Am IV for 2007

[mirth]

According to my prereg list, its 6 AM4 & 12 REC

[stpitner]

I wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few day-of registrations of only the rec division.  There were 46 overall people signed up in 2006 for the rec division, and a bunch of those players were not PDGA rated (meaning less of a chance that they could be qualified for Am IV).

You'll probably have at least 25-30 in rec, if not more.

[Jon Brakel]

The number of players >835 and <875 is so few that the actual PDGA recognized division is practically non-existant.

What is your source for that information?

[Chainmeister]

According to my prereg list, its 6 AM4 & 12 REC

From what I see there are 11 AM IV eliigibles on the list and I suspect that they may change  on the day of the event. They may not have figured out how to register for AMIV. This would mean that out of 18 players there may be 11 AM IV and 7 Rec out of the currently listed preregistered players.  I had told Mitch that I could win AM IV (ok, just stop laughing right now!) and he could beat me by 10 strokes and I could still take home more plastic than him. This does appear to be a possibility.

[Mitch]

According to my prereg list, its 6 AM4 & 12 REC

Well if that stat holds up, it's not as bad as I thought. Thanks Mirth!

[Mitch]

The number of players >835 and <875 is so few that the actual PDGA recognized division is practically non-existant.

What is your source for that information?

I am simply referring to the IOS #2 pre-reg list.

[mirth]

Bear in mind that my prereg list is only paid preregs taken by me & doesn't reflect all the players that have committed to being at the event. I'm sure both numbers will go up.

[stpitner]

I wouldn't mind seeing the two divisions wind up with the same number of players.  A lot of AM IV's probably would have played trophy only rec anyway, so it wouldn't have affected overall rec payout that much in the first place.  So far AM IV has proven to be a great thing

[Jon Brakel]

The number of players >835 and <875 is so few that the actual PDGA recognized division is practically non-existant.

What is your source for that information?

I am simply referring to the IOS #2 pre-reg list.

If you are going on pre-reg, it is going to skew toward AMIV in the pre-reg category. Most Rec players do not pre-reg but so far we have been seeing that most AMIV players do pre-reg. Why? Because they are active online. I've noticed that the more active online a person is the more likely they are to pre-reg. Most AMIV players heard about it here, online. Since we are the only TDs offering AMIV that I know of, it is not a well known division outside of this forum. I think at IOS #1 we did not have any walk-up AMIV players, they were all pre-regged.

[pickax]

Don't forget that AMIV is restricted to PDGA members with a low enough rating. All non-PDGA members, will play at least at Rec or higher. Last year at the Lombard IOS there were 21 of 46 that were not PDGA members in the Rec division. There will be plenty of people in the Recreational division come Sunday.

[Bruce Brakel]

Just to clarify things, AM IV is a sidebet for prizes for Recreational rated players rated below 835.  It is not a separate division, yet.  On the TD report they are trophy-only Rec players who got in on the free Am IV trophy sidegame by indicating their trophy preference, and who got in on the sidebet if they paid the extra $10.  For purposes of PDGA statistics, including PDGA Worlds points and PDGA ratings, you are all Recreational players.  You'll be comingled in the official stats.

If you run through the list of Am IV sidebetters at Lombard, Pitner, Barrish, the Brakels, and Krupicka were all trophy-only players in Rec last year.  Three players played trophy-only in Am IV so they would have been TO in Rec.  I think the other three didn't play many tournaments last year, but if they knew about the trophy-only situation at IOS tournaments, it seems doubtful they'd be in for prizes in Rec.

I'm quite certain that offering the Am IV sidebet makes it much more likely that these lower rated PDGA members will play our tournaments, and it does not take anything away from the players who get in for the Rec payout.  To the contrary, players like Pitner, Barrish and Krupicka will now have more reasons to work at improving their game and are likely to quickly play their way out of Am IV.  I know at least three of these players have been practicing more and getting pointers from higher skilled players.  [I'm not sure about Barrish!]  So the Am IV concept works to encourage these players to be the future of the Recreational division. 

There is really no reason not to have Am V and Am VI, for that matter, and for awhile the PDGA had a format that worked just like that with color designated divisions.  We already have these divisions but we restrict participation to women.  The Am IV women are proving that a women's 800 rating means the same thing as a men's 800 rating.  They may have different strengths and weaknesses as players, but they can all compete and have fun together.  Diana is having a blast competing at the top of the group with Barrish, Pitner and Krupicka. 

