Course Design Tips

[ChrisE]

I go to school at Embry Riddle in Prescott Arizona, and just received the go ahead from the athletics department to begin to set up a course designon campus.  They have 9 portable baskets at the moment, and do not want to pay for a course designer.  They naturally want to keep costs at a minimum since disc golf has not really hit Arizona yet.  So I was asked to go through and come up with a design.  The area is going to be rolling hills terrain, with many bushes, but few trees, also no water of any sort would be permanent.  Does anyone have any suggestions of things I should keep an eye out for while designing the course?  I have looked at the course design guidelines on the pdga website, however was curious for any other input to make sure that the course is as good as it can be.  The interest still has to be proven before they will commit to the costs of putting everything in the ground, but the athletics department wants to see the course go in and be a top notch course eventually being 18 or 27 holes with no expenses spared.  So any input at all would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

[Jon Brakel]

I can tell you things that you don't want to hear but no one can give you tips on how to put in a top notch course. A top notch course needs a top notch designer. So what would it take to convince them that disc golf has already arrived in AZ? There have been permanent courses in Arizona for over 30 years. Top PDGA tournaments in Arizona every year.

I can tell you from experience living in the Chicago area that most courses that are thrown together by someone without any experience play like the baskets were thrown out of a helicopter and then tees were put in at about the distance that the person laying it out can throw.

You might want to go back to the athletic department and show them how many courses are in the state, the history of the sport in Arizona, how many PDGA members live in the state, etc. Your PDGA coordinator might be able to help you find experienced designers in your local area.

[ChrisE]

I will take a look at that and try to convince them.  I know it is in the state, but the courses in Flagstaff are closed all winter, the courses in the Phoenix and Tucson area are too hot to play most of the summer.  And there is only one course in the Prescott area, and it is a target based course with not a lot of variety.  They bought the baskets 4 years ago and just don't know what to do with them.  I will see if I can find any pdga members in the Prescott area, but the only club here shut down about 6 years ago and the majority of people playing on the local course are myself and other students here.  The reason they are asking me to set it up is due to the fact that I grew up in the Chicago area where there are numerous courses and I have played before and run a club on campus. 

[Jon Brakel]

At least try to find a variety of players to look at the design. Players with different abilities and styles can hopefully add some ideas. But I look at the redesign of fairfield park here in Illinois and I know that no one without a lot of experience could come up with a design like that. I know that I never could and I've seen a lot of courses over the last 30+ years. Take a look at the fairfield redesign in this forum. Maybe it will help inspire you.

[ChrisE]

Sounds like a good idea!  Ill take a look.  My plan is to get a large number of players from various areas to look at the first draft of the course, and play through it and edit as we go.  Thanks for the tip!

[Chainmeister]

As long as your are affilliated with a school there are non-disc golf resources at hand.  Is there a curriculum on enviornmental planning, landscape design, civil engineering or the like? Perhaps you can interest a prof in having a class work on designs as an assignment.  You can integrate their ideas with the disc golf ideas and you may come up with a real oasis on campus.

[CEValkyrie]

Here is my philosphy.

Ask them if they'd allow me to come in and install a wing on one of their airplanes that would be used later in the day. Ask them if they'd allow an amateur to come teach one of their engineering classes. Ask them if they'd have a volunteer rework the track.

[Jon Brakel]

Here is my philosphy.

Ask them if they'd allow me to come in and install a wing on one of their airplanes that would be used later in the day. Ask them if they'd allow an amateur to come teach one of their engineering classes. Ask them if they'd have a volunteer rework the track.

I like that Brett! Its an insult to the sport that they think that anyone can design a good disc golf course. Hey, get one of those guys from the booster club to design the new football stadium!

[ChrisE]

Well, having talked to the director of athletics, his exact words were, "with all else going on, a disc golf course is one of the lowest priorities, but I would like to see it happen.  However we can only get so much money since the administration will not distribute it without very clear cause.  Unless there is a huge interest among the students, no serious money can be spent."  

