors tossing money and prizes in, but the event was well run with few complaints.  And maybe sponsorship is something that will be brought back for the next one.  Being that this was a Ratings based event, it's not really angled toward new or casual players.  It's ratings based.  And how do you get a rating?  By playing in other PDGA events.  The other events I was at this year did indeed have lower junior and rec/casual entry fees, player packs, and many of them took something home, including an important thing called experience.    

It's been said before, but I will repost it here:
Before you bash an event, come play it.  

Me, I had a good time both Saturday and Sunday.  I played in all 3 IO events and the Blast.  I also did poorly at all 3 IO events and at the Blast.  But that was no  fault but my own.  And that, too, is an important thing called experience.

~Steve

[Jon Brakel]

Please detail how many Juniors played and exactly what they walked away with.

Also, when are you planning to post IOS results?
Also, am I the only one who is uncomfortable with the TDs playing every event?
Or do you do that just to make PDGA minimum requirements?

Jim, this is the last time I'm going to tell you this. I PLAY TOURNAMENTS, INCLUDING MY OWN, BECAUSE I LIKE TO PLAY TOURNAMENTS!!!!!!!! Plus this was a C tier tournament. There is no minimum for a C tier!!!

We always have a non-playing official as the TD of the day. This past weekend I couldn't play because I hurt my back two weekends ago, but I would have played on Saturday while Bruce and Brett were the non-playing officials and Brett is the TD of record. On Sunday they played while I was the non-playing official and TD of the day. I haven't posted IOS results yet because I haven't been able to sit down at the computer at night because of my back. I have every intention of getting them posted within the alloted time per my B-tier agreement.

We didn't actually have any "Juniors" play because it was an R-tier tournament and there is no Junior division at an R-tier. Adrian Jr. played both days. Todd F. played on Sunday because his rating is too high for any of the Saturday R-tier divisions. I can't remember what day Diron played. I don't think there were any other Junior age players.

At a minimum all the Junior age players walked away with a feeling of accomplishment, PDGA points and PDGA rating. But I think that Adrian Jr. and Todd both won funny money.

Jim, since you have severed all ties with the club, why do you care about this stuff? Micro management on your part is what almost drove most of the current Board of Directors away from the club before you left. If you really care about any of this stuff, then come to an event and see what's going on. From your posts I can tell that you are absolutely clueless as to what we are doing. Which makes sense since you are no longer associated with the club and don't attend our events.

[Guest]

I am glad to hear you and others had fun. If you guys are providing fun events for some, that's great. The temp layouts did look fun and the course looked just fine.

However, after experiencing other events in other states for years, I still believe there is a better way to do things.

What the hell is my problem?  My son is disappointed; my uncle is pissed off.  So, I'm asking some meaty questions and not getting solid numbers for answers.
What's YOUR problem?  Can't you take a prodding once in a while?  I thought you were open to criticism.......

Mirth wrote:
"Paul, a rec player and non-pdga member, could have played Green or Purple and walked out with likely a trophy and his entry fee back, plus have had a lower entry fee. Same goes for Danny."

Gee, that wasn't the way the ratings-based divisions were set up on the entry form and flyer.  Even so, don't you think that the following example is a bit skewed?:
-Danny (Junior Rec player): $22
-Any Open player: $33

Maybe I'd know more if you posted official payouts and results.

[Guest]

Jon, you're right.
This is tedious and you jerks are so buried in your own Brakel-centric games that you will never change.
Others will see the truth as you continue to alienate players and sponsors with reckless disregard.
It shows in the fact that you snubbed your noses at Danny - the kid who did more work on both Bevier and Wildwood than any of you.  That is a far cry from that first Blast where so many of you played your first tourney...........
You have forgotten the people who made all this possible in the first place.
You will reap what you sow . . . . . .
BYE!

[shawn]

Glad to hear that everything went well with the blast.  Anyone know the whereabouts of Craig's and my basket.  

Had to laugh when I read Jon's post about stressing over registration, what were there to many people   ....  sorry little things like that make my day.  Do you really think you can handle being the IL PDGA rep?  I mean really you stress over 20 some people and you want to be the go to guy for the entire state.  

Jim, I love this drama stuff that you bring to this board..  we should get together some time and have a guiness or 4.

[CEValkyrie]

Glad to hear that everything went well with the blast.  Anyone know the whereabouts of Craig's and my basket.  

Had to laugh when I read Jon's post about stressing over registration, what were there to many people   ....  sorry little things like that make my day.  Do you really think you can handle being the IL PDGA rep?  I mean really you stress over 20 some people and you want to be the go to guy for the entire state.  

Jim, I love this drama stuff that you bring to this board..  we should get together some time and have a guiness or 4.

Shawn,
    I have both baskets. I will arrange to get them back to you.  

[Jon Brakel]

Had to laugh when I read Jon's post about stressing over registration, what were there to many people   ....  sorry little things like that make my day.

I feel better knowing that my stress made you happy.  

