Lake County Forest Preserve

[stpitner]

ok, then my comments were in regards to that one specific committee

[Classic_ROCer]

Guys,

I heard on the radio yesterday that the Lake County Forest Preserve Park District is moving to reclaim a significant amount land, to the tune of about $41,893,700. 

What does this mean for the implementation of a championship calibur disc golf course?  Does it help in terms of more land to choose from, or hurt due to spending?

[Classic_ROCer]

I mean to post a link...
http://www.lcfpd.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.details&intObjectId=26060

[DiscGolfSchodt]

Guys,

I heard on the radio yesterday that the Lake County Forest Preserve Park District is moving to reclaim a significant amount land, to the tune of about $41,893,700. 

Thats just $41,893,700 in land that they wont use for disc golf. Mabey another dog park or a radio controlled airplane space. That is all LCFP land is good for

[Classic_ROCer]

Anyone heard any new news about this?

[spuds]

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=203585&src=3

Get ready for a never-ending group of people asking us for more land," committee leader Carol Calabresa said before the group's vote. "We're going to feel the pressure more and more."


isnt that their job to provide services, how do they know what services to provide unless someone asks ?

cant they see that this sport is can produce revenue similar to ball golf

what a joke

these people actually get paid to make decisions

my dog is smarter

[CEValkyrie]

Just another low blow to Lake County Disc Golf.

Please send an e-mail to the board.
smountsier@co.lake.il.us, pnewton@co.lake.il.us, abassi@co.lake.il.us, scarlson@co.lake.il.us, tdouglass@co.lake.il.us, anixon@co.lake.il.us, rwhitmore@co.lake.il.us, amaine@co.lake.il.us, dokelly@co.lake.il.us, sschmidt@co.lake.il.us, akyle@co.lake.il.us, lleafblad@co.lake.il.us, mtalbett@co.lake.il.us, ccalabresa@co.lake.il.us, sgravenhorst@co.lake.il.us, mcunningham@co.lake.il.us, jmartini@co.lake.il.us, bpaxton@co.lake.il.us, rpowers@co.lake.il.us, bsabonjian@co.lake.il.us, cspielman@co.lake.il.us, dstolman@co.lake.il.us, bcarter@co.lake.il.us

[Bruce Brakel]

Grow the sport.  They'll come to you when they are ready. 

[Dave242]

What forest preserves do you guys have your eyes on......if the door ever opens.  I'm moving to Lake Forest from Charlotte, NC next month and have been looking around at where new and better courses on the east side of the county might be able to go.  Glad I found this thread and see the work you guys have done to get on the radar, but very sad to see that latest decision. 

There are some HUGE things happening here (not announced yet) that only happened when we worked with very high levels of the decision makers.

[CEValkyrie]

The Four Winds Golf Course purchased last fall by the LCFPD is ready for a course. It would be ideal.

Until there are new board members voted in that support disc golf there will never be disc golf there.

[Dave242]

An old golf course would seem to be the lowest hanging fruit as far as getting a dic golf course into Forest Preserve land.  Cutting fairways into forests will understandably evoke all sorts of protests from naturalists......they're trying to preserve the forests.  I can understand those objections, but the "if we let the disc golfers in, we have to let everyone in" argument sounds more like laziness than leadership.

If they had an environmental impact statement or something along those lines, that would allow low-impact sports and recreation to come in, and keep others out.  List the amount of grading, tree cutting, pesticides, herbicides, etc allowed and soccer fields would not happen, but walking trails and mountain bike trails could.....as could disc golf (if the statement was not too stringent). 

I'll be on board to help out lobbying for the leaders to lead when I get in town.

[Tom McManus]

An old golf course would seem to be the lowest hanging fruit as far as getting a dic golf course into Forest Preserve land.  Cutting fairways into forests will understandably evoke all sorts of protests from naturalists......they're trying to preserve the forests.  I can understand those objections, but the "if we let the disc golfers in, we have to let everyone in" argument sounds more like laziness than leadership.

