Am IV for 2007

[Bruce Brakel]

Am 4 is going just as I foresaw, to paraphrase that Star Wars bad guy.  Players get better when they have someone to compete against other than their mother.  And their mother gets better too!     If it also works for Pitner, Barrish, Krupicka, [and their mothers], so much the better. 

Am IV is the 2007 experiment that will stick, but I keep hearing rumors of a PDGA approved Am 4 in 2008 so maybe we can just go with the flow there instead of kicking at the pricks [so to speak]. 

Meanwhile, the preregistration discount experiment is on the skids.  We aren't getting any pre-reg out of that, but it sure makes doing the accounting for each tournament a big pain in the bundt cake.  I spent about 30 minutes Sunday trying to figure out how many Rec players were which of the eight different flavors of Rec player we now have, Trophy-only or Full, III or IV and pre-reg or day of.   Arrrrghhhh! 

But getting back on topic, now that you Am 4s are enjoying the competition and not viewing Am IV as the ghetto division, do you want to be grouped together for the morning round or do you want to go with the theory that you might get to play with better players if you get mixed in with the Recs?  Sunday there were as many worse as there were better.  I'm not saying you'll get what you want, but it is possible you might. 

[mirth]

Perhaps the discount isn't high enough?

[J.R.]

Meanwhile, the preregistration discount experiment is on the skids.  We aren't getting any pre-reg out of that, but it sure makes doing the accounting for each tournament a big pain in the bundt cake.  I spent about 30 minutes Sunday trying to figure out how many Rec players were which of the eight different flavors of Rec player we now have, Trophy-only or Full, III or IV and pre-reg or day of.   Arrrrghhhh! 

Gotta agree with Mirth. After the Paypal fee (I'm never around to do it at any other events) it's only $2 bucks less.  I pre reg because at least in theory it makes things easier for you guys and it's nice to walk up day of and just do the speed lane check in.  But the $2 discount is a very small motivating factor for me.

[stpitner]

2 things:

1) prereg - I agree with Jay.  For pre-registration I really like to register online, but when you throw in paypal fee, then it's almost not worth it.  I would have preregistered Keith and myself this past Sunday, except my excuse was not knowing about baby.  If there was more of a difference between online registration versus day-of registration, I think you'd get more registrations.  Perhaps if you had a "if you register prior to 2 weeks before the event you get $7 discount and if you pre-register after that it's only a $5 discount" or something like that... added incentive for the really early birds (which I know is always appreciated!)

2) I'd rather be grouped randomly with am iv and rec in the morning round UNLESS Am IV gets bigger.  As much as I don't mind throwing with the fellow Am IV's, it prevents meeting a lot of other people.  No question we should be grouped with other AM IV's for the 2nd round so that we have a good knowledge of how things are shaping up for the final scores.

[pickax]

On the prereg- If the PDGA would a) add the AMIV division, and b) recognize that some do play trophy only in all of the divisions and fix their stupid spreadsheet, then you are back down to just whether or not they pre-reg'd. I, for one, take advantage of the pre-registration and hand a check to Brett at each IOS for the next one. No paypal fees, no stamps, just a smile from Brett. If pre-reg was at least $5 after paypal fees, you may get more people taking you up on it.

I enjoy playing with the AMIV crew and look forward to the second round with Dave and Diana (and hopefully Scott next time), but I like the mix in the morning round as it gives me a chance to play with others out there. If AMIV gets bigger, than grouping AMIV by themselves is cool too. I guess I really don't care. The Rec players are not better enough that I learn from them. I have shot variety and creativity in getting out of the schule. My biggest problems are trying too hard to throw and putting lapses.

[Jon Brakel]

We can't do a graduated scale of discounts because that just means more entry fees to account for when figuring out payouts, etc. on the day of the tournament. The only way we could do that is if we had power for the laptop and had everything in a calculating spread sheet. And even then we'd be screwed if there was  power failure or a problem with the computer.

Obviously a price break doesn't make a difference to most people. Last year it was more expensive to pre-reg online (because of the paypal fee) than it was to register on the day of. We're getting about the same amount of pre-reg.

[stpitner]

Were there any stats looked at comparing # of pre-reg vs. total number that showed up for the day?  I've noticed that attendance has unfortunately been down at almost all of the tournaments this year (except Crystal Lake Sunday), and I'm curious if there's say... 30 people that pre-reg'd for Sunday Rockford with 67 people playing (45% pre-registered) whereas maybe last year it was still 30 pre-registrations but there were 82 people playing Sunday at Rockford in 2006 (37%).

So maybe if it was analyzed that way it would help reveal some more information?  It has been an interesting year for disc golf, that's for sure.

[Bruce Brakel]

I think the lower attendance this year is a bunch of things:  Last year a lot of players were playing more tournaments to get a Worlds invitation.  This year a lot of players are practicing for Worlds and saving some spending money for Worlds, so they are playing fewer tournaments.  Also, I don't think we have promoted as well this year.  And I think ace pools rolling over were helpful last year too. 

[stpitner]

I didn't think about the Worlds aspect, but yeah, all the other items you mentioned have definitely come to my mind about why attendance might be lower.