Anyway, I was stressed about running an R-tier for the first time without my main registration volunteers. Had I known that we would only have 10 more players this year than last year's Blast then I would not have been so stressed. Also, Steve, Damon and Brett did a great job of filling in for the regulars.

[Jon Brakel]

don't you think that the following example is a bit skewed?:
-Danny (Junior Rec player): $22
-Any Open player: $33

Since there haven't been very many PDGA tournaments in the northern Illinois area we have run most of them as plain vanilla PDGA tournaments. PDGA suggested entry fees and payouts. The Blast was straight PDGA RC-tier entry fees, payouts and player packs. Since IOS #2 we have been talking about several ideas to improve the 2005 IOS. Even at that time we had thought that the lower divisions (Rec, Jr., W Am, and maybe even Am) had entry fees that were a little too high. We have also discussed offering Jr. and Rec divisions as player pack only with only trophies as the payout. My suggestion with the Jrs. was that for a $15 entry fee they would get a $20 player pack plus a trophy for the winner. The final format for 2005 might not be exactly that, but it will probably be something similar.

As for an R-tier, if we do one again, we probably won't do a fat player pack since there is no Jr. division. However, I think we will look at the pricing structure for the lower divisions, although I don't think there is a problem with a $22 entry fee.

[Jon Brakel]

Jon, you're right.
This is tedious and you jerks are so buried in your own Brakel-centric games that you will never change.
Others will see the truth as you continue to alienate players and sponsors with reckless disregard.
It shows in the fact that you snubbed your noses at Danny - the kid who did more work on both Bevier and Wildwood than any of you.  That is a far cry from that first Blast where so many of you played your first tourney...........
You have forgotten the people who made all this possible in the first place.
You will reap what you sow . . . . . .
BYE!

The only Brakel-centric game that I know of is disc golf. That is the game that Diana Brakel, Kira Brakel, Kelsey Brakel, Maddisen Brakel, Becky Brakel, Bruce Brakel, Brett (Comincioli) Brakel and Jon Brakel all play.

Why do you think we are alienating players? Because all of the 2004 IOS series events had more players than the one before? Because we had more players at Fairfield this year than last year? Because we had more players at the Blast this year than you did last year?

We are working on several sponsorship deals. I hope to have more news on these shortly. Just because we don't have any huge sponsors doesn't mean that we aren't doing any work in that area.

None of us snubbed our noses at Danny. We asked him why he wasn't playing and he said that he had overslept. We talked to him for a couple of minutes and then went back to work.

Jim, I have thanked you several times for all that you have done and you have never acknowledged it. I don't see a reason to thank you anymore since you don't seem to listen to it.

[edited to change typo--"evens" to "events"]

[mirth]

You will reap what you sow . . . . . .

You're right, we do. Last year we had 33 confirmed club members. As of right now we have 43 club members.

Last year we had about 36 bag tags in circulation. This year we have 54 and counting.

BYE!

I don't believe that for one instant.

[CEValkyrie]

Please detail how many Juniors played and exactly what they walked away with.





Also, am I the only one who is uncomfortable with the TDs playing every event?
Or do you do that just to make PDGA minimum requirements?

Payout for the weekend.

Saturday

White-> 8 players X $27.00 = $216.00 Total Purse
1. $65.00 + Trophy
2. $54.00 + Trophy
3. $43.00 + Trophy
4. $32.00
5. $22.00

Red-> 19 players X $27.00 = $513.00 Total Purse
1. $77.00 + Trophy
2. $72.00 + Trophy
3. $67.00 + Trophy
4. $62.00
5. $56.00
6. $47.00
7. $40.00
8. $35.00
9. $30.00
10. $27.00

Green-> 1 player X $22.00 = $22.00 Total Purse
1. $22.00 + Trophy

Purple-> 2 players X $22.00 = $44.00 Total Purse
1. $26.00 + Trophy
2. $18.00

There were 10 CTP's added for the 2nd Round
2 for White
4 for Red
1 for Green/Purple
2 for all divisions
1 for DISContinuum Members Only.

Value
8 were $15.00 CTP's = $120.00
1 was a bag o stuff valued at $70.00
1 was an E-Wizard for club members only


Sunday

Gold-> 9 players X $32.00 = $288.00 + $65.00 added cash = $353.00 - ($2.00 X 9 = $18.00 for PDGA Fees) = $335.00 Total Purse
1. $150.00 + Trophy
2. $85.00
3. $55.00
4. $45.00

Silver-> 8 players X $32.00 = $256.00 Total Purse
1. $105.00 + Trophy
2. $65.00 + Trophy
3. $50.00 + Trophy
4. $36.00 + Trophy

Bronze-> 9 players X $32.00 = $288.00 Total Purse
1. $123.00 + Trophy
2. $75.00 + Trophy
3. $50.00 + Trophy
4. $40.00

There were 4 CTP's added on Sunday
Value
All 4 were $15.00 CTP's = $60.00
2 for players with ratings under 955
2 for Bronze




We play our own tournaments because we like to play disc golf. There are no # requirements for C-Tiers. Take away Jon, Bruce, & I from all 3 IO Series Events, We easily make B-Tier requirements as well.