i need a new driver

[jimmy stackhouse]

Hey guys, i just lost my 175 champian beast and I'm thinking about buying a champ orc. I'm a 14 year old back hand thrower that can throw about 280 feet. do you think its wise to shitch to the orc.And what weight should i use for max distence. I'm open to any other drivers, any seggestions?

[mirth]

if you thought your beast was flipping a little too much to the right then an orc might be a good choice.

oddly enough, you may be able to pick up more distance with a lighter disc, like 170ish.

[jimmy stackhouse]

hey this is jimmy and i was also thinking about the new pro wraith because i heard that it got a 11 speed rating and a 5 glide. It sounds like a must buy to me. What do you guys think?

[Bruce Brakel]

The Wraith is going to be a little too overstable for a lot of players, especially the ones throwing less than 325 feet currently with high performance discs.  

Discs, unlike sports cars, do not generate their own speed.  A fast disc is more like a fast bicycle.  Fast for players with the skills.  What fast means is that with normal spin it can be thrown at higher speeds without flipping and it has a sharp edged aerodynamic profile.

[CEValkyrie]

Here is what i'd do if I were you. I'd buy a bunch of drivers for cheap off ebay. Watch some disc golf DVD's of the top players in the country & play lots of rounds with the best players in the area. Observe what types of shots they throw & what their form looks like. Go out and practice throwing drives each day. Find out what each disc does. Your game with go thru changes as you throw & you'll eventually find somd plastic that you can stick with.

[Cannon Boy]

Brett knows what he is talking about.  But if you are short on cash you can look for discs in rivers or swamps.  I got to throw a large spectrum of discs in fields to train when I first started.  I used to go into the river behind 14 at fairfield when it was 4 1/2 feet deep and find tons of discs.  But I have gotten to lazy, now I just buy on ebay or at tourneys.  I am probably going to buy a wraith on Ebay and check it out soon.  If it can do what innovas ratings say it can I will be amazed.  

[Bruce Brakel]

Nothing beats throwing at the field to get better quickly.  

[Dan Michler]

I suggest you try a 165-170g Pro Starfire.

[Bruce Brakel]

I suggest you try a 165-170g Pro Starfire.

I think Dan is seriously offering good advice here, and not just kidding.  I think if he was kidding he would have either said, "max weight Monster," or "Optimizer."

The Orion LS would be another disc in that stability range that might work for you.

[Younk]

I suggest you try a 165-170g Pro Starfire.

At the last tournament I heard a couple people talking about starfires and wanting specific colors.  Does the color really make a difference in the flight characteristics or is it all superstitious belief.  With the hundreds of discs out there it is hard enough to find just the right disc but if I have to worry about color now too I might go nuts

[mirth]

only buy & throw the orange DX rocs. Those are the best

[Younk]

only buy & throw the orange DX rocs. Those are the best

Thanks for the help Al

OH yeah and Jimmy I'm really liking the QK from Discwing (168g)

[Bruce Brakel]

I suggest you try a 165-170g Pro Starfire.

At the last tournament I heard a couple people talking about starfires and wanting specific colors.  Does the color really make a difference in the flight characteristics or is it all superstitious belief.  With the hundreds of discs out there it is hard enough to find just the right disc but if I have to worry about color now too I might go nuts

Generally speaking I'm an Objectivist.  I think reality exists apart from whatever you or I might believe about it.  We might have some latent god-like powers that allow us to participate in Creation occasionally, but that is mostly the exception to the rule.

However, when it comes to specific colors, weights and runs, suddenly reality goes into Silly Putty mode!  In my Subjectivist disc golf universe white Z Crushes are really flippy, like Sidewinder flippy, and have huge glide.  Yellow and orange are stable and have more fade.  But Mills thinks sparkle blue Tsunamis are different from the red and those all flew the same for me: into the lake, into the lake, into the lake and into the lake!  

I think there are differences in colors and runs and that certain speed/spin combinations bring them out.  For my technique, the color of a Crush matters but the color of a Tsunami does not [if I'm within 100 yards of a lake anyway.]

