2005 ILLINOIS OPEN SERIES

[whofarted]

is there a document that shows the payouts for all the divisions at the first IOS event?  i checked the PDGA website, but all they show is the pro divsions.

[SERG]

is there a document that shows the payouts for all the divisions at the first IOS event?  i checked the PDGA website, but all they show is the pro divsions.

Payouts usually aren't shown for Amateur divisions on the PDGA site. I think Brett/Bruce/Jon will have to answer this one for you.

[Jon Brakel]

I can post them here after I get home. I post the am results on PDGA.com and then the PDGA takes them down after they become official results.

[Jon Brakel]

Greg,

My posts keep getting trunkated. I'll have to work on getting this info for you.

[mirth]

size limitation?

[Jon Brakel]

size limitation?

There was a lot of formatting in it. I'm trying it again but without any special formatting.

[mirth]

k. if it barfs up some bb error on you PM me the error & I'll see about fixing it.

[Jon Brakel]

Thppptttt!!!!!!!!!!!!    

[Bruce Brakel]

To the extent that you are just curious about the payouts, we calculated them this way:  We gave the players a 15 funny player pack but only deducted 10 for that.  Then we paid them 100% of what remained by PDGA tables.  We did not deduct for PDGA $3 fees or for our economy size trophies.  In intermediate it would look like this:

$23 entry fee.
<$3 to Parkside>
15 funny player pack per player
10 funny to payout per player
28 players X 10 = 280 in the payout
The PDGA payout for the top half then goes something like this:
30, 28, 27, 25, 24, 22, 21, 19, 18, 16, 15, 13, 12, 10 = 280

In addition we added three [I think] CTPs for the intermediates and paid for their $3 PDGA fees and for the economy size trophies out of the event profit.  

To the extent that anyone is complaining about payouts, what they are really complaining about is low entry fees, player packs and PDGA payout tables.  Player packs cut deeply into payouts, low entry fees leave less left over after giving out a player pack and the PDGA tables pay more people but less per person than if we were to pay fewer players more per person.

In light of the comments we have received, we have decided to tweak the payouts for advanced and intermediate at IOS #2.  At IOS #2 we are going to drop the last couple of spots and redistribute that to the top three players so that there is a bonus for finishing at the top.  How many spots we drop will depend on how many play but two or three spots seems likely.  Here is the tweaked intermediate payout for the same number of players:

40, 36, 31, 25, 24, 22, 21, 19, 18, 16, 15, 13, 0, 0 = 280

Meanwhile, it is interesting to see what happens to this equation when there are no player packs, for example, at the Crystal Lake event:

15 funny X 28 intermediates = 420 more for the payout.  420+280=700

75, 71, 66, 60, 59, 57, 56, 54, 53, 51, 50, 38, 0, 0=700

This raises an interesting question:  do you want player packs or would you rather more than double the payouts?  When player packs for B-tiers were first imposed on us by the PDGA we thought it was a bad idea?  Is it?  We can run C-tiers if that is what the players would prefer and put all that player pack money in the payout.  

Your feedback is always welcome.

[Dan Michler]

i think the modified payout will be alot more satisfying for most players.

so, player pack or bigger payout?  hmmm.  that might be a good poll to have after people see the huge difference displayed in Bruce's post.

I personally think sticking with the player pack would be best for the events.  Its nice for everybody to get 1 free disc when the enter so they know they wont' walk away totally empty handed.

Alot of players i've talked to do get excited about player packs.  I hear alot of "dude, u gotta go to this tourney cuz there is a sweet player pack!"  or ' i really liked the disc i got in my player pack'.

I'm sure nobody is complaining about the total payout for any IOS events that have ever been run.  they have all been more than fair.  i think the change in the structure of the Intermed. payout should make everybody happy.  it seems consistent with what i've seen at pretty much every other event i've attended.

[Jon Brakel]

Mirth upped the limit but it still didn't work. I'll try putting up a quick page at brasscash.com.

[Bruce Brakel]

Thank you Jon!  

Of course it never has to be all one or all the other.  If some players would rather see more fat payout C-tiers events and some players would rather see more player pack B-tiers we could even the mix and run more C-tiers but still run some B-tiers.  

Anyway, I now see and remember that this discussion was covered a couple of weeks ago in the PDGA section and the upshot seemed to be [as i've always suspected] that most amateurs want to play tournaments on good courses where they have fun and good competition.  If they have to suffer cheesy payouts to play Hyzer Mountain, or whereever, they'll suffer cheesy payouts and play the awesome courses.  

The new Lombard course design is getting rave reviews.  Hopefully we'll see you there.  

[Jon Brakel]

Here is a link to the payout chart.

2005 IOS #1 payout chart.

[whofarted]

jon, thanks for getting that up.  the reason i asked for it is because of some discord among a few rockford disc golfers - they are under the impression that another club is wholelly doing the Forest City Frenzy.  this partly my fault for not cluing them into the whole situation, but this weekend we are having a club meeting (the first in the five years i have been a member) and we are goin to discuss these things among others.  the reason i wanted the payout chart is to show them on paper that you folks have a good thing going and that it should be embraced by all members of GRABM.  i tihnk some very positive things will come of the meeting and to any that would like to contribute their thoughts or ideas - we will be meeting at the park this sunday at 10am and playing doubles once the meeting is over with.

[CEValkyrie]

Check the Rockford message board Greg. I lest a message you can print.  

[CEValkyrie]

Greg,
   I would copy & paste Bruce's scenario above that we are changing to for the next event as well.

Also, explain that the trophies are hand made. If we did not do cheaper trophies this money would have to be deducted from payouts. More expensive trophies means more money to cover expenses.  

[CEValkyrie]

To the extent that anyone is complaining about payouts, what they are really complaining about is low entry fees.

This is one opinion that we listened to from last year. For lower divisions it seemed people wanted a lower entry fee. We lowered the entry fees for this year across the board.  

[Chainmeister]

Absoultely.  Speaking as a rec. player who is at least a year away from competing for any payout anywhere except for collecting some scratch from Michler at the end of the baseball season , the lower entry fees are tremendous.  Just wanna play.  

[Bruce Brakel]

Greg, at your meeting tell them that we run low-profit events that have generous amateur payouts.  Almost all of our profit comes from cash disc sales, and not out of the amateur entry fees.  At your event, if everything goes as you have indicated, there will also be some sponsor added cash for the pros generated by your efforts in getting merch sponsorship locally.  

What profits there are at the Rockford event half is staying with you [and your club if they don't kick you out and that's where you choose to put it] and the other half goes to the Waterford Junior Girls' Club to help send girls to Peoria for the Women's National Championship.  

[Mike S]

Alright I think I am definitely going to try to make it next weekend.  After the way I shot this weekend down in Mokena I am thinking about stepping up and playing Advanced.  I shot -6 (75) from the white tees and -1 (80) on my first time ever playing the blue tees.  I know I probably won't be in the running for cash but I would rather be pushed to perform by good players.  I suppose it would probably be a good idea to play the course once or twice before the tournament.  Will I be able to register onsite?