2013 IOS Ideas and Planning

[stpitner]

So I'm pretty much just cribbing off of Jon's post from last year.  I wanted to post and find out what people are thinking about how we can improve the IOS for 2013.  Mike and I have a fairly solid list of venues for next year that we would like to go to.  Right now if it all shakes out as I hope it is going to be a 7-event series instead of just 5.

We did have a couple adjustments this year such as the addition of Manhattan and Marengo as courses.  While the turnout was poor at both, hopefully everyone enjoyed those great courses, and we intend to go back next year.  One thing that we are definitely considering and will probably have happen is only single day tournaments for some of the venues that did not have as good of a turnout.  It costs a lot of money to set up for a single day and quite a bit more if it's a two day.  If only 25 people are going to show up each day I'd rather have a single day of 50.

We are also planning on getting the full series posted with dates and all courses reserved as early as possible.  It's not the easiest thing to do as I typically have to pay money up front in order to secure stuff (eg. Manhattan pavilion, all of the B/C-tier sanctioning at $75 per event).  The PDGA won't post the event until that sanctioning money is paid these days.



Anyway, here's what Jon posted last year, and all of these things still apply

- Entry fees. Should we lower them or keep them the same. If we lower them what changes do we make to payout, player pack and ctps? We considered everything from keeping the entry fee and payout structure the same to having an ultra low entry fee and no payouts or ctps and other hybrid options in between. We also discussed reducing entry fee by dropping to all amateur c tiers. The problem that we have with changing is that we don't have a marketing department to figure out if players would show up to alternative payout structured tournaments (unfortunately only a small percentage of players post on this forum). One suggestion was that we might try it and change back if no one shows up. If players want a reduced entry fee, larger player pack and reduced or no payout then why aren't more players playing trophy only? You get two out of three with that so I'd think more players would take that option.

- Venues. This will mostly be decided by what dates and deals we can get at each venue.

- Divisional splits - who plays on what day? We will probably keep this the same as it still works for our volunteer staff however we might move ALL pro divisions to Saturday.



So what would you like to see at the 2013 IOS?  Right now the 7 events would be 1 North, 2 Northwest, 1 West, 1 Southwest, and 2 South based on Chicago being the center.  I'm not ready to post all of the venues just yet

[Tom McManus]

Scott, Jon, Brett, and Mike- Thanks for running the IOS events this year. I was bummed about Manhattan, I was looking forward to playing, but like many  people, I wimped out.

For me, I like low entry fees, as an AM I don't care about winning a bunch of discs, having a players pack and playing for the competition is good for me.  I think more one day events would be nice.  It is always more exciting when there is a bigger turnout. There is more energy at the event. I like the CTPs, even more than bigger payouts, everyone has a chance at winning something, but that is just me. Regarding the tropy only, not sure why more people don't do it. If it was a choice between not playing at all or trophy only, that is what I would go with.

I am hoping for Manhattan again, it is a fun course, I would really like a tourney there.  Oswego will be great with concrete on the long tees. Hopefully Bevier will have nice tee pads on all the holes and maybe even a couple of new holes next year. It would be nice to have a one day event there.

There were  a bunch of Chicagoland events this year, I don't know how far attendance was down overall this year, but the competition to get players to come out was way up.

Thanks again for all the hard work.

[CEValkyrie]

I was throwing around the idea for the 1 day events only offering MPO, MA1,2,3, & 4. Any thoughts? Makes it easier for the TD running the event and more players in each division.

[Tom McManus]

I am fine with that.

[pickax]

It definitely makes it easier on the TD to offer only those divisions for a one day event.

Three thoughts on this:
a) We have a good (rowdy) crowd of regulars in the MG1 division. I'd like their feedback on this.
b) we could run a shadow MA5 division. When we pioneered the MA4 division prior to the PDGA adoption of it, we ran it ran it as a rated-member only shadow division for those with ratings 50 points less than the MA3 cap at the time. We could offer MA5 as an option for those rated < 800. This would offer a competitive division for some of those that typically play MG1, MS1, FW2, FW3, etc.
c) Would we need a Jr division as it doesn't require a $10 PDGA non-member fee?

[pickax]

The other thing we would need to consider if dropping some divisions for one day events is its effect on series trophies.

