WI Tour Economics & misc

[pickax]

What happened with the $250.00 from Hot Rags? Did that sponsorship money get added to the pros? If not what happen to it?

At the preference of Hot Rags the sponsorship was distributed pro rata to all divisions in ways that all players in those divisions would have a chance to benefit.  The pros accounted for for x% of the players so they got X% in Hot Rags Cash CTPs.  Anyone can win a CTP.  The amateur portion was given out in the Flight Life game that we did both days.  We gave out about 35 Flight Life discs that way.  These games consumed  about $225 of the $250.  I unilaterally spent the rest by transferring the left over Hot Rags stamped discs to the Throw Discraft Player Pack program.  We could have had a jumbo toss for five discs, but it was a long day. 

Why do ams need added cash? Ams should be helping to support the sport? Pros are what bring attention to the almost all sports. All sports a supported by amatuers. Directly or indirectly. And by support I do not mean that any portion of their entry fee should be givin back to the pros. But any sponsorship money should be givin to the pros IMHO. I don't play pro and I think that they should be getting any added cash at any tournaments. If it is a merch donation fine that is for ams. But cash should be for pros. That is how they make a living playing the sport.

It is not a question of do the ams need added cash. That's the wrong point of view. Hot Rags doesn't care if you are a great disc golfer or a lousy chucker. They want you to get into their store. It's a matter of how they want to spend their advertising money and the Lombard tournament was willing to take it. When over 75% of the players are ams, I'd put my money there too if I had something I wanted to advertise. They are not interested in growing the disc golf pro ranks. They are interested in growing their customer base.

[Mike Clark]

What happened with the $250.00 from Hot Rags? Did that sponsorship money get added to the pros? If not what happen to it?

At the preference of Hot Rags the sponsorship was distributed pro rata to all divisions in ways that all players in those divisions would have a chance to benefit.  The pros accounted for for x% of the players so they got X% in Hot Rags Cash CTPs.  Anyone can win a CTP.  The amateur portion was given out in the Flight Life game that we did both days.  We gave out about 35 Flight Life discs that way.  These games consumed  about $225 of the $250.  I unilaterally spent the rest by transferring the left over Hot Rags stamped discs to the Throw Discraft Player Pack program.  We could have had a jumbo toss for five discs, but it was a long day. 

Why do ams need added cash? Ams should be helping to support the sport? Pros are what bring attention to the almost all sports. All sports a supported by amatuers. Directly or indirectly. And by support I do not mean that any portion of their entry fee should be givin back to the pros. But any sponsorship money should be givin to the pros IMHO. I don't play pro and I think that they should be getting any added cash at any tournaments. If it is a merch donation fine that is for ams. But cash should be for pros. That is how they make a living playing the sport.

It is not a question of do the ams need added cash. That's the wrong point of view. Hot Rags doesn't care if you are a great disc golfer or a lousy chucker. They want you to get into their store. It's a matter of how they want to spend their advertising money and the Lombard tournament was willing to take it. When over 75% of the players are ams, I'd put my money there too if I had something I wanted to advertise. They are not interested in growing the disc golf pro ranks. They are interested in growing their customer base.

With that point of view Pros will never get the added cash they need to make a living off of this sport. No sport would be able to support their players if that was the aproach taken. When a company sponsors event they are paying for advertising of their company, product, or store. If they want to donate items for ams that is great. But added cash should go to Pros who play for money to make a living period. This is the way it is done in both skateboarding and paintball. I can not speak for other sports as I have not been involved in them. But it seems to me that that is the way it works. Otherwise how do players make a living playing a none team sport where their is an owner to pay them? Ams play for merch, Pros play for cash. When cash is available it should go to the pros.

[CEValkyrie]

You don't even want me to get started on this topic. Page 35 of DGWN just frustrates the hell outta me with players in the 9th, 13th, & 20th spots. This is why guys are not traveling.

[CEValkyrie]

You don't even want me to get started on this topic. Page 35 of DGWN just frustrates the hell outta me with players in the 9th, 13th, & 20th spots. This is why guys are not traveling.

This post has nothing to do with the WI Tour. Just my opinions about the pdga tour.

[SERG]

I'd like to thank Shawn for starting this discussion. It has really explained many things as well as learn what has been done with different TD personalities and types of tournaments. I have never ran a sanctioned event before but I am part of the Prairie Open committee this year. For those that are unaware, the Prairie Open is NOT being run by the university this year. I am learning first-hand exactly what Terry and Bruce are talking about regarding fees and the need/hope/genorosity of sponsorship. One of the goals we have this year is to be able to pay all the "mini fees" of the players through sponsorship; therefore creating a true 100% payout of entry fee. As previously stated, this is not easy.

I fight with idea/problem of trying to go to someone for sponsorship went literally it will do nothing for them or their business. Mainly, they are making a donation, plain and simple. I'm still asking people...all they can is say no, grab me by the shirt and toss me out of the store head over heels 

I've learned that payout is the fee minus all the deductions (learned this a little while ago) but I still find it hard to believe how many of the tour stops are so different in payout.

