Bevier Spring Warm-Up April 3rd, 2010

[tacimala]

Now that the ratings went official, something looks off with the calculations. Second round was far, far windier than the first and the whole day came out the same.

[Dan Michler]

Now that the ratings went official, something looks off with the calculations. Second round was far, far windier than the first and the whole day came out the same.

It appears they changed the way they calculate the official ratings.  If the layout is the same for both rounds, I believe they are taking the cumulative of all the rounds for the day to determine the ratings.  When I look at other tourneys that went on the ratings with this past update (Sterling, Bevier, Endicott), they also have identical ratings for both rounds.

If this was Chuck Kennedy's decision, it seems like a poor one.  Conditions are often different from Round 1 to Round 2 and that should be accounted for.

At the end of the day though, this shouldn't affect your overall player rating.  If its really windy in round 2, then your round 1 score will probably end up being artificially higher than it should have been, while the round 2 score will be lower by approximately the same amount.

[pickax]

If the calculated SSA for two different rounds on a layout is within 2, then ratings for multiple rounds will be combined to produce a unified SSA. An enterprising TD can specify that the two rounds are two different layouts if they think that weather was a significant factor between the rounds and want the rounds to be rated separately. But usually, there are more complaints when the ratings for a layout is different between rounds than the other way around.

[tacimala]

Yea I'm not really too worried about it, but I was a lot happier with my round 2 score than my round 1 score. My round 1 unofficial was 1007 I believe and round 2 was 1012, so it was odd to see them flip flop by 10-12 points each.

[OvEr HaNd AsSaSiN]

This is what i put on the TD report.

First round: Steady rain with winds between 20-30 mph.

Second round: Sunny with extreme wind conditions between 30-40 mph.

[pickax]

They only occasionally look at that info, but the ratings are all numbers driven.

[Tom McManus]

They only occasionally look at that info, but the ratings are all numbers driven.

Mike can you explain what you mean by this?

[pickax]

The decision to combine rounds (or leave them separate) for ratings purposes, is really only driven by the stats. It the average score for the same set of gators is the within two strokes, the rounds will get combined regardless if the TD lists the weather conditions as calm for one round and Katrina for the next. IIRC I don't think the conditions field in the TD report is used unless there is a strange anomaly For example, if the SSA for the two rounds was three or more, they might look at the round condition description to determine if it could be a data entry error or if the course did have radically different conditions that would explain the difference..

[pickax]

The other thing that comes up is that often times the windier round is R2. Typically this would make R2 scores worse, but then there are always a few people that learn a thing or two during R1 and throw better despite more difficult conditions thus evening out the SSA.

[Dan Michler]

The other thing that comes up is that often times the windier round is R2. Typically this would make R2 scores worse, but then there are always a few people that learn a thing or two during R1 and throw better despite more difficult conditions thus evening out the SSA.

which is statistical proof that practicing the course before you play it is always a good idea!  i'm talking to you McManus!

[tacimala]

So in this specific instance, wouldn't the ratings have been different? Clearly the scores were higher the second round, regardless of learning curve.

[pickax]

Were they more than 2 strokes different? One other thing that factors into the difference between unofficial ratings and official ratings is the number of non-gators. If there are a large number of non-gators, then the unofficial ratings may be skewed as it doesn't know who is a gator and who isn't. If you want specifics for this event, you'll have to go to the ask Chuck thread on the PDGA forum.

[tacimala]

I figured as much. I mean I understand the general concepts of the ratings and what not, but the nitty gritty I figured I'd ask someone a little more educated about it.

If I'm looking for a passive-aggressive answer related to my question, I'll be sure to ask Chuck.

[damonshort]

Were they more than 2 strokes different? One other thing that factors into the difference between unofficial ratings and official ratings is the number of non-gators. If there are a large number of non-gators, then the unofficial ratings may be skewed as it doesn't know who is a gator and who isn't. If you want specifics for this event, you'll have to go to the ask Chuck thread on the PDGA forum.

...looks like it was roughly 2.5 strokes. At any rate, an *average* of 2 shots' difference for the entire field "not making a difference" seems a little extreme. Seems like it ultimately didn't make much difference as far as average rating for the 2 rounds though