If they had an environmental impact statement or something along those lines, that would allow low-impact sports and recreation to come in, and keep others out.  List the amount of grading, tree cutting, pesticides, herbicides, etc allowed and soccer fields would not happen, but walking trails and mountain bike trails could.....as could disc golf (if the statement was not too stringent). 

I'll be on board to help out lobbying for the leaders to lead when I get in town.

Thanks for the good ideas and for the offer of help.

[Working Stiff]

If they had an environmental impact statement or something along those lines, that would allow low-impact sports and recreation to come in, and keep others out.  List the amount of grading, tree cutting, pesticides, herbicides, etc allowed and soccer fields would not happen, but walking trails and mountain bike trails could.....as could disc golf (if the statement was not too stringent).

One of the problems our sport has been avoiding is erosion and soil compaction.  Because our courses often cut through wooded areas in defiance of normal rules for trail development (looking for the killer shot, don't ya know) we often create compacted soil and erosion issues that lead to dead trees and damaged landscapes.  Then we bitch when the trees get cut down.  It's not so bad around here due to the fact that our land is so flat, but I've been in other areas where the traffic from a disc golf course has devastated the landscape.  Unfortunately, completing the necessary environmental impact studies and landscaping to prevent erosion takes away that "cheap to install" designation for course development we like to talk about.  I read about a District in the Kansas City area that did complete the studies and planned landscaping, and their course development estimates were over $50,000 for an 18-hole course. 

Anyway given the damage I've seen in other areas from disc golf, somebody who was against disc golf could put together a pretty good argument that disc golf is very damaging to the environment.  We might need the PDGA to really take the lead and get us some good data to fend off a good argument like this.   

[DiscGolfSchodt]

There are some HUGE things happening here (not announced yet) that only happened when we worked with very high levels of the decision makers.

[Jon Brakel]

All you have to do to avoid soil compression is to aerate the soil once or twice per year. The Buffalo Grove Park District used to aerate Willow Stream at least once per year. Since I don't play that course every day like I used to I don't know if they still do that. Aerating the soil is pretty inexpensive. It costs about the same as mowing the course once plus the cost of the aerator attachment but the PD already has ball fields, they probably already have the aerator.

[Working Stiff]

All you have to do to avoid soil compression is to aerate the soil once or twice per year. The Buffalo Grove Park District used to aerate Willow Stream at least once per year. Since I don't play that course every day like I used to I don't know if they still do that. Aerating the soil is pretty inexpensive. It costs about the same as mowing the course once plus the cost of the aerator attachment but the PD already has ball fields, they probably already have the aerator.

Umm...you could not aerate the courses I'm thinking of...heavily wooded, little ground cover, lots of elevation changes...aerating would just loosen the soil and make it more likely to erode.  Courses like those need to be designed for proper drainage, and the landscaping needed to do that can make the cost of a disc golf course soar.

Like I said, not such an issue here.  Most of the courses here are flat and open.  They are not going to have extreme erosion problems unless that land is neglected by the park district.  So it's the bright side of having nothing but flat courses...no need for expensive landscaping. 

Anyway I was just thinking that depending on the kind of land you are talking about, I would not take for granted that a disc golf course would come out of an environmental impact study smelling like roses.  A lot of issues could be raised about the potential damage to the site.  Here is an article I saw from Washington:
http://www.enterprisenewspapers.com/article/20080603/ETP03/716337765/-1/ETPZoneLT&template=ETPZoneLTart
I could see some tree-hugger making a similar stink here over these issues, and the Forest Preserve would be listening a lot closer to them than your average Park District would.

[Chainmeister]

I read Brett's post last week and read the article in the Herald. It appeared to me that the Board declined to green light disc golf in part because they feared that allowing disc golf would encourage other groups to apply to use land and in part due to old fashioned NIMBYism (Not in My Back Yard).  Given that the current Board is not going to do us any favor I figured I would let them know their jobs since they don't seem to understand their job. I sent them all the following e-mail last week:

Dear Board members

I am a Cook County resident. I am not one of your constituents.  However, I often have business in Lake County.  I have clients, relatives, friends and colleagues who live in Lake County.  My family often dines, shops, and enjoys recreational and cultural activities in Lake County.  I am a member of a Lake County based club, DisContinuum, that holds its league at Bevier Park in Waukegan, Illinois.