Just need to start bringing more new players to the sport and get them to start going to tournaments   I was one of the newbies last year

[Chainmeister]

Pre reg issue- some folks live in a cash world.  preregistering usually means using a credit card or writing a check.  I don't pre reg because of the $2 savings. I do it bcause it makes the morning a litle easier.  Its like having an I-pass. I have been a bit baffled by the lower attendance this year.  People still need points for Kalamazoo!  I think the ace pool comment is on target.  For a lot of people the ace pool is a big draw. Everybody wanted a share of tteh $750 last year.  For an Ace virgin like me its not a real big deal. I throw in my money because I know I will hit one the time I decide not to bother. 

Am Iv grouping- either -or- whatever. On the one hand we have a nice group and have enjoyed playing with each other.  On the other hand, it gets a little incestous.  Its nice to meet new people.  Whatever you do somebody will complain.  I won't be one of them.

[Bruce Brakel]

Pre reg issue- some folks live in a cash world.  preregistering usually means using a credit card or writing a check.  I don't pre reg because of the $2 savings. I do it bcause it makes the morning a litle easier.  Its like having an I-pass. I have been a bit baffled by the lower attendance this year.  People still need points for Kalamazoo!  

I don't think there is anyone in Illinois even thinking about Kalamazoo, except maybe you.  Illinois players don't even know where Kalamazoo is.  I know because they've asked me if they can stay at my place if they go to Worlds in Kalamazoo and I have to tell them that their place is closer to Kalamazoo than my place!    

[stpitner]

make sure to raise your right hand and show them on the map where Kalamazoo is compared to where you live

I went to college in Flint, I'm familiar with the map

[Mukey]

I don't think there is anyone in Illinois even thinking about Kalamazoo, except maybe you.  Illinois players don't even know where Kalamazoo is.  I know because they've asked me if they can stay at my place if they go to Worlds in Kalamazoo and I have to tell them that their place is closer to Kalamazoo than my place!    

Actually, Waterford is a whopping 20 minuntes closer (according to GoogleMaps) than Downers Grove   

[CEValkyrie]

First, having 174 players per event is pretty darn big. That is where we are at right now after 4 events. We'll see what happens at the last 2 events. There are tons of events around the country that would love to have that many people. Drawing an average of 187 players per event last year was insane.


Reasons in which I believe attendance is down.
1. Economincs (Gas)
2. Ace Pool has not rolled over
3. More local tournies to play. Players are staying closer to home.
4. Many of the players that were playing both days last year are now only able to play Saturday due to rating.
5. Worlds points (I see about 40 of the IOS crowd playing Am Worlds this year)
6. Worlds-Players are cutting back to play that event.
7. Scheduling. I didn't realize 07-07-07 was such a wedding day and that the weekend after the 4th of July is when people would celebrate. It was also only 2 weeks after Crystal Lake but we didnt' have many options with Am & Pro Worlds.

[Bruce Brakel]

July 4 weekend is traditionally a bad weekend to schedule a tournament.  This year there were two half-bad July 4 weekends to choose from.  Next year let's not schedule on the July 4 weekend.  It is a leap year so July 4 will leap forward from Wednesday to Friday. 

I'm fine with our attendance.  Crystal Lake was over the top on the lower day.  Aurora should be fine too.  As our Intermediates move up to Advanced, attendance will improve on the upper day. 

[Jon Brakel]

I can almost guarantee that our attendance in Aurora will be up from last year. Last year was our first year in Aurora and I don't think we had ace money coming into that tournament. This year we have some rollover ace money and the second year should be bigger. The player base in Aurora has grown which will help also.

Overall I think we will see an attendance bump from this year to next. There are still players finding out that we run good tournaments. There was a LOT of worlds hype last year that got many players out to our tournaments to get points. One thing that we need to work on is keeping flyers up at the courses where the events will be. It is difficult as most flyers get taken down on a weekly if not daily basis. But flyers at the course is where the next generation of Rec players come from and the Rec players turn into Intermediate players and so on. Speaking of which is there anyone that can put up a flyer in Aurora and try to keep it up? Do we have anyone on this board that lives or works near the course?

[Tom McManus]

Aaron Scott will be happy to help out. Fox Metro Discer.  He volunteered on Saturday to help out with Aurora.  He said that they are planning to fix up the course prior to the tourney and he said anything else we needed he would try and help out.

[Fox Metro Discer]

I would definately be more than happy to do anything you guys need for Aurora's tourney. Just let me know.
As stated above, we will be holding a cleanup day prior to the tournament as well. I will also be able to help with anything on Sunday as I can no longer play on the lower level days. I may even be able to walk the course as I may let my 5 year old play in his first tournament. He just needs to learn to follow the rules a bit better between now and then.

[Jon Brakel]

Cool! Can you print and post this flyer at the course? If you can't print them let me know and we'll get some printed ones to you. This is an Aurora specific flyer in that Aurora is in larger font.

[pickax]

Getting this thread back to the AMIV division. How many series trophies will there be for AMIV? It's not currently posted on brasscash.com