Super Class

[Bruce Brakel]

I don't know if any of you have been following the discussion on PDGA.com, but the only significant change in the 2009 PDGA format from the 2008 format is the addition of Super Class.  Super Class is a very simple concept: normal disc golf but with big diameter old fashioned discs, like ultimate discs and that innova disc that is shaped like a Polecat or Rattler but is as wide as a big frisbee.  What was that, a Condor?  A Zephyr? 

Chuck Kennedy, Barrett White and some other players talked the PDGA into making this a sanctionable tournament concept without having to get the X.  And I guess they will rate Super Class play but it would be a separate rating from your normal disc golf rating.

Barrett is hoping that it will get more Ultimate players to try out disc golf.  Maybe Chuck is just reliving his youth!  They are waiving the $10 fee for non-members for this, too. 

By next summer we'll be in the worst recession most of us have ever seen.  Either tournament attendance will go way up, because it is the only entertainment we can afford, or it will go down, because people cannot afford to play tournaments, either.  It's hard to say. 

If tournament attendance goes down, it would be fun to work this in somewhere.  I'd think we'd want to keep the entry fee low because there is not that much you can do for prizes in Super Class.  There are only a few discs in production that are Super Class eligible.  I asked Chuck if we could all play for cash and be Super Class pros but regular class ams, and he said he did not think that would work. 

Are there other readers out there who would want to play Super Class if we could work it into the schedule?  I always want to give a new idea a try. 

[pickax]

I'm up for it, though I don't think they put the Condor in the list:

List of super class discs as of 9/2/08.

Diam Rim Disc Model
27.5 2.0 Floater
27.5 2.0 Pulsar
27.5 2.2 Super Nova
27.3 2.0 Ultra-Star
27.2 1.9 The New Zealand Ultimate
27.1 2.0 Gamedisc
27.1 2.1 The Tool/T501 Mold
27.0 1.8 90 Mold
26.9 1.9 80 / 82 Molds
26.7 2.1 Sky Styler
26.4 2.0 Apple
25.9 1.8 50 Mold
25.5 1.8 Super Pro (60)
24.9 1.8 100 Mold
24.1 1.6 Sky Pro
24.1 1.7 Zephyr

Once you recover from your last buying binge, make sure you put some Zephyr's  in your spring order.

I wonder how speed of play would be for Super Class in a tourney setting.

[Bruce Brakel]

I think speed of play would be faster.  Where I see slow play i see a lot of staring at the target, fondling a disc, looking at the target again, fondling another disc, looking at the target again, waving around another disc.  When you only have two or three discs to choose from, play speeds up. 

I have never seen much relationship between speed of play and strokes taken.  Old guys play slow and children often play very fast no matter whast their scores are.  The other thing that slows down play is lost discs.  Its much harder to lose a big lid.  You didn't throw it very far and its the size of a Yaris. 

[stpitner]

I was asked to run one of these events last week ... I had never heard of it before.  I have no idea what the turnout would be though - perhaps semi-similar to an ace race.

The other change for 2009 that I noticed to be semi-significant was that if you're not a PDGA member and you pay that $10 fee, you're going to get a PDGA #, and you're also supposed to get a rule book.  Who is providing that rule book?  The TD or in the mail from the PDGA?  That's going to be CRAZY on the TD side.  You can't just ask if they have a current pdga number - I presume that they have to keep paying that $10 fee each time even though they have a number (you get a number but don't get ratings).  I read about this in the new 2009 tour standards guide.

[Tom McManus]

I'm up for it, though I don't think they put the Condor in the list:

List of super class discs as of 9/2/08.

Diam Rim Disc Model
27.5 2.0 Floater
27.5 2.0 Pulsar
27.5 2.2 Super Nova
27.3 2.0 Ultra-Star
27.2 1.9 The New Zealand Ultimate
27.1 2.0 Gamedisc
27.1 2.1 The Tool/T501 Mold
27.0 1.8 90 Mold
26.9 1.9 80 / 82 Molds
26.7 2.1 Sky Styler
26.4 2.0 Apple
25.9 1.8 50 Mold
25.5 1.8 Super Pro (60)
24.9 1.8 100 Mold
24.1 1.6 Sky Pro
24.1 1.7 Zephyr

Once you recover from your last buying binge, make sure you put some Zephyr's  in your spring order.