I am writing to ask you to reconsider the Planning and Restoration Committee's decision to forego building a disc golf course in the Lake County Forest Preserve. I have written to members on prior occasions explaining the benefits of disc golf. I have already written to explain that the game is enjoyed by an unusually wide age range of people. Men, women, boys and girls all play disc golf.  I am 50 and have played with older and younger players. I have already written to many of you explaining that disc golf is a very green activity that leaves the forest preserve in as good a condition after play as before play. The game has a minimal effect on the environment.  I have already written explaining that the game is in accord with the mission of any park or forest preserve district in bringing citizens to the land and getting them to participate in a healthy activity. You are all aware of those facts.

I understand that you have a very understandable concern that if you allow one activity you will then set a precedent for other groups to claim the use of Forest Preserve land. I read an article to this effect in the Daily Herald.  If disc golfers get a foothold in the Lake County Forest Preserve, they will be followed by dog walkers, soccer enthusiasts, baseball players and others desirous of using the forest preserve. I understand that you have a legitimate concern about policies that may lead to new struggles to control the resources in your domain.

I think these concerns are legitimate. However, those same concerns would be a prudent basis for denying any usage of the lands in the Lake County Forest Preserve.  Certainly the lands are intended for public use.  The preserve is not a museum but an active, living area. You are not protecting the land in a way that we look to protect rain forests, the Petrified Forest and other areas that would be permanently destroyed with too much public use. Your mission calls for public use. I am certain, that within reason, you all intend for Boy Scouts to hike the woods and perhaps even set up camp in appropriate areas. I am sure that you intend for local fisherman to drop their hooks in approved places at approved times. Bird watchers are expected. Groups expect to be able to obtain permits to have picnics in designated areas. 

Your job is to make the difficult decisions regarding appropriate and non-appropriate use.  Would building a soccer field be too much of an interruption of the natural splendor of the forest? That is your decision. A baseball field? Again, a difficult decision that is appropriate for you.  Obviously, you want to minimize roads in the forest. However, you have to build some roads to allow service personnel into the forest to keep it clean and safe. Accordingly, with all due respect, I feel that you should look at the merits of the disc golf proposal.  It is inappropriate to reject the proposal with a "slippery slope" argument-- allowing disc golf will open the door to other groups asking for land use.  Groups should ask for land use and  the Board needs to make decisions regarding that use. 

On the merits, disc golf is a very good match for the Lake County Forest Preserve. I, and others, have already outlined the positive impact that disc golf would have on the Lake County Forest Preserve.  I will not rehash those points here. Also, bear in mind that the course that has been proposed would not be an ordinary, park district type course. The proposal calls for a championship caliber course that would bring the most serious players from all over the country to Lake County. The plan is to make the beautiful Lake County Forest Preserve a showpiece for disc golf and for the area.  The plan intends to bring a course that would attract National and World championship events to Lake County. 

As your neighbors to the south in Chicago try to bring the Olympic Games to the area in 2016 I dream that the Professional Disc Golf Association (PDGA) would hold a world championship event at a course in the Lake County Forest Preserve contemporaneous with those games and world attention, the right kind of attention, will be brought to Lake County.  This dream can become a reality and you hold the key to making the first step.  Please reconsider your position. Thank you.

[mirth]

Nice letter!

[Dzwicke]

Been reading up on the LCFP $185m referendum today.  I've been clinging to thread of hope that if it passes might help our cause of getting a course installed on land ideally sutied for the game.  But then I saw this survey result on their website:

"The survey also showed that people didn't support constructing a disc golf course on Forest Preserve property (only a 3.8 out of 10 rating), confirming a recent decision by a Forest Preserve Committee to leave provision of disc golf courses to park districts and other local park and recreation agencies."

http://www.lcfpd.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.details&intObjectId=26543

Anyone know about this survey?  I wish I did, and I know a lot of people that would have supported it had they known about it.  I hope we get a second chance and they do the same survey next year.

[mirth]

What I find amusing about the survey is the sample size..... How are 617 people's views an accurate representation of the 710,000+ residents of the county?