2011 IOS Input Wanted

[CEValkyrie]

IOS players. We are seeking some input from frequenters of the IOS.

1. How much does the Am B-Tier influence you in attending an IOS? If the events were all changed to a C-Tier would you still attend? Nothing would change with the event except it would be a C-Tier instead of B-Tier.

2. If the entry fee was lowered from $30 to $25.
How would you feel about a $10 player pack insted of a $15 player pack?
or
How would you feel about a $15 player pack but the payout purse being reduced?
or
Do you care about a player pack? If it's a C-Tier a no player pack option is avaliable. The payout purse would be larger and there would be CTP's to shoot for.

3. Do you have any other input. We are always looking for reasonable ideas to increase the value and efficiency of the IOS.

[pdga#7648]

I don't mind if it's a B or C. I will attend, just because it is a Illinois Series. Being from Peoria, we only get 1 sanctioned event per year. Knowing there is an entire series just a few hours North, is enough to keep me coming back.
The player packs mean nothing to me, but the competition is what I come for, not the $15.00 player pack, although that is gauranteeing me at least 1 disc to add to my 200+ collection.


If I got the TD a place to stay for the weekend, could it be considered to have 1 event in this area? whether its, McNasty, Morton, Eureka, whatever. I don't have alot of room for a group, but 1 or 2 TD's may not be a problem. I know talk was brought up about this, and it sounded as if it was not possible, but just a little input. I know players here would appreciate it a ton.

Either way, A, B, or C, the IOS crew can count on me being there!!

[stpitner]

Doug,

I think that Peoria could be a very viable option, but obviously some initial legwork will have to be done to make any decisions there.  Stay tuned.

What if we did something like this: Upper divisions such as Advanced and Intermediate get no player pack and a much larger payout, but Rec and Novice - as some people are new and would like something for just showing up and sometimes don't expect to cash, still get a $15 player pack with reduced overall payouts?  I guess this would have to be C-Tier only since B-Tier requires player packs.

[KenGmoney1]

I think that B-Tier should continue. But the player pack and the payout could be eliminated or reduced if needed. I would still play the events even if there was no player pack and no payout.

I personally would like to see the event with a player pack for all ams but no payout for the ams.  That way everyone will get the same thing for paying no matter how good or bad they play.  It would be fair for everyone. This would also stop people from calling others sandbaggers cause it would not matter what division you play if you are Am. There would be no pile of plastic for the winner, no reason to get mad for missing that putt, or shanking a shot b/c someone was talking during your throw.  It would make everything more laid back. This would also encourage poeple to play open if they feel they are ready to move up.

I think it will be just as much fun to come out and play golf and socialize with everyone.  If someone wants plastic they can just buy it with the money that they saved on the entry fee.

[Stan the Blue Man]

well you can do a Pro/AM B/C tier event.  To me I do not mind where the system is at now $30 entry fee and a $15 player pack.  I wouldn't mind no Player pack and a $25 entry fee either, but I know that player love getting a player pack at least getting one disc if not competing well.  I would love to see the payout a little bigger since I am a player.   You guys try to do the best you can.  I will still be at the IOS.

[duain]

I would still attend if it were a C or B tier. if it were a C tier with no player pack, but more of a payout that's fine with me. the cost $25 or $30 doesn't matter, I come to play the courses and compete against people I only get see at IOS events. whatever is decided I'm sure it'll be another great year. 

[smyith]

i know i haven't played many IOS's of the last few years but ill add a lil input i guess.
-  i don't mind a $10 layer pack, i pretty much just pick up D challengers with mine so that covers it. I dont really like the idea of no players pack. if you have a bad day at least you walk away with something.
- i dont even look to see what teir an event is, so i could care less.
- could you have different entry fee options? like $30 gets you a $15 players back and $25 gets you $10 and $20 is no players pack?
- IOS #9 was the first IOS ive played in some time, if you guys keep up the speed of results you had there i will go back to playing IOS more often.

[Dan Michler]

Best option to get the highest attendance in my opinion:

Keep your entry at $30 and keep the $15 player pack (atleast you can get a disc with this).

B or C tier is not going to make a difference.  The touring advanced players (this is just a handful) might care about the points, but nobody else does.  Having no player pack and a larger payout sounds good on paper, but when you are a 935 rated advanced player or a 901 rated intermediate player, its not so great.  Your chances of cashing are diminished because you are at the bottom of your division skill-wise, so its nice to be guaranteed that 1 disc and not feel like you are making $30 donations every weekend.

I'm also down with Kenny's philosophy.  I think lowering the entry to $25, keeping the $15 player pack, and then cutting down the payouts across the board is a good idea.  At the end of the day, I'm there to compete, whether the prize is 3 discs or 10 discs, it does not affect my attitude towards the event or the amount of fun I have.  If you want to compete for more prizes, go play Pro.

