2012 Chicago Cubs

[CEValkyrie]

Epstein, Hoyer, & McCleod hired. What a change in the organization at for the first time the Cubs have a long term plan and philosophy.

I'm interested in seeing how their philosophy of taking pitches affects next year. Boston had 3 guys in the top 25 of taking pitches per at bat. I'm most interested in what happens with Big Z, Soriano, and the free agent market. After seeing the movie money ball this is exciting. I don't expect the Cubs to win next year but things can change in a hurry. I keep saying this. The Central Division is not very good. I can be won by anyone.

[Dan Michler]

More impressive is they had 5 of the top 14 in the AL for on base %.  Its hard to not score runs when you have guys on base that often.  Bill James was Theo's advisor in Boston, so its pretty obvious he buys into the advanced metrics pretty heavily.  

I don't know of any advanced statistics that say Soriano is a solid player.  Soriano's WAR (wins above replacement) was 6th from the bottom among everyday NL outfielders last season.  

I know Theo said in an interview yesterday that he still thinks Soriano has alot left in him, but I really doubt he actually believes that in his own mind.  Just one of those things you have to say about a guy still under contract.

[pdga#7648]

just kidding. I'm actually anxious to see what comes of this hiring. Got to be a big bright light at the end of a usually darkass tunnel for Chicago fans?

[CEValkyrie]

I don't know of any advanced statistics that say Soriano is a solid player.  Soriano's WAR (wins above replacement) was 6th from the bottom among everyday NL outfielders last season.  

There is no doubt that Soriano sucks right now. I'm interested to see if they give him away for nothing, release, bench, or any other scenario. Who knows. mabye he'll buy in and start looking at some pitches. Maybe he'll make some changes. Will they come in with the burn down the barn and get all the rats out approach. I still think Z is a decent pitcher. He's definitely not the #1. We'll see what happens with him.

[Chainmeister]

just kidding. I'm actually anxious to see what comes of this hiring. Got to be a big bright light at the end of a usually darkass tunnel for Chicago fans?

I agree.  I am not a Cubs fan but think things are  looking up for them. Hoopla aside, it looks like the team  has a plan and will play smarter both on the field and in the front office. This may not mean much in 2012 which may be why Quade still has a job. However,over the next few years they will become one of the better clubs in the NL.

Soriano is a bad contract but not a bad guy.  If his contract makes him unmovable the only question is whether he belongs on the field, in the dugout or on the shelf. He will no longer play just because they are paying a lot of money. He will play if he is the best option in left field.  If a better option is around or if there is a kid who deserves playing time Soriano may sit.   Whether he is worth the money on his contract is no longer an issue.  He still has value to the club but not commensurate with what they are paying him. 

[pdga#7648]

One of the better clubs in the NL?  I highly doubt that, but yes, they should be a better team!

[Chainmeister]

One of the better clubs in the NL?  I highly doubt that, but yes, they should be a better team!

They have enough budget, they have a higher payroll than most.  They now seem to have a much better chance of spending that money wisely.  Yes, a big budget does not guarantee success.  The Twins, Rays and Cards have shown that a well managed club can succeed without spending like the Yankees. However, the reality is that money talks in baseball and the teams that have money generally do better if they are not run by fools. http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team

In the last decade the Cubs have become bigger spenders. There seems to be a good chance that they are no longer run by fools.  Best?  Who knows?  Series?  Who knows.  amongst the upper echelon?  Well, that seems like a good bet within a couple years.  This comes from a fan of a team that was formerly "all in". No Kool-Aid in my bottle.

[pdga#7648]

They've had a higher payroll than most for years haven't they? and where did that get them?  I agree they should be better, but one of the best is a farrrrrrrrrrrrr reach!

[pdga#7648]

until they go get a pitching staff, and a few more Starlin Castro's, they will probably be the same Cubs for the next few years?  I will come to this topic in 2-3 years, to see if the are one of the best in the NL.  Philly, Mil, L.A., S.F., Atlanta, and always St.Louis has pitching and hitters to be atop the NL for years to come! There is 6 of the 16 NL teams.  and you can't count out the Reds.


Like Dan said. I don't think they even go after Fielder now.  I think Theo will get a good coaching staff before he goes after big name players??  Time will tell though.  This may be a better topic to watch than the Pujols watch that may start in 6 days. Cards have 5 days after the Series to sign him before he hits the market!

[Dan Michler]

Theo's first official move.  He picked up the 1 year option on Aram for $16M instead of buying him out for $2M.  Aram declined the option and instead opted for free agency.  So, it saves the Cubs $2M and gets us another draft pick once Aram signs somewhere else.  Aramis might be a solid pickup for somebody.  But, he's 33 years old, has constant injury concerns, and seems to hit about .150 the first 2 months of every season.  I wouldn't trust him for more than 1 or 2 more seasons, if that.  He'll most likely make some other GM look bad when he gets a 3 or 4 year deal.  There are alot of teams that are desperate at the 3B position.