[Chainmeister]

Diana is having a blast competing at the top of the group with Barrish, Pitner and Krupicka. 

I think the feeling was mutual.  We had a very delightful afternoon.  We are in Am IV so we all have holes in our game.  However, we are all getting better having fun doing it.  I was also pleased to break my Brakel curse.  I had never played very well when on a card with any Brakel.  Before the round I told them that I always played well with Krupicka and poorly with Diana.  I think I might be Krupicka's evil omen.  He always seems to play better when I am not around.  Mike, lets remedy that in Crystal Lake.

[pickax]

One of the good things about AMIV for me is I get a chance at learning how to play on a lead card. I had a good first round Sunday and thought I could improve on it. I didn't and dropped back to 4th place. Scott, Dave and Diana, I look forward to going head to head again with yall at Crystal Lake. I will not let that happen again. 

Bruce is right, if he wasn't offering AMIV, I would only be playing trophy only.

(Dave, I have your clipboard)

[Classic_ROCer]

I'm quite certain that offering the Am IV sidebet makes it much more likely that these lower rated PDGA members will play our tournaments, and it does not take anything away from the players who get in for the Rec payout.

The only thing that I feel could be modified is that a new player that doesn't have a PDGA rating yet, like myself, should still be able to compete in AM IV.  I understand that a new & talented player could show up without a rating & blow everybody out of the water, but what are the chances?

[Mukey]

I'm quite certain that offering the Am IV sidebet makes it much more likely that these lower rated PDGA members will play our tournaments, and it does not take anything away from the players who get in for the Rec payout.

The only thing that I feel could be modified is that a new player that doesn't have a PDGA rating yet, like myself, should still be able to compete in AM IV.  I understand that a new & talented player could show up without a rating & blow everybody out of the water, but what are the chances?

Just take a look at the regular Rec division. It usually will have a few unrated players who WILL blow everyone out of the water. Heck even in Intermediate.The way AM IV is set up, its for people who maybe wouldn't be that competitive in Rec, yet with this they still play for prizes & not just "donate" to the Rec division. If you let unrated people into AM IV, then you defeat the purpose.

[Bruce Brakel]

I would be fine with granting case-by-case waivers into the Am IV division for PDGA members who are waiting on their first rating.  The next ratings come out the day after Cryztal Cruise.  Post a name and PDGA number and I'll look at your stats or refer it to the elves. 

But non-members, no.  We're trying to show the PDGA that Am IV will get people to join if the PDGA makes the division member-only. 

[Classic_ROCer]

I would be fine with granting case-by-case waivers into the Am IV division for PDGA members who are waiting on their first rating.  The next ratings come out the day after Cryztal Cruise.  Post a name and PDGA number and I'll look at your stats or refer it to the elves. 

But non-members, no.  We're trying to show the PDGA that Am IV will get people to join if the PDGA makes the division member-only. 

Thanks, Bruce.  Here's my info:

Jason Hall
PDGA# 30947

It would be nice to participate in AM IV for Cryztal Cruise like I did for Kenosha.  Not trying to say that I'm going to dazzle anybody, but at least I can be competitive. 

[Jon Brakel]

We're trying to show the PDGA that Am IV will get people to join if the PDGA makes the division member-only. 

Personally I'd like to see all of the ratings protected divisions be reserved for PDGA members only. Non-members could play any division on Saturday (our upper day) that their age allows them to play, i.e. Advanced, Advanced Masters, etc and Open. We could make a division called something like "Amateur" that we could offer on the lower day for those non-members who have lower rated friends that they want to go with.

It doesn't make any sense to me to say to members you can't play "X" division because your rating is too high but a non-member can play whatever they want. If they did that with age divisions the Masters would have a problem with that. "Ummm, this dude is obviously only 20 years old, he can't play Masters." "Yes" replies the TD "but he's a non-member so the age limit doesn't apply to him!" 

[Bruce Brakel]

We'll see how Jason's IOS 2 scores rate, but I think we could give him a waiver into Am IV for Crystal Lake. 

[pickax]

The AMIV division is probably going to be the most tightly contested division. At Rockford, there was a three way tie for first, with the a two others one throw behind them. Hopefully no one gets bumped in the August update as the series points are close too.