Innova Destroyer

[Working Stiff]

Disc Golf Values has the proto run of the Destroyer, the new Speed 12, Wraith-like driver from Innova.

Description:

PRE-RELEASE Innova Champion DESTROYER! If you think the Wraith goes far you aint seen nothin yet! I have thrown this disc and it is the next level of high speed driver! It has a slightly wider rim configuration than the Wraith (as pictured) but with similar flight characteristics to the Wraith. The BIG difference is it is a 12 on the speed scale. There is a total of 160 being pre-released as a fundraiser (not CFR) for the 2007 US Masters. They are PDGA approved and these will sell out fast. Most are in the 168-169g range as these are the test shot prototypes and not from a production run.

Speed 12, Glide 5, Turn -1 and Fade 3

Here is the link:

https://www.discgolfvalues.com/store/view_product.php?product=CE_DST&PHPSESSID=9b30a6c455679e792ea58389b0653937

From the PDGA message board, what Dave Dunipace says about the Destroyer:

Q: Dave, what can you tell us about the Destroyer, and do you expect it to be released in Champion or Star when it goes into regular production?

Dave D: The Destroyer will be in full production Monday. Mark got, what amounted to all the test shots for the Masters stamp. I am not sure why we started in Champion, but it seemed to test fine this time. We will run Star too at some point. DX is always a question mark with long range drivers. We will test it, but I don't have much confidence that it will work consistently.

I have had a chance to throw it and it appears to be something new for me. It won't replace the Wraith, but very well looks as if it will replace the Max for me. We have preliminarily rated the high speed turn to be -1, but I still had a difficult time turning it, and it always comes back. I can't say that for a Wraith, or even a TeeRex. The most unforseen thing with the Destroyer was its sidearm potential. It seems to be an excellent into the wind disc despite the slight high speed turn. Like the Wraith and other long range discs, it is highly nose sensitive. Any nose up means hyzer. The good news here is that it is a very long hyzer. I was throwing the lightest ones I could get, (167 & 168 gms), and I had no inclination to throw heavier at all.

I should also say that the Destroyer is not for the faint of arm. It works best with a lot of power behind it. Sidearms require less power than backhands, but still need driver power. To use this disc for backhand shots other than hyzers, you need at least 375 ft or more of power, or have the ability to throw with nose down.

Q: Would you say the same of a Wraith or TeeBird? I can throw 400 with a great pull, but average 300-360ish and I don't have any troubles with the either of said discs. Granted, I'm very green in the DG world. Any thoughts?

Dave D: If you can throw max weight Wraiths, you can throw this disc. If you can flip a TeeBird, you can throw this disc. A Max is the real test. If you can throw a Max, you want this disc.

[Dan Michler]

I am getting one in my bag only because I seriously love the name Destroyer.

[Working Stiff]

I'm holding out for the Annihilator. 

[ChrisPUTTS]

Maybe eventually they will come out with a disc named the Masturbator...

[Working Stiff]

Everything I heard about the Destroyer for the last two months has been "faster Wraith." I guess that was the hook, because in reality it is more overstable than the Wraith. Dave Dunipace is now saying it is a "faster TeeRex X."

I would not describe it as a faster Wraith. More like a faster TeeRex X. It is replacing my Max in my bag, which I use for wind, sidearms, and shots where the disc has to come back after a hard pull. It is a power disc, and probably will not be popular with players who can't throw fast, unless they use it for sidearm. It comes in weights from 168-175 gms. I have been throwing the lightest ones I could get, and have no inclination to throw anything over 170 gms at all.

So, I guess the new marketing ploy is "compare it to your most popular disc, even if it is nothing like your most popular disc." 

[stpitner]

The Star Destroyer is now available for ordering... they are limiting stores to 50 on their order.  Too bad I just received my 550 disc order from Innova!  I don't think I'll be able to order these right away... although I do like saying "Star Destroyer"... makes me want to have Darth Vader or a Stormtrooper dyed onto the disc lol.