Who will play 3B for the Cubs in 2012?

[CEValkyrie]

Who will play 3B for the Cubs in 2012?

Good riddance ARAM! 

The Cardinals just won the World Series with a guy who hit 10HR's and 55 RBI's at 3B. The transformation has begun.

I have a feeling Big Z will be back pitching for the Cubs next year.

[Chainmeister]

Theo's first official move.  He picked up the 1 year option on Aram for $16M instead of buying him out for $2M.  Aram declined the option and instead opted for free agency.  So, it saves the Cubs $2M and gets us another draft pick once Aram signs somewhere else.  Aramis might be a solid pickup for somebody.  But, he's 33 years old, has constant injury concerns, and seems to hit about .150 the first 2 months of every season.  I wouldn't trust him for more than 1 or 2 more seasons, if that.  He'll most likely make some other GM look bad when he gets a 3 or 4 year deal.  There are alot of teams that are desperate at the 3B position.

Who will play 3B for the Cubs in 2012?

Good poker move by Theo.  Am I missing something?  Why would Ramirez turn down $16 M.  Is he really worth anything close to that?

[Dan Michler]

Poker is a good analogy Dave.  And Ramirez didn't hide his cards very well at all.  He made comments on the last day of the season that indicated he would opt for free agency.  I'm sure his agent wasn't too happy about that with the $2M on the table.

He knows he isn't getting $16M annually from anybody, but 3yr $30-35M is probably realistic with his recent offensive performance.  If he took the $16M and then got hurt next year or underperformed (pretty likely), his value would plummet.  Better for him to get the $30M now while he still can.  Basically, Aramis is betting against himself, which is smart considering his age and injury history.

I'm not saying good riddance.  The guy gave us alot of production over the years and helped us to 3 of the more successful seasons we've had in my lifetime.  Its not his fault Hendry did his job so poorly.  He was a good Cub, but its time for us to go younger.

[CEValkyrie]

Doug. I may have removed a post of yours. I just saw I had 2 posts and was removing it. I might have removed yours. Sorry.

[stpitner]

that's ok, Doug's posts aren't needed on a Cubs thread talk anyway

I agree - smart of Theo to get out of the $2M by picking up the $16M contract - what would be the worst that happens?  The Cubs get another year (that would probably be the last decent year) from Aramis.  I don't want Vitters to come up.  It's going to have to be some journeyman or some short term solution until some home grown talent shows up.  It's going to be tough to want to wait that long!

Build around Castro and Garza.  I know Garza has that will to win.  Hopefully lots of the other players want that too.  I don't think the Cubs will go quite to the extreme of the Marlins, but the Marlins have been good in years past because they flood it with young kids that have a passion to play, and once they start wanting the paycheck they get traded for 3 more prospects that have the passion to play.  That's part of the difference between the 2003 Josh Beckett and the 2011 Josh Beckett.

[Dan Michler]

Scott, I agree we'll have some journeyman playing 3B next year.  There is nobody in our farm system ready to make the jump at 3B.  Figure we'll probably start the year with Castro, Barney, Soto, and Marlon Byrd up the middle.  Soriano in LF.  So, we don't know who our 2012 starting 3B, 1B, RF will be.  Maybe Brett Jackson wins the OF job out of spring training?  Figure on Garza, Dempster, Wells in the rotation with ? on Zambrano and Cashner?

[pdga#7648]

that's ok, Doug's posts aren't needed on a Cubs thread talk anyway

cause most of ya can't handle the truth! 

[pdga#7648]

Doug. I may have removed a post of yours. I just saw I had 2 posts and was removing it. I might have removed yours. Sorry.

no problem Brett.

[Dan Michler]

2 former Twins I think the Cubs may consider in free agency this year.
1. Michael Cuddyer. He's a veteran short-term solution who can play 1B, 3B, and OF.  He's a .260 15-20 HR kind of guy.
2.  Jason Kubel.  30 year old lefty slugger OF.  He had a monster year in 2009, but fell off badly when they opened that new ballpark in Minneapolis where nobody seems to hit for any power.  He's an injury risk.  He has 25+HR potential.

Neither guy is going to be a season changer for the Cubs.  But they are above average short-term solutions until we can build up our farm system.

And I still wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs end up making a serious run at Prince Fielder.  I know people like to speculate that he's going to break down because he's a big guy, but all I see is a guy who hasn't played less than 157 games his entire career.  Thats impressive.  Pujols can't say that.  He's only 28 next year.  You'll almost never find a bigtime free agent younger than that.  I still think he's a good long-term investment.  If I was Theo I'd be willing to commit to Prince for 7 years, if necessary, at $20-22M per year.  That extra weight would probably serve him well in those freezing cold April games at Wrigley.

[CEValkyrie]

Quade fired.