Am Worlds Preview - Greater Milwaukee Open

[discglfr]

I was really excited to see some Illinois disc golfers show up this past weekend for the event.   

Congrats to Barrett White, Dana Vicich, Paul Pazazin, and Gary Camp for all winning their respective divisions. 

Ter

[discglfr]

I'm not taking any personal offense to these courses so please don't read my post that way but ... I don't necessarily agree with the idea that they are really "deuce or die" with regards Dretzka Old, New, or Dineen.  If that's really the case then I think about 99% of the participants 'died' while trying to play them.

I consider courses like Vollrath, Bevier, or West Park "deuce or die" because if you don't deuce 65 to 80% of the holes you have no chance of cashing.  This even holds true from a pro perspective where Mike Schwieger had some of the hottest rounds and still didn't get more than than 60% deuces. 

Did they play as challenging as they possibly could have?  Certainly not.  However, I don't think I'd label them deuce or die IMHO.

As a major part of this Am Worlds Preview I will be entering nearly 12,500 scores into a spreadsheet to look at each hole's score distribution.  From there the PDGA will decide if it is a good idea to move any of the pin locations (where applicable).  I'll keep you guys posted.

PS - The advanced winner, Dana, went 15 under on those 3 courses.  That's an average of 5 under per course.  Does that scream deuce or die?  If you were arguing from Schwieger's perspective you see that he shot -30 for those same 3 courses.  That's pretty good golf (as shown by the unofficial ratings) and those scores are still far less than if he played 54 holes at Vollrath or West Park.

Ter

Dretzka Old---This course is played from the short tees, with a mix of pin placements.  Its a pretty simple, deuce or die type course from the shorts.

Dretzka New---Had some fun and interesting holes.  Mostly open with a few tight holes in the woods.  This is also a short, deuce or die type course.

Dineen---Very open holes.  A few with some length.  Deuce or die course.

Brown Deer---ALOT of tight tunnel shots, with a few longer open holes.  This course is alot of fun and will really challenge everybody.  This is a great course.

[Dan Michler]

I wasn't attacking the courses at all.  I like some deuce or die courses.  I guess I consider any course where I have to shoot atleast a few under par to have a decent round in advanced a "deuce or die" course.  I'm sure alot of people will enjoy these courses, and those same people better get some deuces or they will die   

Obviously they aren't the Des Moines courses where par is 1000 rated golf.  Do I wish that they were?  I guess so.  But its going to be an AWESOME time for everybody who plays.  I can't wait!

Also, I doubt its easy to run a tourney on 4 courses simultaneously, and the GMO was run very smoothly and timely with no problems that I was aware of.  Terry did an excellent job.

[discmonkey]

I think it's also easy to underestimate the other courses when Brown Deer is soooo much harder than the others.  On their own, Dineen and Dretzka are nice, challenging courses (I would never call Dretzka a deuce or die, btw).  When played right after or before Brown Deer, they seem a little easier than they really are.  Then again, compared to Brown Deer, every course I've ever played is easy.  I guess I'm with a lot of others in wishing that a lot more courses would be  more like Brown Deer and less like Dineen.  Either way, I can't wait until worlds and a below par score on any of those courses during worlds will have me thrilled.

[Dan Michler]

i dont think i am underestimating them.  last year at fairfield, -6 was 1000 rated.  at dretzka old and new, -7 is 1000 rated.  i would say fairfield is comparable in score to both of the dretzka courses, and the numbers from last week would agree with me.  maybe that isn't deuce or die golf, i don't know.  obviously dretzka has alot of different setups and could go from a course you must shoot under par at to a course you would like to shoot par at.

[Jon Brakel]

It has been a while since I played Dretzka and I haven't played Brown since before it was pulled years ago so I assume it has been redesigned not to mention I don't remember it very well.

Just commenting on the deuce or die thoughts. To me a deuce or die hole is a hole where a majority of the field can reach the basket and throwing straight at the basket is the preferred route. In my opinion a deuce or die hole offers little or no risk vs reward shots. So, a 300 foot hole where the basket is on a hill leading down to a lake/ob where there is a small landing area in front of the basket and a safer, larger landing area short and to the right of the basket, would not, by my definition, be a deuce or die hole. You have a risk vs reward for going for the deuce and you have a choice of a safer drive to go for the long putt or pick up the three.

In my opinion, deuce or die courses should not be in a Worlds but do not mistake this post for having an opinion on the courses being played. Just because someone can shoot under par threes does not mean that the course is not worthy.

It would be nice to get away from par 3 courses for Worlds but is just not realistic at this time. There aren't enough non-par 3 courses yet.

[tacimala]

You'll like the Kalamazoo worlds next year then Jon! Timber Ridge is par 66 I believe and with the changes at Meyer Broadway and Oshtemo, there are a ton of tough holes with some good distance. Kimball Pines also adds a lot of difficulty with the setup there.

[SERG]

Also, I doubt its easy to run a tourney on 4 courses simultaneously, and the GMO was run very smoothly and timely with no problems that I was aware of.  Terry did an excellent job.

Terry and Lifetime Disc Sports did a tremendous job running the event. I wasn't aware of any "real" problems that arose. We were done each day in a timely manner and the awards ran smooth and quick! I know people really appreciated being able to get back on the road early.

Brown Deer will only get more difficult. The woods aren't fully grown in yet. The best score of -3 by Fernando Brown (a 1000+ rated player) shows you the difficulty of this course. I believe most of the holes here were even the shorter positions. The Great Lakes Disc Golf Club, Terry and Mark did a great job on the design (and re-design) of this course. In my opinion, the best course right now in Milwaukee.

I think the Dretzka Old course had a great mixure of hole locations. Baskets 2 and/or 3 could be moved to make someone really earn a birdie. Hole 13 could be moved higher on the hill making a hyzer (rhbh) more challenging. These changes could take away a few more birdies off someone's card.

Either way, I had a great time and look forward to Worlds...As we seen this weekend, home course doesn't mean a thing.

[can't putt]

I had a great time at the GMO, and agree with the posts above in congratulating Terry on a well run event.  Brown Deer is definately the highlight course, but the combination of the four courses offered a good test for the amateur field as a whole.  Taken together, there was some challenge for better players while avoiding major frustration for those less skilled.  A quick look at the amateur results shows a good spread of scores with a mean advanced rated score right around even par.  The few issues that arose (course maps, tees at Dineen) are being addressed before Worlds.

The trophies were sweet, and it was nice to see a reasonable rec payout, especially given the small rec field.

Thanks, Terry!