I only started this with the hopes of getting constructive tips for anything useful so that a course can be put in that will be enjoyed, and then the interest would be able to be shown so that in future more can be spent.  For now though, this is all I have available to me.  I would love to have a professional who is qualified in this area do the design, but it will not happen no matter how much I ask them for it.  At this point its either keep the baskets forever locked up behind the soccer field and have no course in the town, with the nearest being hidden in the mountains next to a ghost town, or get something in the ground.  Also having searched for pdga members in Prescott areas, none were active anymore.  So there is little hope of getting outside help from the community.  There is no disc golf community here yet.  This is how the sport can spread more.  The suggestion of asking a professor who does environmental analysis is a great idea, and I will work on that.  I have requested they hire a designer, they denied it, and basically precedence shows that if I turn in no potential design, no course will ever happen.  There are no designers with experience in this area, and the school isn't willing to hire one, this is all that is left for an option, so I simply hope for help from more experienced players on any tips. 

[pickax]

Chris, just give you perspective on the reactions you have received here. We have seen too many courses go in that are designed by park district staff or even "course designers" that really don't know what they are doing. These courses have safety issues, don't flow, miss design opportunities, and just don't play very well.

If you want to do it yourself, I'd recommend joining the disc golf course designers guild and spend a good amount of time learning from the materials that they have available.

[Jon Brakel]

OK, so if I were in your shoes I would probably try to take the task on myself as well. If this were in the Chicago area I'd just take a pass on it because we already have plenty of courses that are as bad as I could design!

Please do what Mike says above and join the disc golf designers guild. Learn all that you can and remember that your first attempt might not be your best so have a plan to re-design even after the course is in the ground. Go at it like it is a work in progress. So at first you might not want to add permanent tees or signs. If possible don't even put the baskets in the ground right away.

[CEValkyrie]

I don't want to discourage you from doing a course. Any course is better than no course. I'd search out your area for quality designers to help. Many will do it for free.

Some of my frustrations with courses.
Tees and baskets too close together.
Long walks to play bad holes.
The classic walk back hole--Play a hole then walk the length of the fairway backwards to play another hole in the same direction.
Repetitive shots and distances.
Lack of a true par 4 or 5 if possible.

Things I like to see.
Creativity
Good flow
Good mix of shots and distances.
Good balance left, right, straight.
Unique putting green.

[ChrisE]

Thanks everyone, Mike, I will definitely send some emails to the DGCD, work with them, and learn all I can from them as well.  I do understand where everyone is coming from, I have grown up in Grayslake.  And although I do not post on here often, I read the posts just about every day.  But its either this or no course will happen.  And I figure its better than having our athletic director do it himself, since he has never played a round in his life.  This will definitely be a work in progress too, since eventually the school wants it to be an 18 hole course, concrete tee pads, highest quality baskets, multiple baskets per hole, nice signs, basically the works, but until they can prove its worth it, money spent will be absolutely minimal.  They want what all clients want, top quality with no cost. 

And thanks Brett, I will keep each of those in mind while mapping it all out.  Also Jon, as for not putting baskets permanently in the ground right away, is there a good way to secure them temporarily?  Because that would be the perfect way to get a course in and able to be played a bit and prove the interest is there before the school finalizes how much they will spend.  They were worried about theft with leaving the baskets not permanently set.  If I can give them an alternative that would be great.  This is all really helpful, and I just want to do the best I can to make this a course that people will enjoy.  I know others have much more experience, and my connection to the disc golf world has been fairly limited to reading this forum and seeing what everyone here has to say about events.  That's why I started here seeking aid.  I have great respect for the members here and know I could learn a lot from the different opinions here. 

[Jon Brakel]

Chris, what kind of baskets are they? By not putting the baskets in right away I was thinking that you could flag the course first. Baskets are really only needed to putt out. You can play test drives and up shots without baskets. Also it is kind of a design approach. Instead of thinking about where to put your basket, think about where your landing zones will be. On a par three consider the best place for a tee and landing zone then think from there where will the player need to putt to. Its just one design approach that I've read about.