Innova Cro

[Mukey]

Another in the list of Innova's "flood the market with mid-range discs" mentality. They must be running out of names. Last year it was the Skeeter, then this year the Kite, and now the Cro. Same letters in the name & flies like a Roc, but not. Phooey.

http://dealer.innovadiscs.com/

[stpitner]

wow.  the july update must have just been put up there.  Definitely topping the new Cro disc is the Champion Wraith coming out.  That's huge.  Plus they will go as low as 160 grams!  I know DX you can get in 150's, but Star only went down to 165 - and even then the one I had @ 165 looked and felt weird.  Guess I need to save up to reorder from Innova again sooner than I anticipated!

Dave D on the PDGA boards was saying that the Cro is just a faster Roc.  I wonder if the grip will feel any better - i just can't get a good feeling with the Roc when holding it.  Right now I'm addicted to the Gateway Element-X for my mid though... the Cro will have to really impress to make a spot in my bag.

[Working Stiff]

Dave D on the PDGA boards was saying that the Cro is just a faster Roc.  I wonder if the grip will feel any better - i just can't get a good feeling with the Roc when holding it.  Right now I'm addicted to the Gateway Element-X for my mid though... the Cro will have to really impress to make a spot in my bag.

It might be better into a headwind than a Roc.  I just keep a newer, heavy Roc in my bag for that shot, so I'll probably pass on the Cro. 

Sidearm guys might prefer the Cro to the Roc.  Most of the backhand players I know that throw Innova swear by the Roc; most of the sidearm players I know are still looking for a good mid-range.  The extra speed might be what the sidearm guys are looking for.  All-in-all it seems like a better idea than the Kite.  The Kite wins my award for "answer to the question no one was asking."

Scott-did you ever try the Sniper/Gremlin?  It is a mid-range with a driver-like grip.  The feel reminds me of the Panther, but its flight is a lot more stable.  It might be a more comfortable grip for you than the Roc.  Just an idea...I don't throw one, so don't consider it a ringing endorsement or anything.

[Mukey]

Sidearm guys might prefer the Cro to the Roc.  Most of the backhand players I know that throw Innova swear by the Roc; most of the sidearm players I know are still looking for a good mid-range.  The extra speed might be what the sidearm guys are looking for.

I throw both sidearm & backhand, switching to mostly backhand this year. Approaching sidearm is always a sketchy option. I have trouble taking enough off of it so I don't overshoot my upshot, so I'm not sure if the speed is an issue or the depth of the rim. (as it is with me when I try to sidearm a Roc)

Maybe worth a grip, but probably not a rip. The Kite felt too much like a Skeeter for me, which is why I say Innova floods the market with midranges.

[Working Stiff]

Innova floods the market, period!  I've thrown a Viking, an Orc and a Starfire (which I guess is an SL now) back-to-back-to-back in a field and picked them up next to each other in a pattern so close that I can't figure out what the difference is.  I know what Innova says the difference is, but for me they do the same thing.  The TeeRex and Max do about the same thing for me, although I know guys who swear the Max is more overstable (maybe they were throwing a TeeRex L.)  The Beast, the TL and the Valk are very similar to me, also.  I can go on and on. 

This has been going on for a long time.  Anybody remember the Moray?  It flew just like a Stingray IMO.  When I first started playing the XD, Hammer and Roc were so similar that with a little finesse you could get any one of them to fly like another.

I guess it goes back to the archer-arrow thing.  I know people who say I'm CRAZY, that the TL and the Valk fly nothing alike.  Maybe for somebody else they don't, but for me they do.  There are simply too many discs in the Innova portfolio.  Who has time to try out all these discs? 

Want an understable mid-range?  Go beat up a light DX Roc!  Need an overstable mid-range?  Get a new, heavy KC Roc!  It's really not that complicated.

[J.R.]

On their site Innova says it's similar in stability to a Roc and a Shark. Huh?  For me the Roc is stable to overstable and the Shark understable.  I don't think they're similar at all.  I had to take the Shark out of my bag because it kept turning over when I didn't want it to.  Am I alone on this?

[Bruce Brakel]

I thought they had it right when they had the Roc and the Cobra.    

What I learned recently is that with computer assisted design and computer driven manufacture of molds, it has gotten fairly cheap to develop new molds.  It used to be, after they made a mold, they had to sell a couple thousand discs to recoup their investment.  Now they can make a mold, and if they don't like the disc, they try again with another mold. 

The PDGA approved something like 52 new discs over the past 12 months, I read the other night in PDGA minutes. 

Speaking of the unending supply of new mids, I will have 18 of the Special Edition ESP Comets at Rockford and a stack of First Run Torq[ue]s.  I won't have Cros.  Bad timing there.   

[Working Stiff]

On their site Innova says it's similar in stability to a Roc and a Shark. Huh?  For me the Roc is stable to overstable and the Shark understable.  I don't think they're similar at all.  I had to take the Shark out of my bag because it kept turning over when I didn't want it to.  Am I alone on this?

Innova has been trying to convince everyone that the Shark is the best all-around disc on the market for years.  Go to any chain sporting goods store that carries Innova.  Do you see Rocs? No.  They stock them with Sharks.

So, the Shark is the mid for the casual player.  Lots of two-disc casuals throw them.  Once you develop any skill it is too flippy and you switch to a Roc.  Take a survey at a PDGA event of who is throwing a Shark and you might have a few.  Ask who is throwing a Roc and it will take all morning to count the hands.