As far as the efficiency of the tournaments:

It doesn't get much better than the IOS events, but things could always be improved.  I'm a very impatient person.  I wish the player meetings were a little bit shorter.  I wish the time between sending us out onto the course and the 2 minute warning was shorter.  I wish the 2 minute warning was more like 30 seconds.

If Scott had coupons for the player packs/payouts that could be redeemed at his online store, I think this would really speed up the 'cashing out' time and I think it would also help Scott get more cash sales online (your getting alot of people exposed to the online store, looking for stuff they want to buy, who would not have otherwise ever visited it).  This may not be realistic, but I figured I'd throw it out there.

Ratings have become massively popular and are the reason alot of players play PDGA sanctioned tournaments.  How about a bulletin board at tournament central that shows what score equaled an 800, 900, and 1000 rated round last year?  Maybe also include the IOS course record and rating.  At the lunch break, post the scores for 800, 900, and 1000 for the morning round.

[CESAROE]

The past couple of years I have played IOS, Iron Lion, Joliet, Rockford, and Wisconsin tournaments. All have various player pack/payout deals that differ quite a bit. I personally like having a 15 dollar players pack the best but I do like the variety of shirts, stickers, posters, minis, etc. that I have gathered. Although I prefer the IOS style $15.00 player pack- I do enjoy the fact that there are other player packs in other tourneys to keep things mixed up. As far as payouts go, the IOS is already very fair and generous in my opinion. I guess my opinion goes along with the old "not broke-don't fix" attitude. The IOS series is awesome and you guys always look to improve and expand on an already great series of events. Keep up the great work but please don't consider taking payouts from amateurs. What's the point of competing without a prize to shoot for- just my opinion.

[Bruce Brakel]

Down in Kentucky somewhere, Lexington, Bowling Green, I'm not sure, there is a merch guy that has a brick and mortar store.  He brings out a small portion of his merch to the tournament.  You can cash out from a limited selection at the tournament, or cash out later at the store.  He always opens up the store for a few hours after the tournament for out-of-town players who want the broader selection.  If Scott gets the brick and mortar store going, that's an idea that might make sense at some venues.

I think the current entry fee, player pack and payout structure is inexpensive enough and offers good value to the players.  Because there are three obelisk hunters in my family, we prefer a well attended am-scam B-tier comedy of errors over a well run generously paid C-tier.        It's why we go to the [anticipating the moderator's deletion of my post] every year we can.

[Chainmeister]

Speaking as a player I have no problem with the current set up of the IOS.  In general I play for all the reason's Kenny mentioned. Its fun and IOS puts on a good show.  I like getting a  player pack and like pickinjg up items if I cash (as a perrenially higher rated Novice that happens reasonably often.) However, I could live without both.  I have plenty of plastic and can buy some if I lose a disc I really need.  I wonder if having a few C tier tournaments run simillarly to the Club Tournament would work.  With the club tournament its free for AMs because the club picks up the cost of PDGA, insurance etc.  Pass this on.  Maybe its $10 or $15 for a trophy only tournament where we get no player pack, get rated and win nothing.  The Merch table can still be there but is making cash sales with no funny money floating around. 

That being said, if this is not a viable or attractive option, I am perfectly happy with something similar to the current operation.  If you opt to use a similar format but need to adapt I like Kenny and Dan's model of preserving the player pack and reducing the payouts.  Everybody likes to bring something home.

[goalkeeper19]

I'll chime in here and agree with Kenny and Dan's comments.  I'm a 915-920 golfer (for now) who only cashes occasionally, but still really enjoy the competition in Advanced.  There's always going to be a few 960-980 players who will tear it up, and those guys will typically have boxes upon boxes of merch discs anyway.  I think making the player pack more valuable than the payout would increase the number of people playing, playing up a division, and playing the game more for the fun of it than worrying about making money back.  Plus, who doesn't play better when the pressure's off anyway?

[damonshort]

I really like the idea of a $10 trophy-only no-player-pack tournament, but I don't think it would attract a lot of players. As long as a TO option was offered and the entry fee for a C-tier was reasonably reduced, I could do without a player pack anyhow.

The lower entry fee/lower payout model works for me too. Mostly, a return to trophy-only as a standard is what I'd most like to see. In the past I'd be able to play both days a lot of tournaments, but this year unless there was TO offered, that was out of the question for me and I imagine for others. (although with schedules and varioua injuries I couldn't have anyhow.)

[Tom McManus]

I am in agreement with Kenny and Dan. I would like to see a reduced entry fee and keep the player's pack, and reduce the payouts.   Amateur players, are supposed to be just that, playing for the fun of the game and the competition.  I also understand that the people who put on these events deserve some compensation for their efforts. It is a ton of work to put on these events, and it the same group of guys who do the majority of the work. It needs to be worth the time of the people putting on the events in order for them to continue.