I wonder how speed of play would be for Super Class in a tourney setting.

It would be nice if they included 40 mold discs.  The old 119g frisbees.

[pickax]

The 40 mold is too small. One of the requirements for a disc to be super class approved, it has to be able to PDGA legal up to 200g.

[Jon Brakel]

I was asked to run one of these events last week ... I had never heard of it before.  I have no idea what the turnout would be though - perhaps semi-similar to an ace race.

The other change for 2009 that I noticed to be semi-significant was that if you're not a PDGA member and you pay that $10 fee, you're going to get a PDGA #, and you're also supposed to get a rule book.  Who is providing that rule book?  The TD or in the mail from the PDGA?  That's going to be CRAZY on the TD side.  You can't just ask if they have a current pdga number - I presume that they have to keep paying that $10 fee each time even though they have a number (you get a number but don't get ratings).  I read about this in the new 2009 tour standards guide.

I talked to David Gentry at Milwaukee Worlds about this. We had exchanged e-mails before that but he was very dismissive of the idea at the time. In person he listened to my complete thoughts better and I think I expressed myself better.

What I told him was that if non-pdga members were going to be paying $10 they ought to get something for the money. They should get their permanent pdga number and the pdga should track their rating and publish it on the spread sheet that they send to TDs so that TDs (and their elves) don't have to police the non-members on their own. My idea was that they would get a membership card with that pdga number but it would be like a red card or something that would stand out as a day-member card. Only the first time that they play a sanctioned tournament would the pdga send them a card. They wouldn't be obligated to take it to tournaments, TDs have the spreadsheet. But I haven't heard how they will actually implement it. It would be nice since this was my idea if they would have kept me in the loop on the implementation.

I'm interested in seeing what their take was on this. I have a few other points that I suggested but if I post them now it might just be disinformation if they aren't going to implement it like I suggested.

[Dan Michler]

I'm almost positive any Super Class events will be gigantic failures at drawing decent sized fields.  Ultimate frisbees are for catch.  I think the super-fast, long distance discs are a huge part of making disc golf more appealing to the masses and I just doubt there is really a solid niche for an old 'frisbee' style tournament.  

That being said, I would probably play a Super Class event if there was one very close to my house, and I would dominate it    I just wouldn't expect more than 15 people to show up.

[pickax]

Courses like Shorewood and West Park would probably be the best candidates for super class events around here. Would you get a huge crowds? Probably not because there is a saturation of well run tournaments in Illinois. If there weren't so many good tournaments being run around here, it might do better. Talking to Barrett last fall, she's not so sure how many Ultimate players would play super class mainly because a lot of her Ultimate friends think that disc golf is too slow.

[Chainmeister]

I'm up for it, though I don't think they put the Condor in the list:

List of super class discs as of 9/2/08.

Diam Rim Disc Model
27.5 2.0 Floater
27.5 2.0 Pulsar
27.5 2.2 Super Nova
27.3 2.0 Ultra-Star
27.2 1.9 The New Zealand Ultimate
27.1 2.0 Gamedisc
27.1 2.1 The Tool/T501 Mold
27.0 1.8 90 Mold
26.9 1.9 80 / 82 Molds
26.7 2.1 Sky Styler
26.4 2.0 Apple
25.9 1.8 50 Mold
25.5 1.8 Super Pro (60)
24.9 1.8 100 Mold
24.1 1.6 Sky Pro
24.1 1.7 Zephyr

Once you recover from your last buying binge, make sure you put some Zephyr's  in your spring order.

I wonder how speed of play would be for Super Class in a tourney setting.

isn't the 50 mold the Whammo moonlighter, original golf discs?  I have one of those and used it in a tournament at Gilsen Park  in the 70's.

I might do this once for the novelty but otherwise have to agree with Dan.

