The Brass Sidebet Poll

[Bruce Brakel]

Ooops.  There's a wordiness limit on the poll question.  Diana will be running it, and there will be a published payout chart that she will stick to. 

Feel free to discuss or ask questions. 

[Cannon Boy]

I would be interested in it.  You could call it "Let it Ride"

[SIUFrolf]

Just to clarify, you can pick and choose which event you want to "let it ride". It's not like if I sign up for it at the first event, i'm in it for the others I play? I don't mean to sound dense, I just want to make sure I'm reading it right.

[Bruce Brakel]

Right.  It would be run with a sign up sheet like the ace pool and at each event you could get in or not.  And, there would be only one pool, so its not like we'd do one for Advanced Women and another for Advanced Masters.  They can get in the Advanced day pool, or not.

When the PDGA first encouraged TDs to do player packs we did this at our tournaments in Michigan.  By now a lot of players have gotten used to player packs because they have been mandatory for a few years.  We also did this with the Pros for cash.  We did a $40 entry fee with a $20 sidebet. 

[SIUFrolf]

Awesome.  I would totally be interested in something like that.

[CEValkyrie]

Last year the series averaged 25 advanced players per event. Without IOS #6 which was trophy only & 2 advanced players played, the series averaged 30 players per event. That would be $375 to $450 added brass to payouts if all players were in the side bet game.

[Bruce Brakel]

I think our Advanced numbers will really go up this year.  Some of our intermediates are graduating and I think they will continue to play our tournaments.  A lot of players will want to get an invitation to Milwaukee Worlds and that should boost attendance.  And, we've added another good course to the mix. 

Diana and I have been talking about the logistics of the Brass Sidebet and I think it will run smoothly.  She will have a payout chart to follow that does not require her to do any math.  She'll mark the leaderboard cards for the players who are in.  When I'm doing payouts, she'll do sidebet payouts.  The tricky part will be the Am Masters who get in, but I think we can handle a process that only has one tricky part. 

[DougEDawg]

Right.  It would be run with a sign up sheet like the ace pool and at each event you could get in or not.  And, there would be only one pool, so its not like we'd do one for Advanced Women and another for Advanced Masters.  They can get in the Advanced day pool, or not.

When the PDGA first encouraged TDs to do player packs we did this at our tournaments in Michigan.  By now a lot of players have gotten used to player packs because they have been mandatory for a few years.  We also did this with the Pros for cash.  We did a $40 entry fee with a $20 sidebet. 

If I'm reading this right, then if I was to chose to get in on the side bet and I was in intermediate, then I would be up against anyone in the intermediate divisions (men and women), or would I be up against all divisions playing that day?

[Bruce Brakel]

You would be up against everyone playing that day who chose to get in if we do it on the lower day.  Obviously this is a "good bet" for intermediates and a "bad bet" for almost everyone else on the lower day, which is probably why the poll is showing a 50/50 split there. 

Right now I don't have a volunteer to run it on the lower day, and since the lower day has almost maxed out on attendance a couple of times it is not like we need to do anything to make the lower day more attractive.  So right now, getting it up and running on the lower day is not my priority. 

I have an underused lower day player/upper day volunteer volunteering to run it on the upper day.  This will give her something to do on the upper day and add intangible value to the upper day tournament. 

[Bruce Brakel]

Diana is running this on the upper day, Saturday, and I'm running running it on the lower day, Sunday.  Either day it is one pool for everyone who wants in and is playing in an amateur division.  If I said pros eligible to play am could get in, I take that back.  If a pro eligible to play am wants in, he or she has to play in an amateur division he or she is eligible to play. 

I'm posting the payout chart here, now.  Payouts are posted.

[DougEDawg]

I'm in for the sidebet.

[Bruce Brakel]

You're not in until you've handed 15 Brass to the girl or guy running it and have put your name on the list. 

[Jon Brakel]

You're not in until you've handed 15 Brass to the girl or guy running it and have put your name on the list.

LOL 

[CEValkyrie]

Bruce, do you think you can start a new thread on the brass side bet. Explain it & post the payouts. More players said they would have gotten in if they knew about it.

[Bruce Brakel]

I'll just revive this thread and put the information here and in a re-edited first post.

The Brass Sidebet was up and running at IOS #1.  Both days about 15 or 16 players got in.  There was a graduated payout to slightly less than the top half of the participants.  First place parlayed a 15 Brass player pack into an 85 Brass payout.  4th or 5th still got 45 or so.  Every brass buck collected went back into the payout.  I got in.  I was a loser.  I'll get in next time too. 

Diana is taking sign ups and brass for this side game at the registration table or the merch table.  You can give her your 15 Brass player pack and sign up, or not, whichever works for you.  If you have 15 brass left over from the last tournament you can get in with that, too.  If you want your player's pack and want to get in on the side bet too, I'll sell you an extra 15 brass at sign up time for $10 cash.  I can do that.  It's my brass! 

The Brass Sidebet payout runs off a payout chart we print in advance and it is also attached to this post as an Excel file. Each day any amateur can get in and you are playing against every amateur who got in that day, so it is not a good bet for most women and juniors, but is a fun thing for Advanced rated players on Saturday and Intermediates and good Rec players on Sunday.  At least one Rec player did o.k. on this but I forget who.  A junior did good on this too.

[Bruce Brakel]

The Brass Sidebet will be up and running at IOS #2.  If you want the Throw Discraft Player Pack and want in on the Brass Sidebet, I can sell you an extra player pack for $10. 

[Bruce Brakel]

The sidebet is gaining momentum on Saturday.  There was over 300 brass in the Sidebet at Rockford.  Congrats to Carl Spray for being the second and last Am Master to cash on the sidebet.  In the future the Saturday Sidebet will be open only to players competing in the Advanced division.  We don't have enough brain cells to get it done when the sidebet players are in different divisions and everyone is suffering from heat exhaustion and dehydration. 

The sidebet is dead in the water for Sunday.  The Sidebet requires about one hour of work from a non-playing volunteer.  The volunteer has to (A) collect the brass during registration, (B) mark the appropriate leaderboard cards with the designated Sidebet black triangle in the upper right corner, (C) bag the brass and (D) assist during payouts.  There is enough work here that it is hard to do this and play too.  We really need a pro or advanced player to do it.  I'm doing merch and "Hey Bruce!" during registration. 

[Bruce Brakel]

It looks like Diana is on the bus for Streamwood so the Advanced Sidebet is happening.  If you want in on this, don't forget.  If you don't want in, no pressure.  No more Advanced Masters in the Sidebet.  That is too confusing for Diana. 

[Bruce Brakel]

Well, in retrospect the Am sidebet was fun for those who got in, but in 2006 it never really developed its own momentum.  When Bill Lauwers and I ran it in 2001 and 2002, back when mandatory player packs were new and despised, the sidebet ran effortlessly.  35 out of 40 players would get in.  If I was not at tournament central for lack of space, they'd look around and find me.  In 2006 the concept did not sell itself. 

So, I don't think we'll do it in 2007.  When Bill and I did it back then, it was not officially part of the tournament.  It was a player organized side game.  If anyone wants to do it that way, I'm not opposed to accomodating that.  Maybe that was part of what made it fun back then.  I don't know.  I do know that the IOS has better player packs, payouts and CTPs than the MDGO, so maybe it is just not necessary.