There are a couple things that I really appreciate about the IOS that makes them stand out. 1. Scott has a wide selection of merchandise.  2. Jon and family do a great job with getting everyone on to the course and getting scores on line.  That is  a big bonus. 3. Mike does a great job of making sure people play in the right division. 4. Brett works hard at adding a couple of additional holes to make the disc golf experience last a little bit longer. 5. There is rarely any issues regarding course routing or who plays what tees.  This comes up quite often in some events that are on the other side of the border.

I do like the B tier over the C tier just because of the added points and B sounds better than C. I liked some of Dan's new ideas but those things are not going to change my disc golf experience when playing in a tourney.

[airspuds]

First Off >  Thanks to the IOS crew for running events.
When we play other events , we are always like "  ios runs much smoother "  " why cant they run it like ios ?"

1.Doesnt matter to me >  already played the worlds and unless it comes back close enough  (  one and done )
Not sure if any players in rec and novice care

2.  Leave entry fee at 30  and player pack at  15
I usually collect a couple 15  packs and then buy group of discs   (  online bucks would be nice , but brick and mortar would be great as you could collect several packs then load up )
If you bumb down to  25  next year and then back up the next , leave it as is, 30  doesnt break the bank  even in this economy

3.  i think you should be able to comp your volunteers with free rounds  4  spots
add one more hole  ( paper work nightmare I suspect ) 
if you volunteer all day sat free round sun
free sat round -  show up up sun to help all day

look for young energenic unemployed  inds
who live near the course


ive really enjoyed the many venues where the club has run events 

[kcunning]

The IOS crew runs the best tournaments in terms of efficiency and ease of operation.  Whatever you do don't change that.  Players appreciate that more than their player's pack I guarantee.  I like the player's pack, but could live without it.  If you do chuck it, I would recommend putting more incentives on the course and in the round.  Things like ctps, flight life, hot start, maybe a birdie bonus, like 2 bucks per birdie or something depending on the difficulty of the course.  Regardless, things that you earn on the course are more rewarding than being given back part of your entry fee to spend on discs. 

I personally wouldn't do away with payouts at the end.  For me the goal is to cash.  I don't do it very often so when I do it's that much sweeter.  It doesn't even matter how much I win just to feel like I played well enough to hit that percentage cut off line feels good.

People mentioned expansion of the IOS I think in another thread.  It might be a good idea to take your brand of disc golf tournament with the solid reputation that you've built up around Chicagoland and introduce to at least one city down state per year.  Like Peoria one year, Springfield the next, and so on.  When people see a great product, they'll be more likely to travel up north for the rest of the tournaments that are around here.

Keep up the good work.  I'll try to make more than two next year.

[nathan17]

i dont have any problem with the IOS set up!!! I was just curious as to if you guys could bring back the tournament at Lippold Park. in Crystal Lake.

[Dag]

1. Am B or C Tier?

How many Ams that play the IOS are concerned with points? Or for that matter, how many even know what the points are for? Seems to me that dropping events to C Tier would just open up options for the TD in how the event may be run.

2. Prize format

I don't understand player's packs save as a device to sell discs. In essence, I am committing to purchase a given amount of merchandise as requisite to enter an event. I understand the sentiment behind the "at least I get something" mentality but that something has been bought and paid for already, no free lunch here. I enjoy having a split of earned prizes between those awarded for overall score and those awarded for other objectives, such as divisional CTPs and so forth, as "kcunning" mentions above.

3. And...?

In an earlier thread, I expressed interest in seeing the IOS expanded beyond it's current geographic area with the dual goals of promoting the inclusion of a greater part of Illinois in the Illinois Open Series as well as enabling the utilization of a greater number of more challenging courses than those utilized for this year's series. I still believe this would greatly benefit the series though I've since learned that the issue is more complicated than I had initially envisioned. If the IOS can avoid the impression of unilateral decisions and actively engage local entities in a cooperative effort, I believe most of the hurdles barring expansion could be overcome.

[Dan Michler]

If the IOS can avoid the impression of unilateral decisions and actively engage local entities in a cooperative effort, I believe most of the hurdles barring expansion could be overcome.

My issue with this is:  If you are the one putting in the man-hours and taking on the financial risk of running a disc golf tournament, shouldn't you make 'unilateral decisions'?

[smyith]

If the IOS can avoid the impression of unilateral decisions and actively engage local entities in a cooperative effort, I believe most of the hurdles barring expansion could be overcome.

My issue with this is:  If you are the one putting in the man-hours and taking on the financial risk of running a disc golf tournament, shouldn't you make 'unilateral decisions'?

yes!

the fact that this is even an issue is appalling.