Teerex X vs Teerex vs Tee-Rex

[Mukey]

Thanks for that Bruce. I doubt not being able to throw mine would've made any difference in my game, but I know a lot of people who disc golf seem to not be online and your announcement would be the first time they hear this, which is kinda what I think Kurt was trying to convey above. I'm all for playing by the rules and have no problem leaving my SL(ut) at home for Crystal Lake.

[Bruce Brakel]

At the player meeting tonight TD Todd White declared the SL, Starfire L, "Splurge," and Turbo to be illegal for use at Am Nationals.  The first two because they were never submitted to the PDGA for approval.  The last one because Quest has not yet run the minimum number required for them to be used in a tournament. 

Many players were shocked by the SL announcement. 

[Working Stiff]

Isn't it funny that a TD is making a bigger deal of this than the PDGA is, and it's the PDGA's rule. 

[mirth]

well, rule enforcement is up to the TDs & marshals...

[mirth]

Just asked my sales guy @ Innova East when the SL would be approved. His response was it has been for a looong time - its a Starfire according to him!

[J.R.]

Isn't it funny that a TD is making a bigger deal of this than the PDGA is, and it's the PDGA's rule. 

I think it's good that TDs are starting to enforce this.  The only way this stupid controversy will get resolved is if TDs start not letting players use the disc, thus pissing off players, who will complain to Innova.  At some point, if enough people complain, I have to think Innova will choose to submit the SL.  And then, Voila, no more problem.

[Bruce Brakel]

Dave Gentry, Tour Manager, replied to my request for a waiver of 805(C)(12) or whatever the rule is.  He thinks the issue is going to be resolved this week. If not, he requests that we play by PDGA rules. 

If a disc is not on the list, it is illegal.  The QuestAT Turbo IS on the list.  The Innova SL and Starfire L are not.  Neither are the Buzzz SS and the Avenger SS. 

[J.R.]

Where can one find the officail list?

[Working Stiff]

Where can one find the officail list?

http://www.pdga.com/documents/tech_standards/PDGA_approved_discs_and_targets.pdf

[Working Stiff]

Dave Gentry, Tour Manager, replied to my request for a waiver of 805(C)(12) or whatever the rule is.  He thinks the issue is going to be resolved this week. If not, he requests that we play by PDGA rules. 

If a disc is not on the list, it is illegal.  The QuestAT Turbo IS on the list.  The Innova SL and Starfire L are not.  Neither are the Buzzz SS and the Avenger SS. 

I'm not familiar with the Buzzz SS, but the Buzzz GT is not on the list, either.  I'm not sure if adding "SS" to the end constitutes a name change.  You could argue that it is the same as the "L" & "X" mold nonsense we have been complaining about throughout this thread.  I'd get clarification from the PDGA on that one if it was me.

Of course, it's not me.  Thank God! 

[DANA V]

a SS buzzz was given in the am nats player pack- if it is not on the approved list that is bullshit that they would say you cannot throw the SL.  i also recieved a SS avenger for playing in the sunking doubles at bowling green.  if it is not on the list than that is bullshit as well.

Hypocrites over at DISCRAP if that is the case.  I'm sure they DAMN well knew that the SS buzzz's and avenger's were not on the list but they went ahead and made it know about the SL issue.

[Bruce Brakel]

You can make arguments about whether this disc or that disc needs to be submitted for testing to be approved, but the bottom line is PDGA Rule 805 (B) (12): 

"B.The guidelines for golf discs are set forth in the PDGA Technical Standards Document. To be legal in PDGA competition, a disc must:

(12) have been certified for competition by the PDGA Technical Standards Committee." 

You can find the list of certified discs by going to PDGA.com, click on "Information" and then look in the column of links on the right for the link to the list.  Or you can click on the link given above, but then you won't learn how to find the list. 

If the Buzzz GT is not on the list, you can add that to your list of discs that are not on the list.  I have contacted the Tech Standards Committee to find out if those three Discraft discs are approved or not. 

[pickax]

While the current "Is this disc an approved disc?" issue is quite annoying if you show up at a tournament and can't throw the latest disc that is your go to disc, it should put some pressure on the PDGA committees (rules and tech standards) to clarify the rules more as to when is a disc variant a new disc, whether that's a plastic tweak, mold tweak, or name tweak. In the meantime, it looks like the PDGA will be getting some extra cash for approvals that the manufacturers may not have been planning on spending.

btw I wouldn't necessarily blame Discraft for starting this.

[pickax]

A link for the approved discs is also on the Rules page of pdga.com

[tacimala]

Mike I think Dana was getting at the fact that they pointed out Innova's fault by not allowing the SL at Am Nats, but didn't mention anything about their own discs that weren't on the list other than the prototype.

[Bruce Brakel]

And how many Innova sponsored tournaments have you been to where they've pointed out that the SL is not on the list?     I think Todd probably did not know about the SSs and GTs not being on the list.  I didn't know.  I'll let you all know what tech Standards says about that. 

[can't putt]

If the Buzzz GT is not on the list, you can add that to your list of discs that are not on the list.

I think standards are essential, as is following the rules.  From a practical standpoint, given this discussion, I think you ought to have a paper copy of the list available at the IOS events, particularly on Int./Rec. day.

If I looked at the list (I have) and saw a Buzzz listed (it is, but with only two 'z's -- hmmm) then I would assume the Buzzz GT would be covered under that same approval.  Just like I would assume a KC Aviar and JK Aviar were covered under some Aviar approval as well.  Or is it only suffixes that make a disc different?

[Dan Michler]

And how many Innova sponsored tournaments have you been to where they've pointed out that the SL is not on the list?     I think Todd probably did not know about the SSs and GTs not being on the list.  I didn't know.  I'll let you all know what tech Standards says about that. 

and how many Innova sponsored tournaments have you been to where they pointed out that a Discraft disc was not on the list?  i think the point is that the whole thing was unusual.

i personally don't care about this whole issue and would have thrown an SL at Am Nats if I threw SL's without worrying about being 'turned in' because i know nobody that i played with would have cared one bit as it gives me no more advantage in the tournament than Cale spiking his putter after he tied Climo.  the whole thing is petty and the issue being pointed out at the player meeting only takes away from the fun of the game which is what we're all there for.  if it gave any competitive advantage at all then I'd be on board with this, but it does not, it is only a technicality.

[pickax]

The difference with the Aviar is that the JK Aviar and KC Aviar are the same molds in different plastics.

[can't putt]

The difference with the Aviar is that the JK Aviar and KC Aviar are the same molds in different plastics.

How am I supposed to discern that from the list?  Do I need to know the difference between a Buzzz, Buzz, and Buzzz GT to qualify to play rec. or int. in a B tier event?  I don't see Ontario Roc on the list, and it's a common understanding that it flies differently than a Rancho Roc.  Am I to assume it's the same mold and approved or a different mold and not approved?