[Working Stiff]

During one thread here there was a comment about the PDGA needing to make tougher standards on discs to limit how far the manufacturer's can go.  I guess Dave Dunipace was asked a question on the PDGA board about limiting the rim (or wing) length in response to the the length of the rim on the Destroyer.  His response was

I agree with your assessment of the wide rim. One of the technical spec limitations we asked the PDGA for was a rim width limitation for the very reason you stated. Plus discs like the Destroyer make big arms bigger and do little if anything to help anyone else. I don't think that is a good thing for disc golf. I have resisted making this disc for a couple of years trying to get the PDGA to see this logic. So far, no go.

It started a thread on the PDGA message board:

http://www.pdga.com/msgboard/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=719797&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

On the one hand I would love to see a slow down of the distance race.  I have seen some very nice courses re-designed just to accommodate the fact that a 300 ft hole is not what it was five years ago.  Especially in places like here where the land values severely limit the land available for disc golf, these new discs threaten to take the challenge out of most of our courses.  Unlike some other places that can just re-design the course to use more land or move to bigger plots of undeveloped land, we are mostly stuck with what we have. 

Just the other day I was trying out the new course in South Elgin and I deuced #8 twice using an Inferno.  Five years ago my disc would have been an Eagle or Cyclone, and if I had thrown one of those the other day I'd have had to have the putter working to deuce that hole.  It's not like I earned that extra D with practice and hard work.  Somebody designed a disc I could throw farther.  If you could turn back the calendar 10 years and go to South Elgin when Gazelles and Cyclones were the max D discs, my score for 18 holes goes up four or five strokes easily.  Just to protect the integrity of the game it would be nice to cap the distance these discs fly a little bit. 

On the other hand, the cynic in me questions Innova's motives.  Despite the hype of the Destroyer, some feel that discs like the Inferno or Quarter K are still faster.  One of my conspiracy-theory friends thinks that Gateway and Quest are ahead of Innova in the wide-rimmed driver race, and Innova would like the PDGA to bail them out by legislating the problem away.  I don't think I would go that far since Innova is selling the daylights out of the Wraith, but it's an interesting take on the world.  I thought the wide rim would eventually reach the point where someone released a disc you can't hold with a backhand grip, and that would be the limit.  I guess we are not there yet.

Anyway, I'm not sure I have a point.  I was just curious if anybody thinks the PDGA should be doing something to slow down the big distance discs, or is big D good and we should just keep on throwing the next new thing?

[pickax]

The problem with specifying rim width is that it doesn't deal with new design ideas like the bottom of either an Epic or the Turbo Putt. The Epic has a non-constant rim width, and leaving aside the outside nubs of the rim on the Turbo, the spiral on the underside would confuse the rim width issue as well. Having a rim width specification will hamper disc innovation. If you are just changing the width of the rim to create new discs, then, yes, rim width matters. If you are rethinking conventional disc design you could be handcuffed by a rim width specification. Then there are issues in how do you measure the rim width? If the inside of the rim is sloped or concave, at what point do you measure it?

I don't think adding a rim width specification is necessary.

[arendow]

The Star Destroyer is now available for ordering... they are limiting stores to 50 on their order.  Too bad I just received my 550 disc order from Innova!  I don't think I'll be able to order these right away... although I do like saying "Star Destroyer"... makes me want to have Darth Vader or a Stormtrooper dyed onto the disc lol.

Now Millenium just needs to release the "Falcon".

[stpitner]

The one thing that I think the wide-rimmed disc is doing is that it is harming the number of new players that will stick with a back-handed shot.  I've been noticing that a lot of casual players these days all throw side-arm.  That's more than likely because they buy this cool looking/sounding disc (eg. the MONSTER - hey! that's a cool name as they have no clue what they are buying) and then when they try to backhand it the disc hooks immediately and goes nowhere.  But wait... all these other people are throwing sidearm, maybe i should try that too, and then all of a sudden the disc seems to do a whole lot better.

Is this the case for everyone?  No, of course not, but I do feel that the wide-rimmed disc is introducing a lot of people to the sport in an improper manner.  Part of that is education, but part of that is somehow differentiating these discs in brick & mortar stores as well as online.  Forget explaining all of the plastic types, get these people some small rim discs to get them started first!