[Chainmeister]

Generally speaking I'm an Objectivist.  I think reality exists apart from whatever you or I might believe about it.  We might have some latent god-like powers that allow us to participate in Creation occasionally, but that is mostly the exception to the rule.

However, when it comes to specific colors, weights and runs, suddenly reality goes into Silly Putty mode!  In my Subjectivist disc golf universe white Z Crushes are really flippy, like Sidewinder flippy, and have huge glide.  Yellow and orange are stable and have more fade.  But Mills thinks sparkle blue Tsunamis are different from the red and those all flew the same for me: into the lake, into the lake, into the lake and into the lake!  

I think there are differences in colors and runs and that certain speed/spin combinations bring them out.  For my technique, the color of a Crush matters but the color of a Tsunami does not [if I'm within 100 yards of a lake anyway.] [/quote]
OK.  Lets say you get a Crush and its in one of those bad colors.  Can you remedy this by talking to Dr. Dye or by going to the laboratory in your own basment?  Why get a blue Starfire?  Well, blue is not very common on the course, unless its near a lake full of Bruce's Tsunami's.  I figure that if you see something blue its your disc.  That sure beat walking around in circles talking to yourself when you could have been playing golf.

[Jon Brakel]

I don't think there is a bad color. I think there are runs and plastic formulations (which might coincide with color) that are good or bad for certain spin/speed combinations. The only ones that I notice are the new 150 Flicks seem a little more over stable than the first runs and the Red QK seems more overstable than my same weight white QK. However, I don't have a large enough sample of either disc to make a firm claim to the whole pool of discs based on those local observations.

[MDR_3000]

I say color doesn't matter. Just pick up a disc and learn to throw that one until you lose it. Repeat.

[Mike S]

Discraft is known for being inconsistent color-to-color.  Some colors are more flippy and some are more overstable.  I dont think it matters with innova, but there is definitely quite a bit of variation regardless of color.  I have two "identical" teebirds that feel completely different.  Same weight and color, same year.  One is very flexible and has a very flat top, and the other one is very stiff and domey.  I like the flatter teebirds and starfires, and domier orcs.

[Bruce Brakel]

Discraft is known for being inconsistent color-to-color.  Some colors are more flippy and some are more overstable.  I dont think it matters with innova, but there is definitely quite a bit of variation regardless of color.  I have two "identical" teebirds that feel completely different.  Same weight and color, same year.  One is very flexible and has a very flat top, and the other one is very stiff and domey.  I like the flatter teebirds and starfires, and domier orcs.

This is funny because Mills switched from Innova to Discraft saying just the opposite.  Now he throws sparkle blue Tsunams and orange First Run Buzzzes, and whatever colored whatever.  There are too many players playing our series who want this mold, this color, this weight in Innova for me to think there is any difference between Discraft and Innova on this issue.  

One of the Discraft guys, maybe Pad Timmons or maybe Jim Kenner himself, told me that when they add color to the plastic it does change the plastic some and can have an effect on durability and flexibility which bears on stability.  But he said that what matters more is whether every detail of the process is standardized, and whether they can get the injection mold operator to follow the standard.  

[mirth]

lending towards the topic of manufacturer inconsistencies, I've heard a few people say recently that Innova's been under weighing discs, sometimes by up to a few grams.

[Bruce Brakel]

This is an ongoing problem [from the PDGA's perspective anyway].  Whenever a disc gets popular at max weight a manufacturer is going to do more max weight runs.  In a tightly controlled run there will be a three gram variance.  If 180 is max weight and the target weight, the run will produce 181s, 180s, and 179s.  There might even be a few 182s and 178s.  They don't throw out the 181s and 182s.  They mark them 180.  

Players who throw only max weight actually are less likely to be throwing the same weight disc every time than players who throw a disc three grams under.  There is no reason to mismark a disc that is not over max weight unless they really need to mark up some discs to max weight that are under to meet the demand.  Then they are usually going to mark up the ones that are light a gram before they mark up ones that are light three grams.

Note to self:  buy gram scale today.