I guess more than anything I appreciate Terry explaining a lot of things here. As the state coordinator I feel you're doing a great job, especially by taking the time to visit boards like this and addressing concerns. From the fundraiser tournament I ran in 2004 I learned this is not an easy thing to do. You need plenty of friends, and if not friends, volunteers 

I don't think Shawn's initial question was answered: Why aren't there any Trophy Only tournaments? I'm assuming the answer lies within each TD of each stop. Has there ever been a thought to collaborate the TD's of the tour stops and put together a "uniform" entry fee system?

As Hamm stated earlier: "The tour has definately brought me out on weekends to have a great time and to meet awesome people" Maybe next year I can take some of their money!

[Mike Clark]

I fight with idea/problem of trying to go to someone for sponsorship went literally it will do nothing for them or their business. Mainly, they are making a donation, plain and simple. I'm still asking people...all they can is say no, grab me by the shirt and toss me out of the store head over heels 

IMHO:

You and the businesses that you are talking to should not be looking at anything the give, merch or cash, as a donation Donation is a dirty word to alot of people who are trying to make a  living especially a small business owner. They are probably struggling as it is. This is a marketing opurtunity for what ever business decides that they would like to sponsor the tournament. If you draw 200 people, not to mention the family and friends of the people playing, over a 2 day period and they contribute $200 dollars. That is $1.00 for every person they are reaching with there message. Posting flyers in places with your tournament sponsors on them will reach even more people and drive the cost down as well. This is very cheap advertising. They are reaching even more people in you have tournament tee shirts that lists all of your sponsors. You would have to have quite a few sponsor to deflect the cost of the tee shirt but it is still possible. Alot more people will say no than will say yes so you can never get discouraged. Even if you go $50 from 10 businesses that adds up in the end. And build relationships with sponsors. Then down the road you could get more as the feel thier message is being recieved.

The biggest part of all this is that when we do get sponsors. Disc golfers must patronize the businesses that do sponsor tournaments or there is not point in them sponsoring our tournaments. 1 hand must wash the other.

[Brian]

Do the people on here think that on-line disc retailers hurt the local ones?  Or is why a local disc retailer would be reluctant to pony up some cash?

[Bruce Brakel]

Terry, I think you are spot on especially in your last sentence. I think our IOS tournaments are a means to get to the sponsorship where we can offer pros something. Only time will tell, but I think increasing the ranks of interested and involved amateurs is the road to real pro sponsorship.

What happened with the $250.00 from Hot Rags? Did that sponsorship money get added to the pros? If not what happen to it?

At the preference of Hot Rags the sponsorship was distributed pro rata to all divisions in ways that all players in those divisions would have a chance to benefit.  The pros accounted for for x% of the players so they got X% in Hot Rags Cash CTPs.  Anyone can win a CTP.  The amateur portion was given out in the Flight Life game that we did both days.  We gave out about 35 Flight Life discs that way.  These games consumed  about $225 of the $250.  I unilaterally spent the rest by transferring the left over Hot Rags stamped discs to the Throw Discraft Player Pack program.  We could have had a jumbo toss for five discs, but it was a long day. 

Why do ams need added cash? Ams should be helping to support the sport? Pros are what bring attention to the almost all sports. All sports a supported by amatuers. Directly or indirectly. And by support I do not mean that any portion of their entry fee should be givin back to the pros. But any sponsorship money should be givin to the pros IMHO. I don't play pro and I think that they should be getting any added cash at any tournaments. If it is a merch donation fine that is for ams. But cash should be for pros. That is how they make a living playing the sport.

Ams are not getting added cash.  Ams are paying for all the costs and the Pros only pay their $2 fees.  The Brass is shiny and coin-like, but it is not cash.  Take it to Walgreens and see. 

The reason why Ams should get a good tournament is because they are paying for a good tournament.  If you are paying $100 for your kid to play Little League, or for you to play in an adult softball league, they spend that on uniforms, equipment, trophies and park use fees.  None of it funnels up to the Cubs. 

[Bruce Brakel]

Most TDs sponsor the pros with profits generated from amateur entry fees.  Most TDs do not offer trophy-only options because there is no profit in that.  I'll, break it down for you.  The IOS trophy-only entry fee is $14 for all divisions except juniors on days when we get a little confused.  Here are our prorata expenses on a $14 trophy-only player based on 125 amateurs playing that weekend:

$14.00 -- Income
-$7.50 -- Player pack
-$3.00 -- PDGA player fee
-$1.00 -- Sanctioning and Insurance per player
-$1.00 -- Trophy costs per player
-$0 to $2 -- Course use fee
-$1.50 -- CTPs

For us, we make a buck or break even on trophy-only players most of the time.  Sometimes we lose money on them, but not this year.  If we were providing added cash to the pros from our profits on the amateurs, we could not offer trophy-only options.