Innova East is already out of the Destroyer and Star Cro.  Oh well.  At least I got some Star Cro's earlier

[Working Stiff]

The one thing that I think the wide-rimmed disc is doing is that it is harming the number of new players that will stick with a back-handed shot.  I've been noticing that a lot of casual players these days all throw side-arm.  That's more than likely because they buy this cool looking/sounding disc (eg. the MONSTER - hey! that's a cool name as they have no clue what they are buying) and then when they try to backhand it the disc hooks immediately and goes nowhere.  But wait... all these other people are throwing sidearm, maybe i should try that too, and then all of a sudden the disc seems to do a whole lot better.

And that is kind of the point.  If you buy into the argument that a whole generation of players who do not throw backhand is bad for the sport, then that will be part of the legacy of the wide-rimmed driver.  None of the kids are throwing backhand.   They actually have to learn how to throw backhand.  If you can buy a disc that you can throw sidearm and never have to learn the maddening mechanics of the backhand drive, why not?

Educating the new player is easier said than done.  I used to actually beg new players not to buy Vipers, but their buddy told them it was the best disc and it had a badass hotstamp so no matter how much I warned them...they would buy it anyway.  I ran a pitch and putt course with two hyzer shots out of 18, and the Viper was always in my top 5 best selling discs.  Now, not only do we get to try to convince them that their buddy is wrong and the TeeRex is not the best disc for them but we also get to try to tell them they need to actually practice and learn to throw backhand.   Good luck with that.

[Bruce Brakel]

I can only hope we have a whole generation of players that do not throw backhand.     I need that advantage. 

[discmonkey]

Why is it up to the disc manufacturers to dumb down the discs because people won't learn the right way?  If someone is serious, they will most likely learn to play the right way (backhand).  If they are rec players, and get better results forehand (and they don't end up throwing their arm off), let 'em throw forehand.  Who cares what other people are doing.  Go sit at a ball golf driving range for a while.  You will most likely see most people hitting clubs they have no business hitting and using very incorrect form.  That doesn't stop Callaway from coming out with a new driver.

Also, if we had more courses like Brown Deer around here, it wouldn't matter how far the discs fly.  Accuraccy and consistency are the keys to great disc golf.  Long, innaccurate discs don't help with this.  The destoyer might help you play Fairfield better, but that's about it.  Just my .02

[can't putt]

Everyone should only throw one disc -- the original Frisbee.  Get rid of the bags, quad shocks, stools, golf carts, polo shirts, polyester, gay hiking boots, etc.  Put on a tie dye tee shirt, cutoffs and sandals, grow out your hair, and have fun.  Peace.

[mirth]

I'd give anything to go back to the days of carrying around a #2 slice, ram, and glow eclipse. Maybe a whippet too.

Oh, and my 10 year old blow fly!

[Chainmeister]

Still have my 1979 Whammo Moonlighter- original golf disc- in my car.  Lets play some one disc

[Working Stiff]

Lids tourneys are a blast on the old pitch & putt courses. 

OK, I guess instead of a Masters Division I need an "Old Plastic" division.  We can drive with XD's and putt with Super Puppies like in the good old days.  That would make me happier. 

Maybe I'll start the Disc Golf Luddites Association and get the Kitty Hawk Hooker back in production. 

[tacimala]

I was able to snag 4 of the stars from zonedriven and they showed up yesterday. Hoping to be able to get out and throw one today.

mirth I've got a #2 slice and Eclipse just waiting for you to buy!

[CEValkyrie]

I was able to watch a player throw the Destroyer on Granite Ridge last week. He was crushing it. It is super fast and wraith like but more stable.

Before I left Highbridge Saturday I was able to grab one. I went out today to throw it. It is super fast and pretty stable. I like it as a distance disc but don't have much control on it. I'll give more info as I throw it more.

[tacimala]

I liked mine a lot. Only threw it 3 times, but on the 3rd throw I put it 70 past a soccer field. I don't have enough throws in to know much about it, but I did like the D!