[Tom McManus]

David,

The 50 mold is typically known as the 141 G the 80 mold is the 165 G. When Wham-o was trying to increase the weights of the discs, they made them out of the glow in the dark plastic. It added a little weight and substance to them. You may have picked one up at Gillson Park when the NAS events were held there. If I remember correctly, the 100 mold disc was used for more of a free style disc it was the HDX . It was made out of the tougher plastic.

[stpitner]

heh - make it a Super Class speed round to accomodate the ultimate players

[OvEr HaNd AsSaSiN]

i agree with dan.. the sport of disc golf is moving towards long arm courses.. this would not work.. the people that play ultimate play the game for a reason, because they like to run alot and throw a disc..

[pickax]

What many of you may not be considering is that Super Class is not aimed at the current disc golfer. It is one way to expand the sport with a sub-discipline drawing in a different set of players and allowing some courses that may have been obsoleted to shine again.

[Bruce Brakel]

I think if I were to offer Super Class, I'd want to offer it at a split weekend tournament that does not already fill, and not as a stand alone event.  Then I could offer two or four Super Class divisions on the opposite day from the disc golf divisions. 

Chuck Kennedy says that he thinks his Super Class tournament is going to fill, but maybe he has a different pool of players.  And, he always thought Mid Nationals would be huge!  I agree with Michler that Super Class might draw 5 or 10 players per division. 

[pickax]

I think Chuck is getting a Super Class league started up in the twin cities. Getting that going would help establish a player base as opposed to advertising a super class event and having most people go "Huh?"

[airspuds]

i started playing with whamo 175 gram frisbees 1986 ish
at Oak Lawn (both courses pulled years ago)
and the original SIU course by the Rec
i did use a disc on the Siu course

by the time i played West Park I would say I had at least one disc

run as side event at nearest 9 hole course

aka lombard

[tacimala]

I think if I were to offer Super Class, I'd want to offer it at a split weekend tournament that does not already fill, and not as a stand alone event.  Then I could offer two or four Super Class divisions on the opposite day from the disc golf divisions. 

Chuck Kennedy says that he thinks his Super Class tournament is going to fill, but maybe he has a different pool of players.  And, he always thought Mid Nationals would be huge!  I agree with Michler that Super Class might draw 5 or 10 players per division. 

Wait wait wait, Chuck Kennedy has a different opinion than other people?

[Bruce Brakel]

New ideas always excite me, but sometimes after a couple of weeks they wear off.  Super Class is one of them.  The more I think about it, the more I see Super Class as the bizarro world answer to the Star Destroyer. 

Everyone wants the new hot disc so they can throw farther.  But if everyone can throw farther what have we gained?  Well, I've just sold 50 to 100 new hot discs, but other than that?  The appeal of Super Class is that now the guy who can throw so far, can't.  But if everyone can't, what have we gained?  I don't think I'm going to sell 50-100 Super Class discs.  We aren't living in bizarro world even if sometimes I see the world through bizarro world lenses. 

I bought ten Ultimate lids for IOS #6 and sold all of them, and I might buy more, but I don't want to have to stock another line of plastic.  If they start making Super Class discs, if I can get Condors or whatever is on that list, I'll get a few for those of you who might want to practice for Super Class Worlds.      

[Tafe Hemler]

Courses like Shorewood and West Park would probably be the best candidates for super class events around here. Would you get a huge crowds? Probably not because there is a saturation of well run tournaments in Illinois. If there weren't so many good tournaments being run around here, it might do better. Talking to Barrett last fall, she's not so sure how many Ultimate players would play super class mainly because a lot of her Ultimate friends think that disc golf is too slow.

I think with the Super Class, courses around here will become an entirely new challenge. West park was designed when these were THE discs.  It gets a little old watching -17's on 24 hole courses.  And if your finesse needs a little work, this is how to learn it.
In other words, I AM SOOO DOWN!!
I would think the tourneys should be on off weekends for the area, like the old one-disc challenge @ West Park.  If anyone ran a World's Biggest, I would think Super Class would be perfect for the newbie.  Especially since they could get them anywhere, and they wouldn't have spent $15 on the wrong disc.