[damonshort]

It definitely makes it easier on the TD to offer only those divisions for a one day event.

Three thoughts on this:
a) We have a good (rowdy) crowd of regulars in the MG1 division. I'd like their feedback on this.

I'd be less inclined to play if there wasn't an old guys' division. It's often among the groups with the highest attendance, so I don't think I'm alone in that regard.

I also much prefer trophy-only - I've got more discs than I'll ever even give away - but I realize it's more paperwork for the TD.

The entry fees for IOS are already pretty reasonable (especially considering that most other places still have the tiered structure where it costs more to play Adv than Int, which is ridiculous when it's applied to MG1), but I'd be fine with an 'ultra-low' entry fee w/ no payout. I don't think it'll get much traction in the general player population though; too many people think they need to 'win' something.

It's a good idea to consider 1-day tournaments, esp. at the beginning or end of the season.

Thanks again for all the great work.

[Chris K]

I'm with Damon, old guys rule !! Did you guys figure out who won the divisions for 2012 ? I missed round barn cuz I'm a chicken, it might have cost me the ios for the year. I wish it would have been this weekend Oh well next year. 
Thanks for running the ios I know it's a lot of work.

Chris Kujawski

[countchunkula]

First off, a big thank you to everyone involved in running these events.  I always have a good time, whether I shoot well or not.  I didn't have a chance to play any IOS events this year due to becoming a dad, but I hope to get out more next year.

I currently reside in the "disc golf mecca" of Lombard, IL.  While I understand there are some issues preventing using Madison Meadows, could we try for a more centrally located venue.  All of the IOS's that I have played have been either south, west or north.  I understand that some park districts are easier to work with than others, but we have some newer venues (Hinsdale, West Chicago) that may work.

As a low rated player, MA5 sounds right up my alley.  Would there be something in place to prevent unrated players (with the skills to play MA2) from crushing the field?

Thanks again, and hope to see everyone on the course.
Kevin McGonigal

[stpitner]

Damon - trophy only is actually easier to do these days.  It's definitely easier than half in, so you can always feel free to sign up for that if you'd like.  I always make sure that it's available on the pre-reg list and you just have to ask for it at the tournament.

Would love to go back to Lombard, but I'm not quite in the mood yet to find out if they are willing to take tournaments back.  If there's someone that is interested in investigating this I'd appreciate the help.  I also doubt I could afford the pavilion.  Manhattan was expensive enough.

[pickax]

If we did a MA5 shadow division, it would only be open to rated PDGA members.

West Chicago is a great tournament course as it is laid out, but it lacks the 5 P's for running a good tournament:: Parking, Power, Pavilion, Pottys, and Pads.

[stpitner]

So here's some of the thoughts that I put in when weighing my options for a venue.  I'm going to look at just the ones that are in the centralized locations.  The restrictions are 18+ hole courses, south of I-90, north of I-55 (no further south than where 355 connects to it), no further west than Rt 31/Fox River, and anywhere towards Chicago.  That's the centralize location.

Here are the contenders:

- Hoffman Estates - bad parking (street only), short/poor course, large pedestrian hazard (like where people tend to fish).  Not going to run something there (although I have inquired in the past and they wanted people to park at a school and have players get shuttled over to the course)
- Streamwood - Wouldn't mind bringing something back here.  No Pavilion.  Small parking.  Turnout has been marginal.  Last time I was there it cost $5 per player to run an event there.  That's too expensive.  Would go back if the per player fee was less.
- Bartlett - No parking, limited bathroom, no pavilion, grass tees, and no power.  too wide open of a course.  Not going to run something there.
- Geneva - Would like to run something there.  I have not played it since they changed up some of the holes.  I would not want to run hole 10 as it is.  I did inquire about it for 2012, and they chose to go with someone else for an event there.  Might revisit it for 2013, but right now not sure.
- West Chicago - As Mike said, it lacks good parking, power, pavilion, potty, and pads.  Not going to go there until some more of those elements exist.
- Lombard - Would love to go back here, even if the pavilion costs and arm and a leg.  Worst case I set up somewhere else.  I just don't know if they want to have tournaments back there.  Might be pretty expensive and we would have to possibly charge a higher entry fee for course use fee.
- Hinsdale - I don't know enough about this course to know about running something here.  It needs better teepads, that much I know.  I don't know if they would be interested in tournament play.
- Summit - I don't think there's pavilion or power, not sure about potties either.  Not super thrilled with the course, and I'm not really all that interested in running something there.

