Teerex X vs Teerex vs Tee-Rex

[tacimala]

The Pulse was approved on June 29, 2006.  The PDGA does not require reapproval every time the blend of plastic changes.  But you will probably never see a Z-Pulse because it would be too stiff to pass the crush test. 

I had heard this in the past too, but on the merch table it said on the box THIS IS NOT PDGA APPROVED.

[stpitner]

I didn't look to see if I had a non dyed SL, but check out the Pro Starfire-L.  Look at the hot stamp.  See if you can read that they claim it's a PDGA approved disc... Guess somebody forgot something when it came to the approval process

[Working Stiff]

The PDGA tech standards do not require a disc to be retested merely because it is molded in another kind of plastic, but if there are issues with the stiffness of the plastic, sometimes the PDGA has requested that discs be retested.  I think that was the deal with the CE discs. 

Many Star Wraiths, by the way, are too stiff to pass the stiffness test.  So many that it has become an issue between the PDGA and Innova.  The PDGA has a list of discs that have failed in follow up testing and the Wraith is on the list. 

That was my understanding also, that the CE discs got enough complaints about the stiffness that the PDGA requested them to be retested.  I've never seen a list of discs that have failed follow-up testing, That would be interesting info.  So, now what happens to the Star Wraith?

I don't know what is going to happen.  The PDGA is almost as powerful as Innova these days.

Thanks, Bruce.  I needed a laugh today! 

[damonshort]

I didn't look to see if I had a non dyed SL, but check out the Pro Starfire-L.  Look at the hot stamp.  See if you can read that they claim it's a PDGA approved disc... Guess somebody forgot something when it came to the approval process

Ah, but that's a Pro Starfire, not a Pro Starfire-L, which differs from a Starfire, Batfire, Brushfire, and apparently the SL, Pro SL, XXL SL-L, and Innova's newest disc, the ShaddupAndBuyMe.

Sheesh.

[Working Stiff]

I did a check of all current innova discs against the list, and I don't see the SL (already discussed obviously), the TeeBird (although the CE TeeBird is on there, so it might be ok), the Classic Aviar (I'm not sure what this was originally named), and the Pulsar (but this is ok because it's an Ultimate disc and approved by the Ultimate people).  Everything else (including the stuff like the Zephyr, Condor, Jaguar) are all approved.

It's a little confusing with the Aviar because they have Aviar and Aviar Putter listed.  So right there that could mean Classic Aviar and Aviar P&A, but it would leave the Aviar Driver out, or it could represent the Aviar Driver and the Aviar P&A leaving the Classic Aviar out.  I'm also claiming that the Aviar XD (retooled) is = the XD.

So it's a little confusing, but it really is intriguing about that SL.  Are TD's about to start getting really picky about you throwing that disc?  I hope not, but it really does need to get official approval ASAP.

The joys of all sorts of different plastic molds...

I'm sure the SL is the only issue here.  There have been so many throws using beadless, small bead and big bead variations of the Aviar in PDGA competition that if it came up as an issue now they would look ridiculous.  You are correct that the Avair XD is just the good old XD.  It was originally beadless but was retooled with a small bead.  The TeeBird is on the list...Thunderbird approved 5-3-99.

As for the SL, I'm sure they thought that they would slip it by as the Starfire, and didn't really even notice themselves when they decided to market it as the SL.  The approval fee for a disc is what...$200.00?  The fact that Innova doesn't have to re-certify "X" versions of thier discs is silly when you start to consider that the fee is a measly $200.00 that they could easily pay.  I'm sure the SL will be approved shortly.

[Dan Michler]

are u going to turn people in your group in if you see them throwing an SL?  i know i'm not and i doubt anybody else is so i think this whole conversation is mute.

[stpitner]

I didn't look to see if I had a non dyed SL, but check out the Pro Starfire-L.  Look at the hot stamp.  See if you can read that they claim it's a PDGA approved disc... Guess somebody forgot something when it came to the approval process

Ah, but that's a Pro Starfire, not a Pro Starfire-L, which differs from a Starfire, Batfire, Brushfire, and apparently the SL, Pro SL, XXL SL-L, and Innova's newest disc, the ShaddupAndBuyMe.

Sheesh.

fooey, I knew I should have posted a follow up post.  the Pro Starfire IS the SL, just as the Pro Firebird is the FL.

Direct from the page for innova on the pro starfire http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/prostarfire.html

About the Starfire-L or SL
The Pro Starfire is a fast, dependable disc with a long straight flight and excellent glide. This disc is can add measurable distance to your drives. With its quickness, slight high speed turn, long glide and low fade, the Pro Starfire will fly a long way. Also known as the SL.

[Mike S]

They only changed the name when they released it in Star plastic.  Up until then, everything just said "starfire" and you had to look on the bottom to tell the difference.  They changed the name so there would be less confusion over which mold you were getting.

[Bruce Brakel]

The Pulse was approved on June 29, 2006.  The PDGA does not require reapproval every time the blend of plastic changes.  But you will probably never see a Z-Pulse because it would be too stiff to pass the crush test. 

I had heard this in the past too, but on the merch table it said on the box THIS IS NOT PDGA APPROVED.

That disc is not a Pulse.  It is the 2007 One Disc Challenge prototype people have been calling the Splurge.  That disc is not legal for PDGA competition yet. 

[damonshort]

They changed the name so there would be less confusion over which mold you were getting.

That may be the most ironic sentence ever posted on this message board. 