So why is Innova trying to shove the Shark on you when they have the Roc?  I don't know.  But they sure spend a lot of time trying to convince people that the Shark is a great disc.  It's a beginner disc.  Period.

[stpitner]

The one thing I find interesting is that the Cro is small-diameter vs. large diameter Shark and Roc.  That might make it worth my while to check it out just based on that.

bubbakick - the sniper/gremlin was already OOP by the time I started playing disc golf (about 20 months ago I started), so I never tried them out.  Now that they aren't made any longer, I don't want to try something like that out just to get myself hooked on something that is harder and harder to get!

[Bruce Brakel]

The Ching Sniper was the one that Innova released as the Hobbit but then had to change the name to, anybody, anybody? 

[stpitner]

well, i just cheated and looked it up, but why in the world would Innova even consider naming a disc The Hobbit?  that's crazy!

[damonshort]

So, the Shark is the mid for the casual player.  Lots of two-disc casuals throw them.  Once you develop any skill it is too flippy and you switch to a Roc.  ..It's a beginner disc.  Period.

Well I wouldn't go that far; it's one of Schweberger's favorites, for one.

It *is* beginner-friendly though; not long, but it will go where you throw it more consistently than a lot of others. I used to throw it all the time (I still think to myself, when I've got an upshot anywhere between 50-150 ft, "Shark Shot"...) and I've starting fooling around with it again lately in practice... but it left my bag when I developed more consistency w/ a Roc, Coyote etc. since those have more glide and distance, and I started carrying a bunch more discs (not that that's a wise idea) and basically ran out of room. Still like it though. 



(...closest smiley to a Shark I could find....)

[Bruce Brakel]

well, i just cheated and looked it up, but why in the world would Innova even consider naming a disc The Hobbit?  that's crazy!

Because they have discs named Orc, Dragon, Pegasus and Roc?  Innova likes fantasy world themed discs.  Is the Hobbit the one they wound up calling the Goblin?  I really don't remember. 

[stpitner]

it looks like the Hobbit was renamed to the Skeeter from what I found... but at first I was thinking that Hobbit might have been trademarked somehow, but now I'm not sure.  I know that back in the beanie baby craziness, there was all sorts of stuff that needed to be renamed because they tried to trademark a name already trademarked (eg. Blizzard the tiger - balked at by Dairy Queen, Doodle the Rooster - balked at by Chic-fil-a, and there were quite a few others that I can't remember)

[Working Stiff]

the sniper/gremlin was already OOP by the time I started playing disc golf (about 20 months ago I started), so I never tried them out.  Now that they aren't made any longer, I don't want to try something like that out just to get myself hooked on something that is harder and harder to get!

The Gremlin is OOP?  I'm out of the loop!  I just saw about 7 or 8 of them at a Dick's just the other day. 

I totally missed the Hobbit incident.

Wasn't the Gremlin what Innova called the Sniper?  I could be confused.  What the (bleep) is a Goblin? 

There are so many discs out there that I don't throw, I can't keep them all straight.   I had a guy asking me about an Archangel last week, and for the life of me I could not remember a thing about it.   

[stpitner]

lol, Archangel is a speed 8 driver, only available in DX plastic.  It's pretty easy to flip, and very commonly used in lower weights.  Great beginner driver.

Gremlin and sniper I believe have a connection on the name.

The Goblin came out last year (maybe the end of '05?) before the Skeeter I do believe.  It's pretty much a good glide, mostly straight mid with a slight amount of fade at the end (so pretty much just like a lot of other discs out there).  I personally see more people throwing the Skeeter out there than the Goblin, so Innova may have released them too close to one another not enabling people to try out the new stuff for a while first before bringing out even more new stuff.

[Mukey]

I personally see more people throwing the Skeeter out there than the Goblin, so Innova may have released them too close to one another not enabling people to try out the new stuff for a while first before bringing out even more new stuff.

Ahh, Innova! Love their discs, hate their marketing. Love Discraft's marketing, but I just haven't put enough time in them to switch to the D-side completely, yet. 

[Working Stiff]

I personally see more people throwing the Skeeter out there than the Goblin, so Innova may have released them too close to one another not enabling people to try out the new stuff for a while first before bringing out even more new stuff.

Ahh, Innova! Love their discs, hate their marketing. Love Discraft's marketing, but I just haven't put enough time in them to switch to the D-side completely, yet. 

I ran a pro shop at a disc golf course (just one of many job duties, not as cool a job as it sounds) and Innova drove me crazy.  A new disc would come on the market and you actually had to call Innova and ask them what the flight of the disc was so you could try to sell one.  It would be over a year before you would get any updated posters from them that listed that disc, and by then you had two more new discs in stock that were not on their posters.  When the Innova web site first came on-line, I would have discs in stock for months before they were on the web site.  90% of my customers were recreational players, and they found out everything they knew about what disc to buy from my staff and those promotional posters on my bulletin board.  Innova made it hard to sell them anything new.  I remember considering dropping the Cheetah from my inventory because I'd had some for a year and 1/2 and they sold so slowly.  Then I finally got a poster from Innova with the Cheetah on it and it became my # 2 selling disc behind the Aviar.

In contrast, Steve Howle at Lightning Discs used to hustle me posters, banners, displays and basically anything I needed.  When he switched from airplane names to the number names, I had a poster before I had the discs.  I sold a lot of Lightning Discs because of that.

[pickax]

You can find some discs out there with an HOB designation and a Skeeter stamp I believe.

[Abelardo Arenas]

That's right. Someone in our group had one. I forgot who. Maybe Ron Miller or one of the Esquivels.