That's pretty much it.  It's tough in that area!  There needs to be some more quality courses installed in that area in order to get an IOS out there I guess.

[airspuds]

You guys run the best events, keep it up !
  I concur with Damon :

I'd be less inclined to play if there wasn't an masters division .

I also much prefer trophy-only -  cost is one thing, as travel costs have increased, 

The entry fees for IOS are already pretty reasonable.

I'd be fine with an 'ultra-low' entry fee w/ no payout.

It's a good idea to consider 1-day tournaments, esp. at the beginning or end of the season.

I like that you have picked a variety of places to hold an event

[airspuds]

http://www.pdga.com/tournament_results/88580?s=413df4fbb328b6c1625ba4bf2920e32e

Played  10 T;s so far.
1  novice  , early in year, rating was crushed going in   ,   I dont see myself as a novice
7 Rec   ( be nice if they brought back   rec master division  )
2  adv master  ,  1 played  1  dnf   ( played due to scheduling )

I can play with any group.  I have even once played Pro  Open Master.  2010
I consider myself a pro novice master.
aka chucker donator (hehehe)
I usually have to schedule around events .
I concur with Damon;s , why is adv master higher price comment as well

[Case J]

As others have said, thanks IOS crew, you guys are the best of the best in the area IMO. 

I like the Entry Fee - Payout system currently in place with the trophy only option. 

I agree that some of the events should be changed to one day events.  Correct me if I am wrong, but the reason the 2 day format was created so the tournaments could accommodate more players. If you make some of the events one day and make the field smaller it would entice people to pre-reg in order to reserve themselves a spot.  I heard from multiple people that pre-reg was especially low this year.  I feel like the expanded field the IOS offers with 2 day events has put local players in the mindset that there will almost always be room to walk up the day of and play. 

I am speculating on venues, but I would make Round Barn, Oswego, and Sinnissippi (or courses of the like that always seem to draw a crowd barring poor weather [Round Barn this year]) 2 day events and make the rest just one day.  This can hopefully raise the intrinsic value of player slots in the one day events and force people to either commit early via pre-reg or run the risk of being turned away.

As a personal preference, if you do decide to run some one day events I would prefer to play on Saturdays opposed to Sundays.

One last biased request, my parents have both ask me to request a tournament at Jerricho Lake, and I always enjoy when my whole family is involved with the IOS's.

[pickax]

Case, thanks for the feedback. We appreciate it. Currently we are looking at a mix of 2 day and 1 day events next year.

I wish we could go back to Jericho Lake as it is a convenient location for us, but the park district has gotten more difficult to work with there.

[pdga#7648]

Summit is an awesome course for a tournament. alot of high scores possible with it's tightness! I had like a 9 stroke swing from 1st to 2nd round back in 2008. there was no pavilion, but I do recall potty's available.

[stpitner]

I think we can get similar results from Marengo as opposed to going to Summit, and we are going back to Marengo.

As it's playing out right now we're going to have 3 that are 2-days, and 4 that are single days.  Of those single days, 3 will be on a Saturday, and 1 on a Sunday.  We still have to lock in a couple of the later events, hopefully I can start posting all of the dates very soon!

[Jon Brakel]

Historically, the IOS went to split days long before it was needed for attendance reasons. The biggest reason was to allow all of our volunteer staff to play one day and work the tournament the other day. If we were doing that today with what we know now it would no longer be necessary. We can calculate payouts and ctps in a few minutes on a laptop. That was something that someone would have to actually sit down for an hour or two to do by hand...even with Bruce, the Human Calculator, Brakel to help! The PDGA also had a requirement when we started to post payouts by the end of the first round in a two round tourney. They no longer require that. So a TD can now run the payouts during lunch break.

[dana]

Bring back the Brass Cash!!!

Run more Pro B-tiers and change the current scheduled date for Sinnissippi.

In sounds like moving some events to 1 day makes sense.