[Mike S]

They changed the name so there would be less confusion over which mold you were getting.

That may be the most ironic sentence ever posted on this message board. 

I dont know...  It used to be that you picked up a starfire and it could have been an SF, an SX, or an SL...  And the name on the front of the disc was always the same.  At least this way it's on the front of the disc where most people will actually look.  This way if you buy a star Starfire, you know it will be the stable version.  If you want something more understable, get an SL.

[Bruce Brakel]

are u going to turn people in your group in if you see them throwing an SL?  i know i'm not and i doubt anybody else is so i think this whole conversation is mute.

I think I would tell them that the SL is not approved for PDGA tournament use, if I saw anyone throwing it.  I think I will announce it at IOS 3. 

This is not an oversight on Innova's part.  They know that the SL is not on the list because they never submitted it, and that it is not approved for PDGA tournament use. 

The rule that a disc must be on the approved list to be used in a tournament is in the rule book. 

[stpitner]

just don't announce me as the whistle blower lol.. *runs and hides*

[Mukey]

I called Innova West Coast & talked to a Susette, asking about when that disc was going to be submitted. She got into the whole Pro Starfire & SL are the same disc, but I told her the PDGA doesn't have it on the approved list so I can't throw it at IOS#3. She took my name & number & said they should  have it approved by then. Probably a line of BS, but we'll see.

[stpitner]

probably could have brought up that a Star SL is not a Star Starfire, therefore it's kinda blatantly obvious that the SL is a different disc, and "not on the list".

But that does make me think of some interesting things - does that mean the TeeRex-X and Wraith-X are not allowed?  Confusing!

[dana]

The Starfire L, Firebird L, and TeeBird L were all approved and in production before we shortened the names to the abbreviations SL, FL, and TL. At this point Homberg decided this was a name change and the discs, which were already certified, had to be recertified. We market the Starfire L, the Firebird L, and TeeBird L as the original models with a shortened designation, not a name change like Sniper to Gremlin, which was a name change. Regardless, we have already recertified the FL, TL, and Gremlin. We will recertify the SL soon. In the meantime, if you play with a disc called Starfire L, it should be legal, as it was before the name abbreviation. If you play with a disc called SL, it may not be.

The above quote is from the 'Ask Dave D about Innova' thread on PDGA.com

[Working Stiff]

probably could have brought up that a Star SL is not a Star Starfire, therefore it's kinda blatantly obvious that the SL is a different disc, and "not on the list".

But that does make me think of some interesting things - does that mean the TeeRex-X and Wraith-X are not allowed?  Confusing!

Me thinks we overthink this one.  The PDGA has a huge loophole that has been there for years and they refuse to take the simple step of closing the loophole to simplify every ones life.  Imagine that?

All of this confusion goes away if the PDGA would certify each MOLD COMBINATION and designate them with a numeric or alphabetical code that has to be included on the disc somehow.  That way each disc would have a PDGA code on it, and a big disc dork like me could pick it up and read "INN87-5" and instantly know it was a San Marino Roc.  Change anything in the molding of a disc?  Get it re-certified.  It makes sense, more money for the PDGA, yada, yada, yada.  Instead, the PDGA lets Innova run an Ontario Roc and a Rancho Roc that are different molds but grandfathers them under the San Marino Roc approval.  Why?  Who knows?  That's the PDGA for ya!

[Bruce Brakel]

Dave's answer to the question is factually incorrect.  The Starfire-L was never approved.  You can check the list for yourself. 

What actually happened was, Innova submitted the Starfire for approval and it was approved.  Then they tried to slide by on a new mold, what would eventually become the SL by calling it the Pro Starfire.  Then they changed the name of the Pro Starfire to the Pro Starfire L. 

Neither the SL nor the Starfire L has ever been submitted for approval.  More importantly, neither is on the list.  It is against the rules to throw a disc that is not on the list, no matter why it is not on the list. 

[can't putt]

I imagine that most am players assume that anything they buy as a golf disc from Innova or Discraft is approved.  If you make an announcement at IOS3 that the Starfire-L and the SL are not competition legal, you will get 5 minutes of questions and consternation.  If you announce instead that any disc not on the PDGA approved list is not competition legal you will get 45 minutes of questions and consternation.  It might be better to draw attention to the list, but not enforce it until IOS4.

[Bruce Brakel]

We really can't pick and choose which rules we are going to follow.  There may be rules we have not noticed because they aren't in the rule book, but the one about only throwing discs on the list is right there at Rule 805(B)(12).

I sent a request for a waiver to the Tour Manager.  We'll see what he says.

Request for Waiver of Rule 805(B)(12) at 2007 IOSeries Events as it Relates to the Starfire-L and the SL

It has recently come to my attention that the Starfire-L and the SL are not on the PDGA list of approved discs for tournament use.  I checked with the Tech Standards Committee and the Rules Committee and am informed that this is not an oversight.  The disc has never been submitted for approval.  Under Rule 805(B)(12) disc is illegal.

Having played an A-NT recently where you were the Marshal, it also seems clear that the PDGA is not making an issue of this.  One of our club members called Innova West and they indicated that they expected that this would get resolved soon.  There does not seem to be any reason why this disc won't be approved as soon as it is submitted.  We have been selling the disc as if it is PDGA approved. 

For these reasons, on behalf of the IOSeries I am requesting a waiver of Rule 805(B)(12) as it relates to the Starfire-L and the SL at 2007 IOSeries events. 

Bruce Brakel